Did you read the article?
The fact is that we get enjoyment from widespread positive associations. And we enjoy the things that trigger them.
We can do, yes.
You insist on the listener enjoying the music for its own sake. Or the diner enjoying the restaurant for its own sake. But why? That's not the only way people are capable of enjoying things.
My wife and I enjoy visiting places (restaurants, parks, museums, etc) where we went while we were still dating. Do you think if my wife had dumped me on our second date, that I'd seek out that same restaurant? Heck no. I'd probably not even remember the name of it by now. I don't enjoy it for it's own sake. But going back there with her is a pleasurable experience. I enjoy it.
I'm not arguing that it isn't but it wouldn't be for the thing itself and in that token a Beyonce song will never be a pleasurable listening experience, for me. Even if there was a positive association with one of her tracks (which there isn't, more the reverse of having to tolerate it at work) I wouldn't choose to listen to any of her stuff as it's boring. I've enjoyed seeing kids entertained by 'My Little Pony' but I don't go home and watch it on TV for entertainment purposes.
I get your analogy with positive/negative associations. If you were dumped on a date in the greatest restaurant on Earth it would be understandable if you didn't want to set foot in the place again, but it wouldn't have anything to do with you choosing to enjoy or not enjoy the food, which is kind of the principle in play here isn't it?
No. I haven't tried it, though. It might taste good. Have you tried it?
Once, accidentally when I spilled a cup of the stuff over my plate. It did not taste good and I'm pretty sure if you're honest that you know it wouldn't be better for you either. What do you generally order when you go out for a meal, because I'm laying odds that it isn't Tex Mex in chocolate sauce...
I don't know.
And I don't have to.
I don't get why Ethiopian restaurants stay open. Yet, they do.
I bet I could get accustomed to Ethiopian food if I wanted to.
It's obvious. It's because our palettes and taste buds are generally hardwired to put certain foodstuffs with others. Salt in savoury and sugar in sweet. That's a basic rule sure but you don't 'choose' to find the taste of a food savoury or sweet do you? Or anything else, bitter etc.
Sure, you probably can get accustomed to food from other cultures, heck, I enjoy a lot of spicy food and here's something you might appreciate. I was out with a good friend a coupla years ago in a local pub and it was 'curry club night', so essentially it was a curry of choice with a pint for a lot less than it would normally cost. I was fed up of this friend saying how much he enjoyed the smell of the stuff but wouldn't order one but this time I convinced him to give one a go. Turned out he'd had a prank played on him by his brother who'd made him one that practically set his mouth on fire and it turned him off curry for years. when I explained that the milder ones taste as how you'd expect from the aroma he had a Tikka Massala and loved it.
So, negative associations with the prank sure. He might have easily still not enjoyed it on choosing to give it a go as well however. His choice was to do just that, not to enjoy the food itself.
Yes, because that's the most popular choice.
So what?
Well, again, why do you suppose that is? Restaurants and food outlets are in the business of providing a market, not determining the tastes of that market itself.
Your enjoyment for things "away from basic harmony" didn't occur in a vacuum. Your own deliberate choices (seeking out certain types of music, avoiding others) shaped your musical taste.
Do you deny that you played (and continue to play) an active role in forming your musical taste?
Well, no, they didn't. I could have played 'The Rite' and been bored by it, found it to be a cacophony or some such. I didn't, nor did I 'choose' to enjoy it. The only choice I made that day was to try a tape that my dad hired from the local library and give it a go without knowing anything about it. Sure, as I've already said I made choices to search out more of Stravinsky, other contemporaries and searched for music that was more likely to hit that 'musical spot' through all sorts of different genres. Some I liked, a lot of it I didn't but I've never shut out anything that hits the ear. I know through continual exposure to commercial music that it's few and far between where something does that but if I enjoy it I enjoy it. It has to be something that isn't by the numbers and formulaic though.
First - interesting is not synonymous with enjoyable.
Second - What actions have you taken to increase your enjoyment of something?
Are you ever enjoyed while bored? If something is interesting then there has to be something enjoyable about it at least.
If somethings completely lacks any enjoyment then there's nothing there to actually increase. The closest I got to anything resembling was the repartee as to how crap the local radio station was...
Yes, that would defeat the purpose.
So there'd be no point then. I've given peanut butter a few goes on occasion and the result is the same. Yeuch...
If you could have chosen to enjoy it, would you have?
Probably, except that's not how things work. If I could have chosen to enjoy Salmonella food poisoning for a fortnight as a kid then you can bet your last cent I'd have done it. Not an option though...
But shouldn't you be insistent that everyone
can train themselves to enjoy Ligeti's music, to be consistent?
:think:
Yeah - again, don't take it personally, man.
Anyway, of course I could be wrong.
Hey, I appreciate the detailed response here, so no bother.
:cheers:
Thanks - I will choose to enjoy 2017. :angel:
Well, good luck, I hope you find much that's enjoyable for you in it.
