Creation vs. Evolution

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alwight

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In the fundamentalist Christian mind, lying for God is acceptable. Because for them the goal of converting people outweighs and therefore justifies the means by which they do it. If you will just speak their magical incantation with your lips you will be saved. It is as simple as that for them. And however they accomplish that is thought of as good.
Yes fundies are clearly compelled to adhere rigidly to the commandments, meaning that bearing false witness against their neighbours is forbidden rather than not simply bearing false witness. God is perhaps the only possible entity that they can lie about, or for, without, in their minds, risking damnation. :)
 

noguru

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Yes fundies are clearly compelled to adhere rigidly to the commandments, meaning that bearing false witness against their neighbours is forbidden rather than not simply bearing false witness. God is perhaps the only possible entity that they can lie about or for without risking damnation. :)

Yes, they sacrifice the spirit of the law for the letter of the law. Regardless of the fact that lying about anything is ultimately lying either to or about their neighbors. There is quite a bit of overlap there. So much so that upon careful analysis the two appear identical. Is not the natural world and what science actually reports a part of, or at least a factor, quite relevant to their neighbor.

Oh and they do not feel they risk damnation. Because from their own lips they have already uttered the magical incantation that they believe saves them. That is especially true if they are MAD.

But I assure you that none will understand this. They will move along as if this reality were not really there at all. I do suspect that they are wearing blinders that insulate them from rigorous self analysis.

I can hear Stripe now, whining about "evidence" and that "evolutionists" hate it. :rotfl:
 

alwight

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Yes, they sacrifice the spirit of the law for the letter of the law. Regardless of the fact that lying about anything is ultimately lying either to or about their neighbors. There is quite a bit of overlap there. So much so that upon careful analysis the two appear identical. Is not the natural world and what science actually reports a part of, or at least a factor, quite relevant to their neighbor.
One aspect of fundamentalism is not to think for yourself, simply obey to the letter. That of course leaves no scope to regard Genesis in an allegorical way and six days is six days of 24 hours, come hell or high water. ;)
 

noguru

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One aspect of fundamentalism is not to think for yourself, simply obey to the letter. That of course leaves no scope to regard Genesis in an allegorical way and six days is six days of 24 hours, come hell or high water. ;)

Oh they admit there is figurative speech in Genesis. As long as that "figurative speech" does not contradict the chronology that Bishop Ussher published.
 

Stripe

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Stripe, Stripe, Stripe. I am honored that you quoted me. But as often, you quotemined by putting in a period where there was none before, therefore changing the meaning of my little sentence. I am not surprised. You lie and misrepresent. I must assume that you believe your god thinks that is wonderful, that lying is OK when done for your deity. But it brings nothing but scorn on the both of you. You should be ashamed but you are not. Says something about your understanding of the real world and your god as well. Perhaps in your world misrepresenting is not the same as lying. Maybe there is a different Biblical definition for "lie" as you claim there is for "repentance".
I feel confident that with time and counseling, you'll get over it. :thumb:

One aspect of fundamentalism is not to think for yourself, simply obey to the letter. That of course leaves no scope to regard Genesis in an allegorical way and six days is six days of 24 hours, come hell or high water. ;)
Nope. Fundamentalism means to stick with the fundamentals. The Bible says "six days." When you can show that this is impossible, you will have something with which to accuse.
 

Jonahdog

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Stripe: Perhaps the real issue is whether or not you will ever accept rational thought. I guess anything is possible. Let us know when you determine that misrepresenting others is wrong. Until then I will just expect you to continue to do as you do and lie for your deity. Unless of course you can cite a Bible verse that suggests what you do is pleasing to your deity.
 

Stripe

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And Stipe has retreated to the bunker, again.
Meanwhile, the Bible says "six days." Your insistence on "billions of years" puts you at odds with God's word.

Stripe: Perhaps the real issue is whether or not you will ever accept rational thought. I guess anything is possible. Let us know when you determine that misrepresenting others is wrong. Until then I will just expect you to continue to do as you do and lie for your deity. Unless of course you can cite a Bible verse that suggests what you do is pleasing to your deity.
:mock: Morons
 

noguru

Well-known member
Better to stand for something than be wishy washy though, eh? :)

Standing for accuracy in all things as much as is humanly possible is standing for something. It is not wise to just take a stand "willy nilly" because of a whim. There should a rational reason why we stand for something and accuracy is a cornerstone of clearly understanding any issue.
 

alwight

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Nope. Fundamentalism means to stick with the fundamentals. The Bible says "six days." When you can show that this is impossible, you will have something with which to accuse.
My accusation is that any ancient scripture can be deemed as infallible and adhered to if empirical evidence can always be dismissed should it ever seem to contradict it.
No ancient scripture is evidence of itself, it is only evidence that someone once wrote something.
Science otoh suggests that a whole variety of complimentary evidence based conclusions indicates that a particular chain of events occurred and an old Earth timescale. Which for fundamentalists simply gets automatically trumped by their unquestioning belief in an ancient scripture, as compiled for the first Christian Roman emperor.
 

Kdall

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We know. :)

We know. :wave2:

Meanwhile, the Bible says "six days." You say: "billions of years." When you've chosen one of those mutually exclusive positions, you might be able to join a rational discussion.

:wave2:

I think you're a living soundboard
 

The Barbarian

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Stipe has learned that coming out and trying to form a cogent argument is beyond his ability. So mostly, he just hides in the bunker chanting his mantras and tossing insults.

It's interesting to see if one can draw him out to try to make an argument, but mostly he's comic relief, these days.
 

DavisBJ

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Yes... agree.*

The test method IS accurate...we know how fast C-13 decays. But we don't know the ratio of C13/14 pre-flood. We don't know if C14 *existed in creation. False assumptions about the past would make extrapolated C14 dates false also.*
I think you and I have fundamentally different understandings of some aspects of Carbon dating. Specifically, you mention “how fast C-13 decays”. It doesn’t. It is stable. (And relatively rare as compared to C-12, abundant as compared to C-14).

Likewise when speaking of the original C13/C14 ratios – that particular ratio is not much of an issue in Carbon dating. The initial C12/C14 ratio is much more important, and I suspect that is what you meant to say. Before I respond to the question of these initial abundances, I want to make sure we are in agreement on what isotopes of Carbon we need to be concerned with.
 

DavisBJ

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Yes... agree.*

The test method IS accurate...we know how fast C-13 decays. But we don't know the ratio of C13/14 pre-flood. We don't know if C14 *existed in creation. False assumptions about the past would make extrapolated C14 dates false also.*
BTW, I often see asterisks at various places in your posts, such as the ones after “agree.”, “C14 “, and “also.” Are those significant, or are they just an artifact of some software quirk as your posts flow from your computer to mine?
 

DavisBJ

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I''m sure there are other things besides an atom smasher. Like an explosion.

Michael

:guitar:
This is an example of why it is a bit frustrating communicating with you, Michael. Several days ago I authored a moderately long post showing that the energies released in powerful high explosives involve nothing more than energy changes associated with the orbiting electrons in the atoms. In a couple of posts since then I have had to point that out again as you suggested ways that decay rates might be corrupted. But no, here you are again, right back at square one, as though I had not explained it at all. This is a pretty clear indication that presenting you with detailed scientific explanations is a fruitless waste of both of our times. I guess I can hope that the broader readership of this thread reaps the understanding that you have failed to garner. Anyway, I am going to scale back my efforts to try to give you a scientific understanding of some of the issues that arise in this thread.
 
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