Creation vs. Evolution II

[MichaelCadry]

Michael, may I ask why they were banned? I didn't see any "trolling" out of them

It is quite intricate, Greg. Hedshaker and Silent Hunter wouldn't STOP FIGHTING for starters!! And mocking! It was very disturbing. And Hedshaker felt it was okay to put me on ignore, but it was wrong if I addressed him if he mentioned my name again in a post. If he wants to talk about me, then I should be able to address him. And Silent Hunter was doing most of the mocking, saying that I couldn't stop the fighting when I said that I could. And I don't want to keep talking about it all any longer. And I'm tired of saying "And."

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

I'm have no issue with the existence of God. I lean in neither direction there, and that has no bearing on whether evolution happens or doesn't.

I have seen the evidence myself. Not on computers, not in classrooms, but out there in person with knowledgable individuals explaining what this and that means geologically.

I know that since you likely haven't been walked through the evidence like I have that you think it's a bunch of guesswork, but you really couldn't be more wrong. The facts are that rock layers tell you a story, and if you know what to look for that story can be pretty detailed.

How do you think we look for oil?


And yes, our understanding of evolution has certainly helped us scientifically/technologically. We know that we have to create a new flu vaccine every year because it evolves at an insanely rapid pace. We've seen the rise of "super bugs" that result from natural selection in bacteria such as staphylococcus, making the surviving MRSA species much harder to kill

Dear Greg Jennings,

It doesn't evolve, frankly. God changes it a bit each time. It serves His purpose that a lot of us have to undergo certain things, bad with the good. It might seem bad, but it clears your body of unwanted mucus, helping to clean out your lungs, and bronchial tubes and alveoli, etc. Even if it is just because it is full of dust and virus. But it is harder on those with breathing difficulties, caused by certain issues like smoking, or very dusty environments. God changes it through genomes, and nuclei and protons, etc. If you aren't cleaned out once or twice a year, at the very least, then you will develop the inability to breathe any more. It can be especially rough on those who have prior issues, and could lead to pneumonia. Even, in some cases, where people did certain bad habits by choosing to do things that aggravate it like smoking, working in coal mines, etc. The antivirus vaccine still lets you get sick, but not as hard or as long.

Michael

 

[gcthomas]

No, you just obfuscated and with an incredible amount of dishonest distraction, it at least seems at this time. I've read about public AND private schools in the UK. Should I believe your [mis?]information over them? Seriously? Your government is so insecure that it demands Christian Schools and other free institutions NOT teach creation as a fact?

That isn't true. You should be wary of taking your beliefs from a partial reading of newspaper articles.

To put you straight: there are plenty of Christian schools that teach Christian doctrine as fact. I work in one such school that holds daily services and Eucharistic services weekly, and my children attend another. But what they do not do, and they have no wish to, is to teach Christian Creationism as if it was a genuine science.

British state schools are free to promote religion, unlike in the US. Incidentally, free schools are just state schools, not privates ones.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear All,

I really don't want to post here anymore. You are free to post to each other as much as you like. It may help you learn and grow. Once in a while, I will visit. The thread is too hard on me to keep up with. For one thing, it takes tons of brain cells to be on a thread, because it takes a lot of brain cells to read every post, paragraph and sentences. I know we have almost unlimited brain cells, but if you have used as many as I have, you tend to use more than the amount of brain cells that you would like to. You don't understand, probably, but whatever. I've been through miraculous events that take many brain cells to undergo, deal with it all, and share it with others, over and over, and over again. I'm quite tired of it all, and need a break. Much Love To You All !! I will keep in touch. I know we've got almost limitless brain cells, but trust me when I say that I've used too many. I wrote a book too and it had to be rewritten 7 times and that includes reading it carefully and rooting out mistakes, etc. You all just probably won't understand. I have to fight with the devil every minute of the day. He's on my butt all of the time because he knows that he has a short time to beat on me or overcome me. Well, that ain't gonna happen. Also, do you realize how many brain cells you have to use to have a Thread as long as I had here? It takes tons of brain cells to attend to all of the posts in a thread. I venture somewhere else because of that. To you all, Thanks!

I Love You All, Along With God's Purposes For You, And His And Jesus' Love For You,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

That isn't true. You should be wary of taking your beliefs from a partial reading of newspaper articles.

To put you straight: there are plenty of Christian schools that teach Christian doctrine as fact. I work in one such school that holds daily services and Eucharistic services weekly, and my children attend another. But what they do not do, and they have no wish to, is to teach Christian Creationism as if it was a genuine science.

British state schools are free to promote religion, unlike in the US. Incidentally, free schools are just state schools, not privates ones.

Dear gcthomas,

No wonder you are so hard to pin down or figure out!! I always could not tell if you were an atheist or what. So you work in a religious school and your children attend another? Is this TRUE? You shock me. I think it is so cool!! I knew there was something different about you. That's why I kept urging you to post when you would stop posting on this thread. Maybe I'm being a bit presumptuous. Awesome!!

