Conversation with Knight about losing faith

[Nathon Detroit]

You could have shown some leadership. Some empathy. Some Christian charity.

I vaguely remember when Zoo went off the deep end. There were a lot of concerned people and folks trying to figure out what was up with him.

That was years ago.

I really don't know much about it as me and Zoo haven't really talked all that much.

 

[annabenedetti]

Why is Knight's opinion important to you? Why burden him and yourself with such a responsibility, especially on matters of faith?

Let no person be your regula fidei (rule of faith), rather look to Scripture as the only rule of faith and practice in all that you think, do, or say.

AMR

You inserted Knight into my quote. You shouldn't have, because my statement was addressed to all the Christians at TOL.

 

[ok doser]

Zoo's "My Sea Change" thread

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83035

 

[annabenedetti]

I vaguely remember when Zoo went off the deep end. There were a lot of concerned people and folks trying to figure out what was up with him.

That was years ago.

I really don't know much about it as me and Zoo haven't really talked all that much.

He didn't go off the deep end. Can you talk about him without insulting him, or not? He did make a thread to talk about becoming an agnostic, and it turned out to be a really wonderful thread in some aspects, so hopefully it hasn't been pruned.

However, my post was directed at your recent words to and about me, and about zoo, which prompted my question to you yesterday that set this conversation in motion.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Does Matt: 18:6 mean anything to any Christian here?

If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Actually, the passage is not what you may be assuming.

Our Lord here was not talking about children in general. Instead, He was speaking of those who have been converted and become like children, that is, new or young believers. We know this because He said “little ones who believe in Me.” But His teaching was not about these young believers. It was about those who relate to them. Specifically, He gave a warning to anyone who would cause a young believer to sin.

So the underlying assumption is that these young ones were actually believers. Given that, the admonition concerns leading them to temptation and sin...not their losing a faith that cannot be lost in the first place.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

You inserted Knight into my quote. You shouldn't have, because my statement was addressed to all the Christians at TOL.

My response would not change. I inserted with a clear formatting indicating as such, too.

What exactly do you believe? "Other" implies something to you, no?

Do you consider yourself a Christian?

AMR

 

[chrysostom]

my question for anna
is
will anyone lose their salvation through no fault of their own?

Answering that would mean 1. my belief in what constituted salvation would be different from quite a few and 2. that I still believed there was a salvation. I'm not able to answer at this time.

you can't or won't answer this straight forward question
but
you dare to give grief to knight for his answer to your confused question

 

[ok doser]

You know what I was hoping to hear, Knight?

"you're banned, you whiny little pain in the neck"?

 

[bybee]

maybe you can explain Knight's response to anna in the Ask Knight thread :idunno:

Knight is fully capable of explaining himself should he choose to do so.

 

[chrysostom]

Answering that would mean 1. my belief in what constituted salvation would be different from quite a few

of course

you can only speak for yourself

 

[annabenedetti]

I don't believe anyone's faith is in crisis, here. Just the opposite. I think some people come here and see how weak and helpless all this self-righteous religiosity really is, and their understanding of faith is suddenly forced beyond it. I'm sure it's disconcerting to look in the 'rearview mirror' and see that traditional dogma that one has believed in all their life receding into the hardened dark little nut that it always was, but the view ahead will be far more kind, expansive, and bright, once the eyes clear and adjust to the light of a new day.

The truth be told, most intelligent human beings need to lose their faith to ever really find it. I've got no worries about any of the several folks over the years I've seen come on TOL with a "crisis of faith". Because all they were losing was something they had long outgrown, anyway. And I know that will free them up to find a much more expansive and effective kind of faith, if they want it.

You know, while I understand what you're saying and don't disagree with the essence of it -to me, it is a crisis. But I'm hopeful something good will come of it. And I know that's what you're saying.

 

[annabenedetti]

you can't or won't answer this straight forward question
but
you dare to give grief to knight for his answer to your confused question

Yes, I do dare.

 

[ok doser]

(zoo) said this forum played a large part in his becoming agnostic.

actually:

I was wrong to infer that my decision really had to do with anyone else but myself. I mean, we try to understand, try to interpret the things around us, things, discussions, interactions, people effect us, influence us, we influence one another. My conversations, interactions, observations, whatnot at TOL effect me. But ultimately this is my own, and I don't mean to say otherwise.

 

[Danoh]

Actually, the passage is not what you may be assuming.

Our Lord here was not talking about children in general. Instead, He was speaking of those who have been converted and become like children, that is, new or young believers. We know this because He said “little ones who believe in Me.” But His teaching was not about these young believers. It was about those who relate to them. Specifically, He gave a warning to anyone who would cause a young believer to sin.

So the underlying assumption is that these young ones were actually believers. Given that, the admonition concerns leading them to temptation and sin...not their losing a faith that cannot be lost in the first place.

AMR

Never mind her actual concern, whether or not the passage was just right. Fact is, the Lord looks on the heart.

Her point appears to be the need to consider the impact of our words on others, given that each may not be on the same level as to their own level of being "weak in the faith," Rom. 12:1.

I've been guilty of the same. Hopefully I've toned my own words down some.

 

[chrysostom]

Yes, I do dare.

can you answer your own question?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

actually:

And that post was 3 and a half years ago. Well done.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Never mind her actual concern, whether or not the passage was just right. Fact is, the Lord looks on the heart.

On the contrary it is her actual concern that I am addressing. It appears she believes she lost her faith due to the real or perceived shenanigans at discussion sites, e.g., TOL in particular.

My point is that said "faith" was perhaps not one possessed, but only professed.

AMR

 

[annabenedetti]

And that post was 3 and a half years ago. Well done.

Well done, nothing. sod can't stand zoo, and can't stand me, and anything he can do to suck up to you, he will. You're his bread and butter.

I'm very familiar with the thread. Read zoo's OP. He said his decision had a lot to do with TOL, although he took full responsibility for his decision.

You're totally missing the point, because of sod's deflection.

TOL HAD AN IMPACT on zoo's decision.

 

[chrysostom]

Onthe contrary it is her actual concern that I am addressing. It appears she believes she lost her faith due to the real or perceived shenanigans at discussion sites, e.g., TOL in particular.

My point is that said "faith" was perhaps not one possessed, but only professed.

AMR

does that have anything to do with works?

 

[annabenedetti]

On the contrary it is her actual concern that I am addressing. It appears she believes she lost her faith due to the real or perceived shenanigans at discussion sites, e.g., TOL in particular.

My point is that said "faith" was perhaps not one possessed, but only professed.

AMR

Meaning I was never really a Christian, when I was a Catholic? What a novel idea, I've never heard that one before. :chuckle: I've been damned to hell many times because I wasn't the right kind of Christian.