Creation vs. Evolution

[alwight]

Dear Alwight,

That's why I was trying to say that the Lord God put into man's mind to call it the Milky Way. Also, there is evidently some starting point that the Universe is expanding from outwards, right? Do you know what I mean here? You just don't know?

Astrophysics suggests that our universe seems to have begun from a singularity over 14 Billion years ago Michael. I don't know about any more than that, there could be an infinite number of universes or maybe this one is all there is, or was, or will be, who knows, I don't. :idunno:
I'm sure that the writers of ancient scripture had far less understanding than we do today.

Al, I've had some astronomy already and am doing fine. No astrophysics though. And the ancient scriptures were not written by and for Middle Eastern goat herders. The first five books of the Bible were written by Moses, who was considered royalty before He rebelled against being an Egyptian, realizing later that he was a Hebrew Israelite. He was very much a scholar. Regardless of that, a person that God speaks to can write down anything because if he is writing it down for God, then God makes him able to write it down. Don't fret about that.

To A Very Dear Friend Indeed,

Michael

atrol:

:angel:

You can believe what you will Michael but a baby supposedly being found in rushes and raised in a royal household has all the elements required perhaps for a very fine fantasy tale to spin around the goat herder's camp fire.
However, Moses clearly wasn't around for the beginning of time, even if he was around at all, and not just a mythical story too. People can create whatever stories they like, it doesn't make them true, even if written into an ancient scripture. :nono:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Do you have a problem with the ancient profession of goat herding?

Hi Noguru,

It's been too long!! A few days or week now? How ARE YOU DOIN'!! I was just going to put out a call for all my friends that I used to hear from, like gcthomas, The Barbarian, etc. What in the hell ever happened to STUU??!! I miss him a lot too!! You GUYS/GIRLS!! This is the CREATION vs. EVOLUTION site. So where in the heck are you? It's like you all quit believing in Evolution and have quit being an atheist? Or perhaps you did find God and you don't want to share it here? Have you heard that the Muslims have gotten over a million Bibles because they want to learn about Christianity. They hunger for it. I think it's because they realize that their Islam is failing and certainly not the answer. Okay, I will get going!! I know I'm a pain. Sometimes the truth hurts. I've been on the receiving end too, of course. Also, nothing against Goat Herding. Thanks for searching for the truth. We've got that in common!!

God Bless You All And Give You Something To Think About,

Enlarge Your Heart!

Michael

atrol:

:noway: :angel:

 

[noguru]

Hi Noguru,

It's been too long!! A few days or week now? How ARE YOU DOIN'!! I was just going to put out a call for all my friends that I used to hear from, like gcthomas, The Barbarian, etc. What in the hell ever happened to STUU??!! I miss him a lot too!! You GUYS/GIRLS!! This is the CREATION vs. EVOLUTION site. So where in the heck are you? It's like you all quit believing in Evolution and have quit being an atheist? Or perhaps you did find God and you don't want to share it here? Have you heard that the Muslims have gotten over a million Bibles because they want to learn about Christianity. They hunger for it. I think it's because they realize that their Islam is failing and certainly not the answer. Okay, I will get going!! I know I'm a pain. Sometimes the truth hurts. I've been on the receiving end too, of course. Also, nothing against Goat Herding. Thanks for searching for the truth. We've got that in common!!

God Bless You All And Give You Something To Think About,

Enlarge Your Heart!

Michael

atrol:

:noway: :angel:

Any human philosophy without the redemption/forgiveness offered by Jesus is an incomplete human philosophy. It is a broken circle, and it does not allow for progress and the enlargement of a spiritual understanding.

I have never denied this. I still accept the evidence in science that supports the current model of origins. If only you would practice the philosophy offered by Jesus and learn a little more about science, the things that use to baffle you would become intuitively clear.

 

[6days]

Astrophysics suggests that our universe seems to have begun from a singularity over 14 Billion years ago Michael.