Cheerio Indeed, Matey!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Super Brain --"Mutation of Human Genome Two Million Years Ago Created the Big Leap That Led To Speaking and Thinking"


http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2016/12/evolutions-super-brain-mutation-of-the-human-genome-two-million-years-ago-created-big-leap-in-neocor.html

It's not true, but whatever you say!

Michael

 

[Caino]

Yes Caino, But Do You Love The Holy Ghost??!! And No, I don't believe Life Evolved Over Time!! You place limits on Our God, and you don't know Him at All!!

Michael

Yes, I love all manifestations of God. Why is it that when some Christians disagree about something they feel that others have no faith at all??? I would never say that about a YEC devotee just because we disagree.

 

[Caino]

It's not true, but whatever you say!

Michael

Evolution is just the study of the evidence of the developmental stages of life that God created. It's evidence of how life finally emerged into will conscious mind that could worship and receive the divine affection of the creator of such mind.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Yes, I love all manifestations of God. Why is it that when some Christians disagree about something they feel that others have no faith at all??? I would never say that about a YEC devotee just because we disagree.

Dear Caino,

That's fine. Did you ask Jesus to come into your heart and abide there? Do you have a very close relationship with Jesus. Do you help your fellow man out? Do you give some money or anything to a beggar who is having trouble with life? You just say that you do everything that I mention so that you won't be in error about your Urantia Book beliefs. But have you really been doing these things is the question. God knows the answer to that already. If you do all of these things, you might as well call the Urantia Book the same as the Bible, by the prophets and disciples, and others who helped write the Bible, and also to those who compiled it. But if your Urantia religion does all of these things that the Bible does, then you might as well just be called a true Christian instead of what you call yourself a believer in the Urantia Book. Is your book a copy of our Bible? I've read some of the things on your Urantia Pages and was quite appalled. I don't like him teaching others that volatile religion. Your Urantia book is just a spinoff of our Bible, but with an Alien and spaceship story. So I came down hard on Freelight, who follows the mystic religions, and not the Christian religion. If you follow Jesus and believe that He is your Savior, you're getting there.

Freelight is really out of it and so are you. You both twist words and sentences, and subjects around to suit your beliefs. Do you bow to elephants? You would say you did in order to be part of the Christian Faith. I'm just giving you an example. Freelight thinks that his ridiculous twisted context of his words make him so superior, when he is not. His words are like intricate, embellished, twisted sentences being some cute way to seem intelligent. It really is so extremely convoluted that it is dangerous and sad at the same time. Whether you are Heady or not won't get you into Heaven. You have to have a close relationship with Jesus and God in order to get into Heaven. I'm done talking for now. To a copycat religion bent on misleading Christians.

Much Love, In Jesus Christ,

Michael

 

[Arthur Brain]

No, you just obfuscated and with an incredible amount of dishonest distraction, it at least seems at this time. I've read about public AND private schools in the UK. Should I believe your [mis?]information over them? Seriously? Your government is so insecure that it demands Christian Schools and other free institutions NOT teach creation as a fact? Bad news: while I or others may not get all facts straight, creation is a fact.

So, because schools don't teach 'creationism' as science they're culpable of dishonesty? Schools aren't, nor should they be in the business of teaching any religious belief in a science class. YEC may be 'fact' to you but frankly, you don't count where it comes to established science and evolution is just that. Furthermore, evolution does not discount creation anyway. If I recall correctly, Alate One is assistant professor of biology and there's no cognitive dissonance with her belief in God and science.

As far as my research and education are concerned, you are not just wrong, but completely opposite of what I've been reading. Please correct me if I am wrong. Frankly, I'd LOVE to be wrong on this particular. Show me.

You're only "right" in as much that schools over here don't teach what you think they should teach.

The 'obvious' answer is that more than just Christians question science and often AND for good reason.... Sorry to burst that bubble. I know science is 'god' for a few of those who cannot seem to think for themselves. I don't just go with the flow ESPECIALLY when scientists and a good few who are also Christians are honest enough to disclose weaknesses and overblown statistics. "Why other supposed scientists aren't paying attention to their own crowd" is the REAL mystery.... try not to over step your own bounds in second guessing mine.

I didn't try to 'second guess' you about anything. I asked you a straightforward question is all. In a very convoluted and roundabout way I suppose you've answered it. That it's more likely that scientists all around the world are wrong rather than it is that Genesis can be read as narrative rather than literal. Well, that's your prerogative of course but that has no bearing and nor should it impact on how science operates.

