Couple must pay lesbian couple $1500 each, on top of 10K fine

drbrumley

Well-known member
I understand the argument you're making. What if scientists conclusively PROVE that ones sexuality is determined by genetics? I don't believe they have done that yet, but what if? Would that change your opinion?

Scientists can say what they want to justify anything they want. They have done "proved" the earth and the universe is 6,000,000 years old or longer. In the case of homosexuality, they would have us believe this is genetic, with the implication that God created them to burn them in hell. No, He didn't, but they chose to live this lifestyle. Nothing genetic.
 

OCTOBER23

New member
GFoRS said

I'm posting articles against the gay agenda.
If that bothers you, I have nothing to say.
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It seems that you were rooting for them by posting so many Threads

Limelighting them and their adventures in society.

A Christian shouldn't go around picking on others or other religions.

Tsk Tsk

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Uberpod1

BANNED
Banned
Scientists can say what they want to justify anything they want. They have done "proved" the earth and the universe is 6,000,000 years old or longer. In the case of homosexuality, they would have us believe this is genetic, with the implication that God created them to burn them in hell. No, He didn't, but they chose to live this lifestyle. Nothing genetic.

Yeah -- no matter how much evidence exists against your view , you have every right to persist. Enjoy.
 

The Berean

Well-known member
I understand the argument you're making. What if scientists conclusively PROVE that ones sexuality is determined by genetics? I don't believe they have done that yet, but what if? Would that change your opinion?

If that were the case then that might spell doom for the future of homosexuals. Think about it. If homosexuality is purely genetic then it can potentially be screened for by genetic tests while a woman is pregnant. And with easy access to abortion how many couples will abort a "gay" fetus? A lot I would imagine. That's a frightening thought isn't it? :noid: Or at the very least some people will try to correct the "gay" gene before the baby is born .

By the way MrDeets since when have you been an atheist? :idunno: Just curious.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
No, but me marrying a black woman would be. And there certainly are groups of Christians who believe such a thing is wrong, because they believe their god put the different races on different continents for a reason.

So if they opened up a wedding and reception business, would it be legal for them to discriminate against me and my bride?

Robert Wenzel says it better than I can

People discriminate for all kinds of reasons. I know men that will only date attractive women. I know one major league businessman who only hires ugly women on the theory that they will stay more loyal and have fewer outside opportunities to leave.

So what?

I know people that are prejudice against blacks, other that hate Czechs, yes Czechs!, and some that hate Jews. Again, so what? If someone spends most of their living breathing hours hating, blacks, Czechs or Jews, I am not going to spend much time with them, if any, because I would be bored to death, but why should I care about their views?

Because of some service or product they provide, I may interact with them, but I really don’t care what their views are on other subjects, as long as they are not advocating some kind of coercion against others, that is, advocating a violation of the non-aggression principle.

The world is about exchange, with a very few people I will have interaction on many levels. With many others, I will only have limited interaction. With most people on the planet, I will have no interaction. If these people are not violating the non-aggression principle, why should I have any obligation to change their views on anything?

Further, I seriously doubt that there are many Americans that are advocating the return of blacks to slavery (an advocacy that alone, without actual coercion, is not a violation of NAP) and I am not aware of any groups actually putting blacks, or any other group, into slave camps. It is a bogus issue.

The one group that I am aware of that does regularly violate the non-aggression principle is the government. There are compulsory school attendance laws, there are minimum wage laws, tax laws and there are anti-drug laws, to name a few. This is a serious problem. Further, the U.S. government is involved with empire building and wars around the planet. This is coercion on steroids, it is a real problem.
 

GFR7

New member
I understand the argument you're making. What if scientists conclusively PROVE that ones sexuality is determined by genetics? I don't believe they have done that yet, but what if? Would that change your opinion?
The problem with the genetic argument:

Even if it could be 100% proven (and for many, this would mean God/nature created them this way not to damn them, but to have them thrive) there would still be trouble afoot.

First, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and some forms of autistic disorder are thought to be genetically acquired, yet they are treated as diseases to be controlled, not natural states to be celebrated and accepted.

Secondly, pedophilia, with it's "I was this way as long as I can remember" is likely to have a genetic etiology as well.