Astrophysics suggests nothing actually.
People interpret evidence according to belief systems, worldviews and more. There are physicists, astrophysicists, astronomers etc who interpret evidence saying our universe is about 6,000 years old.

 

[Balfour4]

Astrophysics suggests nothing actually.
People interpret evidence according to belief systems, worldviews and more. There are physicists, astrophysicists, astronomers etc who interpret evidence saying our universe is about 6,000 years old.

The speed of light is what these measurements are made from. Light can be bent slightly by gravity, but these bends are negligible compared to the billions of years that it took to get to our eyes. The speed of light is not a belief system. It is a measured constant quantity.

No more false assertions. You post peer-reviewed data or the opinions of highly respected astrophysicists/astronomers saying that you are right, or back off. Nothing about this should threaten your faith unless your faith hangs by a thread. Christians like you will say the world is flat if the Bible tells them to. Wake up! God gave you the ability to seek truth. By refusing to do so you insult Him and all His creation

 

[Jonahdog]

Astrophysics suggests nothing actually.
People interpret evidence according to belief systems, worldviews and more. There are physicists, astrophysicists, astronomers etc who interpret evidence saying our universe is about 6,000 years old.

Are those people are?

 

[6days]

Are those people are?

no they am.

 

[noguru]

The speed of light is what these measurements are made from. Light can be bent slightly by gravity, but these bends are negligible compared to the billions of years that it took to get to our eyes. The speed of light is not a belief system. It is a measured constant quantity.

No more false assertions. You post peer-reviewed data or the opinions of highly respected astrophysicists/astronomers saying that you are right, or back off. Nothing about this should threaten your faith unless your faith hangs by a thread. Christians like you will say the world is flat if the Bible tells them to. Wake up! God gave you the ability to seek truth. By refusing to do so you insult Him and all His creation

You are wasting your time. 6days is impervious to reality/logic.

 

[The Barbarian]

Astrophysics suggests nothing actually.

The evidence on which it is based, suggests a very ancient universe that began with a sudden expansion of space.

People interpret evidence according to belief systems, worldviews and more.

The postmodernist notion that reality is whatever we make it out to be, never had much going for it. And the corollary that humans can't make rational decisions based on evidence is clearly false. We can, even if most people don't.

There are physicists, astrophysicists, astronomers etc who interpret evidence saying our universe is about 6,000 years old.

All of them with a predetermined belief that it is only 6,000 years old, even some scientists. But not very many of them; the evidence is so compelling, few of them are willing to contradict it.



As I said, not everyone goes with the evidence.

 

[6days]

The speed of light is what these measurements are made from.

Yes

Light can be bent slightly by gravity, but these bends are negligible compared to the billions of years that it took to get to our eyes.

It didn't take billions.... That's a belief.

The speed of light is not a belief system. It is a measured constant quantity.

Yes

You post peer-reviewed data or the opinions of highly respected astrophysicists/astronomers saying that you are right, or back off.

Galileo didn't back off. Neither should astrophysicists like Lisle or astronomers like Hartnett

Nothing about this should threaten your faith unless your faith hangs by a thread.

Your beliefs don't threaten my faith

Christians like you will say the world is flat if the Bible tells them to.

If God's Word said the earth was flat... it would be.
However the oldest book in the Bible calls it a sphere / circle.

 

[Jonahdog]

no they am.

Damn, my fingers appear a little faster than my brain.

But can you provide a list of those astronomers, etc., who interpret the evidence so that the universe is 6000 +/- years old. Thanks

 

[Jonahdog]

However the oldest book in the Bible calls it a sphere / circle.

Does it call it a sphere or a circle?

 

[noguru]

Does it call it a sphere or a circle?

It calls it a circle because their understanding of geometry was on par with their understanding of science back then. However, 6days will admit that science and geometry was in its infancy back then, though he/she will not allow for the implications and ramifications in regard to how Genesis deals with the science of origins.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Was one of the miracles a frontal lobotomy without leaving a trace of the surgery on your face?