The 'why is that?' is that I know there is a God and I will believe Him over anybody else, every time. Because I know, per fact, He exists, man will never have my allegiance before Him. That's just the way that is going to have to be on a Christian website (Remember where you are). You are on a Christian website where we take this as fact, regardless of what you personally know or don't know, or what the science community at large may be ignorant of concerning Him. Unfathomable or unappreciated such a direct answer may be an inconvenience,however it is a VERY direct answer: God over man. Every time. However unfathomable you anticipated such, it was more than obvious and the only answer.

I know exactly where I am Lon. In total I've been here ten years and I didn't ask you anything that broke forum rules, nor was I rude or disruptive in the manner of how I asked the question. It may not compute for you but many people can and do have faith while accepting established scientific theories.

If what I am reading is correct, I'd have to move from the UK for religious persecution all over again. I'm glad I'm here in the U.S. There is no way I'd listen to anybody trying to tell kids what they can and cannot believe. Creation is 'fact.'

Persecution? What are you talking about? Do you think the UK is an 'atheist state' or something? You'd be free to go to church and practice your beliefs all you'd want. There's no lynch mobs for churchgoers or anything Lon. If schools were to teach creationism as "fact" then how would you be any the less guilty of telling kids what they can and can't believe in turn? Creation itself may very well be a fact Lon. YEC on the other hand most assuredly isn't.

 

[Caino]

Dear Caino,

That's fine. Did you ask Jesus to come into your heart and abide there? Do you have a very close relationship with Jesus. Do you help your fellow man out? Do you give some money or anything to a beggar who is having trouble with life? You just say that you do everything that I mention so that you won't be in error about your Urantia Book beliefs. But have you really been doing these things is the question. God knows the answer to that already. If you do all of these things, you might as well call the Urantia Book the same as the Bible, by the prophets and disciples, and others who helped write the Bible, and also to those who compiled it. But if your Urantia religion does all of these things that the Bible does, then you might as well just be called a true Christian instead of what you call yourself a believer in the Urantia Book. Is your book a copy of our Bible? I've read some of the things on your Urantia Pages and was quite appalled. I don't like him teaching others that volatile religion. Your Urantia book is just a spinoff of our Bible, but with an Alien and spaceship story. So I came down hard on Freelight, who follows the mystic religions, and not the Christian religion. If you follow Jesus and believe that He is your Savior, you're getting there.

Freelight is really out of it and so are you. You both twist words and sentences, and subjects around to suit your beliefs. Do you bow to elephants? You would say you did in order to be part of the Christian Faith. I'm just giving you an example. Freelight thinks that his ridiculous twisted context of his words make him so superior, when he is not. His words are like intricate, embellished, twisted sentences being some cute way to seem intelligent. It really is so extremely convoluted that it is dangerous and sad at the same time. Whether you are Heady or not won't get you into Heaven. You have to have a close relationship with Jesus and God in order to get into Heaven. I'm done talking for now. To a copycat religion bent on misleading Christians.

Much Love, In Jesus Christ,

Michael

I committed my life to God 31 years ago, and as Jesus taught, I do my good works in secret without needing to announce them to the whole world....and I certainly don't need to have you judge me or my faith.

 

[6days]

If schools were to teach creationism as "fact"*.....

I think that is a bit of a strawman argument. I'm unaware of any who say creationism should be taught as fact. No Christian would want someone who is hostile to the Bible being forced to teach it.

What many Christians would like though is that teachers and students have the academic freedom to discuss competing theories....the freedom to discuss strengths and weaknesses of TOE...etc (As long as the curriculum is completed)

 

[everready]

Frauds and Hoaxes in the Evolutionary Tree

If evolution were true, intermediate links should be found everywhere in the fossil record. But they remain missing, and some famous examples have turned out to be frauds.

Despite being exposed as lies and forgeries, some supposed “missing links” in the fossil record made a deep and lasting impression on the popular conception of the theory of evolution. Some continue to be found in old textbooks and articles used in some schools.

Let’s review some of the falsified evidence.
Deceptive dating

Professor Reiner Protsch von Zieten was famous for finding missing links suggesting interbreeding of Neanderthals with humans—until he was exposed in 2005.

The Guardian newspaper’s correspondent in Berlin, Luke Harding, wrote about this in his article “History of Modern Man Unravels as German Scholar Is Exposed as a Fraud”:

“His discovery appeared to show that Neanderthals had spread much further north than was previously known.

“But … a crucial Hamburg skull fragment, which was believed to have come from the world’s oldest German, a Neanderthal known as Hahnhöfersand Man, was actually a mere 7,500 years old, according to Oxford University’s radiocarbon dating unit. The unit established that other skulls had been wrongly dated too.

http://lifehopeandtruth.com/god/is-...ossil-record/frauds-hoaxes-evolutionary-tree/

https://www.thetrumpet.com/article/594.24.41.0/science/evolution/the-fraud-of-evolution

http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/01/09/44-reasons-evolution-just-fairy-tale-adults/


everready

 

[Lon]

I didn't try to 'second guess' you about anything. I asked you a straightforward question is all. In a very convoluted and roundabout way I suppose you've answered it. That it's more likely that scientists all around the world are wrong rather than it is that Genesis can be read as narrative rather than literal. Well, that's your prerogative of course but that has no bearing and nor should it impact on how science operates.

