gcthomas
New member
Religious wars and pogroms occur more often when religions become locally dominant. Are you suggesting that the Truth of a claim can be determined by what violence is done by the most psychopathic individuals.
Creation vs. Evolution II
- Thread starter patrick jane
- Start date
Religious wars and pogroms occur more often when religions become locally dominant. Are you suggesting that the Truth of a claim can be determined by what violence is done by the most psychopathic individuals.
Hedshaker
New member
Like I say, believe what you want. Reality doesn't care what you think and neither does anyone else. If you think spelling mistakes equals failed predictions then go for it. You are just plain wrong and you'll be just as wrong in a few decades as you are now. That's my prediction based on the evidence. ie everyone who has ever made such claims as you do have always been 100% wrong, every time, no exception.
There is no evidence for the existence of angels outside of your delusions, not a shred, and no, a snow fall means nothing. Tell me, do they issue weather forecasts in your neck of the woods? How did the measure 7", with a ruler. Was it in the middle or at the edges? Wake up Michael you're impressing no one.
And finally, the evidence for pixies, fairies, gods and hobgoblins is exactly the same. ie, there is none.
I'm done with this nonsense. Enough is enough. Just believe what you want. I'm not interested.
ETA: And no, my written mistake wasn't expect, it was accept. I accept that you do. Ok?
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I didn't think you would produce any evidence, and of course you didn't.
That video is evidence that people were willing to use Social Darwinism to progress their Fascist cause.
That has nothing to do with Darwinian natural selection. The fact that an institution was built to take care of vulnerable people is evidence that humans work together in mutually-supporting groups for the sake of common survival, and wholesale slaughter is not normal behaviour. Nothing of what you posted represents what Darwin described. You are talking about artificial selection. That's not what goes on out there: animals do not kill other animals because they feel that is what should happen according to Darwinian principles.
More effort needed, 6days.
Stuart
6days
New member
Increased racism and the holocaust ARE evidence of harm Darwinism has caused.Stuu said:
Exactly! Social darwinism and common ancestry beliefs was used to justify the elimination and torture of the mentally disabled, and certain people groups.Stuu said:
Stuu... you tried to veer off to natural selection. That wasn't part of what we were talking about. That is part of the creationist model and was discussed by a creationist before Darwin.
Your need to hide behind generic “we don’t know how” is noted. I have spent some time looking at this question of how we see M31 if it is only 6000 years old, and I see no way it can be explained from a physics viewpoint apart from Lisle’s seizing on infinite light speed towards the earth. A few creationists, like RosenR, seem to be OK with God pretending the light came from M31, when in fact it was never even 1% of the way there (“light in transit”), but I have seen a lot of creationists distance themselves from the idea that God would so obviously deceive like that. (And Jason Lisle’s one-way speed of light solution is not without problems, but if that is all you have left, then … )
Or you can accept what Snelling concluded that science showed - that repeated and accurate scientific measurements indicate the earth is in fact billions of years old. Then you don’t have to resort to hiding behind doing scientific backflips to avoid the obvious fact that the universe is at least as old as the earth’s billions of years.
gcthomas
New member
So you are happy that your attempt attainting evolution with blame for the sort of racism that has happened under Christianity and has happened before evolution was conceived does not in any way impinge on the veracity of evolution as an empirical and theoretical theory?
6days
New member
You can't explain it purely from physics, from whichever model you believe in, or the creation model. A supernatural creation can't be explained from physics...neither can multiverse, or everything from nothing, or the many 'god of the gap' entities in big bang cosmology. *( such as expansion being powered by dark energy).*redfern said:
He might be correct. We don't know how God created. We don't know the speed God spread the heavens. But we do know from scripture that Adam would have been able to see the stars.*redfern said:
6days
New member
We can talk about the veracity of common ancestry.... but that is not what the discussion was about.gcthomas said:
Jose Fly *had made what appears to be a false statement about Darwins work being banned in Germany. That claim does not seem to be true, and in fact Darwinian evolution seemed to be a driving force in Nazi Getmany.
Likewise with racism... it existed previously but scientific racism increased by orders of magnitude after 1859.