Dear noguru,

No, I have no problem with Middle Eastern goat herders. You give me a chuckle!! Thanks!! I don't need a frontal lobotomy. How about you? Noguru, many of the prophets in the past have had the Lord speak to them. So if it happens to me, why should you think I need a frontal lobotomy? It is written that two witnesses shall come before Armageddon and they shall prophecy or share their testimony (testify of what they've seen and HEARD). See Rev. 11:3KJV. What do you think? Study that verse for a long time. Check out the whole chapter, tbh. Did John the Baptist need a frontal lobotomy to proselytize his testimony? How about Isaiah, Daniel, John of Patmos? Now noguru, you are a Christian, right? You are a Christian who believes in evolution, right? But you don't believe the Creation story in the Bible. Why don't you believe in God's Word. I say that any changing/evolution is done by God's tweaking with His creations, including plants, animals, and mankind, and the Universe.

I missed you Buddy!! May God Be In Your Thoughts,

Michael

atrol: :angel:

 

[everready]

Evolution A Pagan Belief

Evolution A Pagan Belief

Evolution: an ancient pagan idea

While studying ancient history at University, I came across the pagan beliefs about origins. It was this study that caused me first to question evolution and the vast ages given for the Universe. It was later, after many years of scientific investigation, that I finally broke free from a liberal understanding that sought to harmonise naturalism with biblical Christian faith.

As I read the works of the Greek philosophers, who lived between about 600–100BC, I was amazed to discover primitive evolutionary theory and vast ages long before Darwin and modern assumptions. The fragments of Anaximander (c. 610–546 BC) taught that ‘humans originally resembled another type of animal, namely fish.1 There was Democritus (c.460–370BC) who taught that primitive people began to speak with ‘confused’ and ‘unintelligible’ sounds but ‘gradually they articulated words.’2 Epicurus (341–270BC) taught that there was no need of a God or gods, for the Universe came about by a chance movement of atoms.3

After them, the Roman naturalist Pliny the Elder (AD23–79) said, ‘ … we are so subject to chance that Chance herself takes the place of God; she proves that God is uncertain.4

Concerning the great ages of the Universe, Plato and many Greek philosophers held to the view that this present Universe came about millions of years ago. Lactantius, writing in the fourth century AD, said:

‘Plato and many others of the philosophers, since they were ignorant of the origin of all things, and of that primal period at which the world was made, said that many thousands of ages had passed since this beautiful arrangement of the world was completed … ’.5 (An ‘age’ here is 1,000 years.)

http://creation.com/evolution-ancient-pagan-idea

everready

 

[everready]

The evidence on which it is based, suggests a very ancient universe that began with a sudden expansion of space.



The postmodernist notion that reality is whatever we make it out to be, never had much going for it. And the corollary that humans can't make rational decisions based on evidence is clearly false. We can, even if most people don't.



All of them with a predetermined belief that it is only 6,000 years old, even some scientists. But not very many of them; the evidence is so compelling, few of them are willing to contradict it.



As I said, not everyone goes with the evidence.

Its true not everyone goes with the evidence according to the evolutionist, they choose to believe Gods evidence instead.

The wisdom of man, Gods wisdom, your choice.

everready

 

[MichaelCadry]

The speed of light is what these measurements are made from. Light can be bent slightly by gravity, but these bends are negligible compared to the billions of years that it took to get to our eyes. The speed of light is not a belief system. It is a measured constant quantity.

No more false assertions. You post peer-reviewed data or the opinions of highly respected astrophysicists/astronomers saying that you are right, or back off. Nothing about this should threaten your faith unless your faith hangs by a thread. Christians like you will say the world is flat if the Bible tells them to. Wake up! God gave you the ability to seek truth. By refusing to do so you insult Him and all His creation

Dear Balfour,

Does it not say in the Bible that during Armageddon, the constellations shall not give their light and that they shall fall from heaven, and that the plague of hail was exceedingly great, each stone the weight of a talent? See Rev. 16:21KJV, Isaiah 13:10KJV and Rev. 6:13KJV, "And the stars of heaven shall fall to the Earth." Now if it takes their light tons of years to reach us, how much more the stars of heaven. How close is the closest star to us?? You don't realize that our Universe might not seem as you think it does. How in the world will the stars fall to the Earth without taking tons of years to reach us? How do you know that there isn't a veil that you know nothing about?