It isn't 'science all around the world.' It is "science" the same all over the world because it is a share discipline, much like math. Science observations are different than math when it comes to things it cannot really test or prove. Nobody can prove what
they were not around to witness. It is extrapolation, best guessing. "A preponderance of evidence" is still and yet, suppositional. Years ahead, no creationist will make a million dollars for discounting any science theory or extrapolation. We all know, implicitly, there is a difference between extrapolation and what we can actually measure and prove.

I know exactly where I am Lon. In total I've been here ten years and I didn't ask you anything that broke forum rules, nor was I rude or disruptive in the manner of how I asked the question. It may not compute for you but many people can and do have faith while accepting established scientific theories.

You've been less than stellar on your last post. It took me a bit by surprise, frankly.

Persecution? What are you talking about? Do you think the UK is an 'atheist state' or something? You'd be free to go to church and practice your beliefs all you'd want. There's no lynch mobs for churchgoers or anything Lon. If schools were to teach creationism as "fact" then how would you be any the less guilty of telling kids what they can and can't believe in turn? Creation itself may very well be a fact Lon. YEC on the other hand most assuredly isn't.

I've been trying to get more information but reading the links I gave and a youtube commentary I didn't repost, it was suggested the government would not allow Christian schools to teach 'creation as fact.' The thing that was purported, and again, I'd love you to set that record straight, was that 'public' and 'free' etc. mean something different in the UK. You, yourself suggested I had no idea what school was like in the UK. It was yet another of those uninviting retorts from the last post. Again, such was a surprise to me, where you and I, I ha d thought, carried a better, polite, and mutual conversation. For whatever part I played, if at all, my apologies. I really don't enjoy crossing you, in particular, at all. -Lon

 

[Jose Fly]

I have scientists in my family. One is more anti-theist, certainly anti-Christian. He is a paleontologist by education and works outside of the science field. The other is a biologist and he is clear that science rags are not really science. They are propaganda to keep interest in science and keep $ coming in and also to for some to get notoriety for power/prestige....

...No, just observation ever and only has helped us. Trial and error. We STILL miss rockets going to Mars by inches over metrics. We still have medicine killing 1 of 3 fatalities in hospitals. Don't overtly put trust in man. That's an important message here. They do NOT do as well as many indoctrinators would like you to believe, but that information doesn't sell rags or get government grants. Follow the money. You don't trust politicians for the SAME reason.

So Lon is a "science is a conspiracy" believer. Big surprise.

 

[Jose Fly]

Creation is 'fact.'

It is? By what standard?

 

[Lon]

That isn't true. You should be wary of taking your beliefs from a partial reading of newspaper articles.

To put you straight: there are plenty of Christian schools that teach Christian doctrine as fact. I work in one such school that holds daily services and Eucharistic services weekly, and my children attend another. But what they do not do, and they have no wish to, is to teach Christian Creationism as if it was a genuine science.

British state schools are free to promote religion, unlike in the US. Incidentally, free schools are just state schools, not privates ones.

Thanks, that helps quite bit. Thank you for looking at and correcting those links.

 

[everready]

It is? By what standard?

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

http://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-bible-text/Ge-1.html


everready

 

[Jose Fly]

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

http://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-bible-text/Ge-1.html

So that's it? "It's in the Bible, therefore it is a fact"?

 

[Lon]

It is? By what standard?

1) Self-evident: Your own mind and values point to the fact, despite cognitive dissonance.
2) Spinoza's God: If it is exists, it has to be a property of what created it. Regardless if you think the universe created you, 'intelligence' is part of the universe and you didn't create yourself. IOW "Intelligence created you by the reflective principle: "you can't have it unless it exists."
Not many scientists I've met seem to grasp the philosophical reality of this proof. It cannot be debated.
3) You didn't create yourself therefore you have a creator/Creator, thus: Creation is, in fact, science whether you can use your senses to prove the fact or not. You not being able to test it as a puny human has nothing to do with the universe existing, and reliably evident without you, or another in particular. IOW, it doesn't matter if you recognize it or not, facts are just facts in and of themselves.
4) I particularly, know there is a God. How or why aren't necessary at this part of the conversation. Rather, it empowers the statement I made and goes along with #3 (whether such is or can be proved to you). It is fact simply because "I" know is fact. Buzz Aldrin knows the world is a globe, for instance and it doesn't matter if you or I know it as fact. Facts just are, and by that standard, whether you or another can actualize it (recognize it).