In fact, genetic causation can be viewed almost as criminal or a mark of the devil: "You come from a family of pedophiles and criminals".

So don't trust in the genetic "fix"; it will raise more problems than you can imagine.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
I understand the argument you're making. What if scientists conclusively PROVE that ones sexuality is determined by genetics? I don't believe they have done that yet, but what if? Would that change your opinion?

Is drinking to excess ok if one has a gene that causes alcoholism?
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
Angel, this post is for you, not for the guys hiding under the couch.

It seems to me that perhaps the Giffords may have been accustomed to being self-righteously prejudicial in denying equal access, and then they got caught.

Their hapless hauling out and parading of their token gays

Sorry anna, i dont see it that way, i see them trying to defend themselves and show that they indeed arent attempting to discriminate against anyone, but that they will not cross the line and perform an abomination before God.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Trauma ( molestation/rape)/mental and or emotional illness/hormonal issues or all of them.

Well, if they were the only reasons that caused same sex attraction it still wouldn't be a choice of any sort so that doesn't really answer my question just in regards to your examples alone. Do you honestly think that every gay/bisexual person has undergone one or some of the above?
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
Well, if they were the only reasons that caused same sex attraction it still wouldn't be a choice of any sort so that doesn't really answer my question just in regards to your examples alone. Do you honestly think that every gay/bisexual person has undergone one or some of the above?

yes it would, its a choice if you are predisposed to alcoholism to choose not to drink.

Do i think are some are just pervs and want something taboo, also, you betcha.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
yes it would, its a choice if you are predisposed to alcoholism to choose not to drink.

So are you conceding that some people may just be born with an inherent attraction to their own or both sexes? I'm not talking about what they may choose to do on such.

Do i think are some are just pervs and want something taboo, also, you betcha.

You'd need an attraction in order to do it, not something I could choose.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
You'd need an attraction in order to do it, not something I could choose.

Which is where the albeit not always consciously or deliberately comes in.

Why do you think women with extremely low self esteem often keep "choosing" losers? Or why sometimes someone who is raped/molested becomes extremely promiscuous?

I'm sure they don't consciously choose for those things to happen either.

But then some people choose things on the edge just because they are on the edge.

Some people choose really weird things too. They are choices when they go through with them.

Ideally we would practice self control to refrain from what is not ok.

For example: what if a married man is attracted to his next door neighbors wife? What should he do?
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Which is where the albeit not always consciously or deliberately comes in.

Why do you think women with extremely low self esteem often keep "choosing" losers? Or why sometimes someone who is raped/molested becomes extremely promiscuous?

I'm sure they don't consciously choose for those things to happen either.

But then some people choose things on the edge just because they are on the edge.

Some people choose really weird things too. They are choices when they go through with them.

What of gay and bisexual people who simply haven't had any such experience and just happen to be that way inclined, or is that you maintain they must have had something that impacted on their psyche away from the 'norm'?

I'm not denying that the human psyche can be affected, it certainly can but to call homosexuality a 'choice' or at least, a 'condition' that comes about through abuse/trauma etc as a 'rule' is lacking.

I didn't choose to be straight. I can lust (and have done) but only the opposite sex would and could inform that choice and any decision I made to act on such. Short of something that thoroughly affected my psyche it would be impossible for me to "choose" to be attracted to men.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
What of gay and bisexual people who simply haven't had any such experience and just happen to be that way inclined

What of a kleptomaniac that doesn't know why they want to steal - should we help them by letting them do it or tell them its ok to do it?

Should what they desire be ok, no matter what it is?

(you arent answering my questions to you in my posts)
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
What of a kleptomaniac that doesn't know why they want to steal - should we help them by letting them do it or tell them its ok to do it?

Should what they desire be ok, no matter what it is?

(you arent answering my questions to you in my posts)

Of course not, but if that desire or attraction isn't harming a minor or abusing another and is consensual between two adults then what's the harm under law? Could you at this moment in time choose to start finding women attractive? Or see yourself being able to do so?

You'd edited your last post during my answer. I'd say the married guy was better off not acting on his attraction even if he had little choice in it, certainly if he loved his wife and valued the relationship as well as not potentially damaging another persons.
 
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