Michael

:angel: :angel:

 

[MichaelCadry]

The evidence on which it is based, suggests a very ancient universe that began with a sudden expansion of space.

The postmodernist notion that reality is whatever we make it out to be, never had much going for it. And the corollary that humans can't make rational decisions based on evidence is clearly false. We can, even if most people don't.

All of them with a predetermined belief that it is only 6,000 years old, even some scientists. But not very many of them; the evidence is so compelling, few of them are willing to contradict it.

As I said, not everyone goes with the evidence.

Dear The Barbarian,

Wow! So where have you been hiding all this time? I figured you were just tired of posting. You must know that, with God, everything is possible. If He can have stars fall from heaven in a matter of a few days or so, what do you think about what He can do?

The stars falling to the earth shall break up when entering the earth's atmosphere. Thus, large hail will result. Each one, about the weight of a talent. The weight of a talent at the time that Revelation was written was way heavier than now. See Rev. 16:21KJV. C what happens with our future.

Good To Hear From You!! May God Be With You,

Michael

:cheers:

:angel:

 

[noguru]

Dear noguru,

No, I have no problem with Middle Eastern goat herders. You give me a chuckle!! Thanks!! I don't need a frontal lobotomy. How about you? Noguru, many of the prophets in the past have had the Lord speak to them. So if it happens to me, why should you think I need a frontal lobotomy? It is written that two witnesses shall come before Armageddon and they shall prophecy or share their testimony (testify of what they've seen and HEARD). See Rev. 11:3KJV. What do you think? Study that verse for a long time. Check out the whole chapter, tbh. Did John the Baptist need a frontal lobotomy to proselytize his testimony? How about Isaiah, Daniel, John of Patmos? Now noguru, you are a Christian, right? You are a Christian who believes in evolution, right? But you don't believe the Creation story in the Bible. Why don't you believe in God's Word. I say that any changing/evolution is done by God's tweaking with His creations, including plants, animals, and mankind, and the Universe.

I missed you Buddy!! May God Be In Your Thoughts,

Michael

atrol: :angel:

Michael I am going to try and explain this one more time to those of you who seem to have difficulty understanding. Genesis is an account of the origins of monotheism as it applies to the Judaic culture. It weaves real events with figurative language. The figurative language is especially used when covering scientific detail that was beyond the current vocabulary of the people who had the revelations and wrote them down. You need to take into account the cultural context of the literature, just as we do with all of written history.

99% of scholars do not have a difficulty understanding this. It is only when people like you and 6days who are in over your head. and try to force your personal agenda, which is wrought with personal insecurity, on others that we get a confused version of history.

A message cannot exceed the quality of the messenger. In fact it is limited to the quality of the messenger.

This is why no one who is reasonable listens to you, people like 6days and everready in regard to any of history. We can all read the Bible and history for ourselves and it is quite clear that we should view anything you, 6days, or evverready says with extreme caution.

atrol: :angel:

 

[alwight]

Astrophysics suggests nothing actually.
People interpret evidence according to belief systems, worldviews and more. There are physicists, astrophysicists, astronomers etc who interpret evidence saying our universe is about 6,000 years old.

I know what it suggests to me 6days which is if we rationally backtrack the current astrophysics using the observable facts, a singularity can indeed be inferred to have existed over 14 billion years ago.
If otoh some choose instead to presume miraculous events occurred in order to somewhat arrange things to fit with a more Biblical timeline then I personally see no reason for doing any such thing without evidence and based apparently in only an ancient scripture.