Re the veracity of Darwins theory...The holocaust may not have happened without some of Darwin's suggestions that there were human groups who were low... degraded....savage....and would be eliminated. Had Darwin insted taught that all humanity is one blood...all equal in God's eyes, then there may have been a whole lot less sufferring in our world.*
Evolution did produce the humans who are capable of racism. So I guess human evolution must be fact.
Stuart
I think you will find that increased racism and the holocaust are evidence of increased racism and the holocaust. To your credit you aren't one of those multiple conspiracy theorists who denies both evolution by natural selection and the holocaust.
Right. So do we have it straight then? Natural selection, Darwinian natural selection, or 'Darwinism' has nothing to do with racism or the holocaust. You could try making some arguments from Darwin's writing about human evolution, but you haven't because you are too lazy to do the work for yourself. Maybe AiG has something on it you could Ctrl-C Ctrl-V.
Darwinism
ˈdɑːwɪnɪz(ə)m/
noun
noun: Darwinism
the theory of the evolution of species by natural selection advanced by Charles Darwin.
social Darwinism
noun
noun: social Darwinism
the theory that individuals, groups, and peoples are subject to the same Darwinian laws of natural selection as plants and animals. Now largely discredited, social Darwinism was advocated by Herbert Spencer and others in the late 19th and early 20th centuries and was used to justify political conservatism, imperialism, and racism and to discourage intervention and reform.
Stuart
Dear Hedshaker,
Regardless of what you think, I have many loved ones and many other people even around the world who care what I think. So your generalizations are unfounded. And I'm not saying that my mistakes were any worse than yours. I was just pointing out that we ALL make mistakes, whether life and death, or grammar mistakes either, or whatever. Also, within my own time frame, I would narrow it down from a few decades to a few years or less. You wanted to know, so I thought I would take it easy on you. Now you know how I feel. I don't care if it's been said in the past. This is the real thing!
I'll have you know that they measured it correctly, for that is what the newspaper said the next day. You ask them, why don't you? It was written in black and white. I have copies of the newspaper article about the snow and also a copy of my letter to the NY Daily Newspaper reporter, saying that 7" would fall withing 48 hours of him receiving the letter. You want a copy? Send me your address and I'll be more than happy to mail you a copy.
Hedshaker, you're so touchy. It doesn't matter to me if it was 'expect,' or 'accept,' it was a mistake nevertheless. Now calm down! Yes, angels do exist. You can bet your life on it.
Much Love To You And Your Loved Ones,
Michael
Dear Stuu,
Evolution did not produce the humans who are capable of racism, and human evolution is not fact. You should know better. God produced the humans and you can just imagine how Satan made them twist what Darwin said into racism and human evolution, just like the Serpent twisted the words of God to deceive Eve and Adam.
I guess you are not celebrating Thanksgiving today. We're going to have a blast partying and eating scrumptious food. I guess Canada isn't celebrating either. Nor Great Britain. Oh well, Christmas is coming soon. Hang in there!! I am just full of joy knowing that Jesus is returning soon. I'm ecstatic. Yippee!! I'm like a kid in a candy store!
Warmest Wishes, Stuart,
Michael
I'll have to stop you right there.
Thanks, and do enjoy your pagan celebration!
I think Canada has already celebrated Thanksgiving.
Stuart
Hedshaker
New member
Well there's been nothing real about it so far, has there? Even when your supposed god tells you what will happen, it doesn't. Nor is it likely to happen, ever! Maybe God made a mistake, huh? All we have to go on is your say so, which is exactly the same as all the others have offered over the centuries. Your say so is no better than theirs, whether you believe it or not. You're obviously plain wrong. Get used to it.
And yes, I know there are plenty of gullible people in the world who will believe all sorts of crazy things. So what?
And you made sure to miss local the weather forecast, right? I'm not even going to argue this with you any more because it's stupid, as others have noticed. Your claimed god gets a snow fall right but is wrong about the second coming...... Oooookay!!
Yes, we all make mistakes, it's only human, but you claimed your mistake came from a higher power. That's a humdinger of a mistake for sure.
It's not a case of being touchy, it's a case that you are unable to listen to reason. And yes there are gullible people out there who might buy the nonsense you spout. Give it a rest!
Re how we can see recently created galaxies that are at great distances, 6days said:
Then in his next paragraph, speaking of Jason Lisle’s proposed explanation for being able to see distant galaxies, 6days says:
6days, you need to be a bit more consistent in your claims. Since in your first paragraph you categorically rule out being able to explain this from physics, then will you explain why you suggest Jason Lisle’s explanation, which is based on physics, “might be correct”?
I find it amusing when a religious zealot who has a limited understanding of both mathematics and the core ideas of physics declares what the boundaries of what physics can study are. I look on my bookshelves, on the internet, in graduate-level university classes, in scientific journals, and I see ongoing studies in all of the fields 6days seems to want to declare as off-limits.
I don’t know what that comment is meant to address. If I were a chronicler of my tribe’s creation legends, and while I was recording a favorite tale of some “mythological first human”, my 5-year old daughter runs into our tent and says, “Papa, papa, I saw some stars!!!”. Hmm, yeah, I’ll add that to the tale, this first guy saw stars. Boy, that will be convincing.
(Uhh, 6days, by the “stars” you say Adam saw, are you referring to that 1% of 1% of 1% of the stars that nobody had any inking existed until just the last century? You know, all those poor religious people who read (or perhaps misread) the same religious accounts you do, but had to do without the recent realization of the vastness of space that secular science, not religion revealed?)
Then in his next paragraph, speaking of Jason Lisle’s proposed explanation for being able to see distant galaxies, 6days says:
6days, you need to be a bit more consistent in your claims. Since in your first paragraph you categorically rule out being able to explain this from physics, then will you explain why you suggest Jason Lisle’s explanation, which is based on physics, “might be correct”?
That is pretty much by definition, since physics, as a part of science, seeks for understanding of the natural world, not supernatural things. That leaves open the question of whether physics can supply a natural explanation for something we might term as a beginning could occur.
I find it amusing when a religious zealot who has a limited understanding of both mathematics and the core ideas of physics declares what the boundaries of what physics can study are. I look on my bookshelves, on the internet, in graduate-level university classes, in scientific journals, and I see ongoing studies in all of the fields 6days seems to want to declare as off-limits.
I don’t know what that comment is meant to address. If I were a chronicler of my tribe’s creation legends, and while I was recording a favorite tale of some “mythological first human”, my 5-year old daughter runs into our tent and says, “Papa, papa, I saw some stars!!!”. Hmm, yeah, I’ll add that to the tale, this first guy saw stars. Boy, that will be convincing.
(Uhh, 6days, by the “stars” you say Adam saw, are you referring to that 1% of 1% of 1% of the stars that nobody had any inking existed until just the last century? You know, all those poor religious people who read (or perhaps misread) the same religious accounts you do, but had to do without the recent realization of the vastness of space that secular science, not religion revealed?)
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6days
New member
I already explained. We don't know how God brought distant starlight to earth... We do know that He did.redfern said:
"It is often said that science must avoid any conclusions which smack of the supernatural. But this seems to me to be both bad logic and bad science. Science is not a game in which arbitrary rules are used to decide what explanations are to be permitted. Rather, it is an effort to make true statements about physical reality."redfern said:
Michael J. Behe
Yes...it is amusing. So why are you putting boundaries on what science is? You seem to be one who is afraid to let a divine foot in the door, yet willing to believe in all types of unscientific hypothetical entitiesredfern said:
Not sure of your point Redfern. 100 years from now, people will be amazed at how little we understood of the universe...or the complexity of the cell. We worship and marvel at His creation from what we do know.redfern said:
Science helps confirm the truth of scripture, and provides an avenue of worship.
Greg Jennings
New member
6days, name one professor or "expert" you have ever conversed with in person about the age of Earth, evolution, or the meaning conveyed in Genesis, and their university or affiliation. I'm fairly sure you can't, as you've never studied any of this beyond the internet level.
So surprise me.
internet level is the highest you can get
I'm just amazed that people still exist !!! :chuckle: