Conversation with Knight about losing faith

[glorydaz]

My perspective agrees as well. Part of the Christian tradition that I found appealing in years past was the accepting and positive nature surrounding their belief system. That is not reflected here, at all.

Yes, but that "positive nature surrounding their belief system" failed to convince you to put your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, didn't it?

I've talked to several Christians here privately. I trust them.

Christians or those who claim to be Christians? Are you judging them because they're sweet and kind and accept everyone? Are you trusting in those people? :think:

Yes, this forum has been a damaging place for me when it comes to faith.

The fact is that yes, I'm losing my faith.

Maybe you're losing your faith in people.....as you should.

What I'm seeing, Anna, both with you and Quetzal is that you are both looking to people to build up a faith that should not be built. A faith built on a faulty foundation can never stand.

I appreciate your posts and your perspective. Don't be afraid to reach out if you need an ear to vent or whatever. :cheers:

And, don't reach out to someone who has no faith of his own. He's looking in the wrong places, too. He's always so disappointed in these "so called Christians"....they fail him.

I gotta ask--what kind of "faith" are people losing that you are asking Knight about?

That means from Knight's viewpoint other people "losing their faith" in whatever extra-Biblical, man-made doctrine is a good thing, doubly so if they come to believe in Jesus, and Jesus alone, for their salvation (which comes by grace through faith.)

Here. It IS actually a good thing, when you give up on looking to others...when you give up on looking within yourself. You will never find what you're seeking, and you will always be disappointed.

Your faith must be in Jesus alone, as Mocking You says.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

. I know because I was catholic

Me too.

 

[genuineoriginal]

If I spoke about them, I'd be blasted into oblivion by a fair number of so-called Christians.

That is a valid fear.

I have encountered many people that are like that, both in real life and online.

Your reasons do not need to be published for everyone to see, but you do need to find a Christian to talk to that can keep your private life private but is not afraid to speak the truth to you.

If possible, find someone in real life to talk to about these issues.

You were listed as a Catholic for a time, have you considered going to a priest and discussing these matters?

If this is not an option, I would recommend finding a local ministry that caters to people normally shunned by society, like a soup kitchen that helps the homeless or a prison ministry that deals with convicted criminals.
I have found the people in those ministries will be there when you need to talk but few of them will attempt to condemn you for what you are going through.

Some who'd say I was never Christian to begin with,

I do not believe in OSAS, but do believe that every believer will undergo one or more trials of faith.
Whenever you go through a trial of faith, you have the choice to make to continue to believe despite the oppression, tribulation, and mocking that come your way.

I've talked to several Christians here privately. I trust them.

There are Christians on this site that can be trusted.
Some of them would not be on your list of people you think you can trust.

The fact is that yes, I'm losing my faith.

Thank you for finding the courage to admit it.

And from most people here I'd expect only mockery and insults, there are plenty of examples right here in the thread.

I am sure you expected nothing but mockery and insult from me as well.
I reserve those types of responses to people that are puffed up with pride.
I do not mock anyone that is able to open up about a serious problem, like you have here.

Yes, this forum has been a damaging place for me when it comes to faith. There are people here that I care about very much, and it has nothing to do with my relationships with them and everything to do with the corporate Christian message here, from top to bottom.

TOL is biased towards people with the same set of beliefs as the owner, but it is also a place where people can challenge those beliefs and any other beliefs they want to.
I believe TOL is more about allowing people to challenge beliefs than it is about establishing some kind of orthodoxy.
If your beliefs have been challenged, that is a good thing.

If you are undergoing a crisis of faith because your beliefs have been challenged, then it is time to stop and search out the truth.

And while you and I've had our go-rounds here many times, I do appreciate that you actually addressed the issue.

I hope you stick around after you work out your crisis of faith, because I would like to have more go-rounds with you, whether we are both on the same side of an argument or are on opposing sides.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I don't believe anyone's faith is in crisis, here. Just the opposite. I think some people come here and see how weak and helpless all this self-righteous religiosity really is, and their understanding of faith is suddenly forced beyond it. I'm sure it's disconcerting to look in the 'rearview mirror' and see that traditional dogma that one has believed in all their life receding into the hardened dark little nut that it always was, but the view ahead will be far more kind, expansive, and bright, once the eyes clear and adjust to the light of a new day.

The truth be told, most intelligent human beings need to lose their faith to ever really find it. I've got no worries about any of the several folks over the years I've seen come on TOL with a "crisis of faith". Because all they were losing was something they had long outgrown, anyway. And I know that will free them up to find a much more expansive and effective kind of faith, if they want it.

Wow.... that was well said. :up:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

....you simply don't have a clue what you're talking about.

That's entirely possible.

 

[Tambora]

So you want me to fake empathy???? :rotfl:

Liberals do.

Would being disingenuous would make me a better person??

To a liberal, yes.
They thrive on illusion.

Why don't you tell her to fake getting along with me?? :idunno:

Liberals don't take kindly to putting the shoe on the other foot.

 

[ok doser]

If this is not an option, I would recommend finding a local ministry that caters to people normally shunned by society, like a soup kitchen that helps the homeless or a prison ministry that deals with convicted criminals.
I have found the people in those ministries will be there when you need to talk but few of them will attempt to condemn you for what you are going through.

this ^

serving others

turning aside from selfishness to selflessness

this is where anna will find Christ


not in whining about how horrible others are, but by serving others, as horrible as they might be

 

[ok doser]

maybe she'll come back to this :idunno:

anna - do you have faith that Christ will gather in all of His lost sheep, regardless of how butthurt they may have become on the internet?

 

[dialm]

knight is not responsible for anyone
it is your fault
if
you lose your faith
you can't blame anyone
knight has given us a chance to discuss our beliefs
and
for that we owe him our thanks

who will you blame
if
you lose your faith

I don't owe Knight anything. And he doesn't owe me anything.

An eye for an eye baby.

 

[chrysostom]

Does it bother you if even one person loses his faith because of your forum?

the more I think about this question the madder I get
already said it was a compound question
and
for that alone it should be rejected
but
the worse part is it contains a false premise
that
this forum could cause one to lose their faith
and
for most here, that means their salvation
so
my question for anna
is
will anyone lose their salvation through no fault of their own?


btw anna, great thread

 

[ok doser]

the more I think about this question the madder I get

don't get mad

get even

 

[Nick M]

This attitude is astounding to me. Does it reflect your views as a Christian as well? If I could post a poll, I would. I'm interested in what other Christians have to say, and why.

lain:

Knowing you try your hardest to get people to hate God, who the hell cares what you think.

 

[annabenedetti]

Does it bother you if even one person loses his faith because of your forum?

the more I think about this question the madder I get
already said it was a compound question
and
for that alone it should be rejected

I don't have a lot of time right now, but I'll try to get through this with you. I only agreed with you to a point, but I didn't say why, and I should have. It's not really a compound (double-barreled) question, although I can see how you can read it that way.

But there's no "and" in the sentence, so there aren't two options. The question to Knight was: "Does it bother you if even one person loses his faith because of your forum?"

the worse part is it contains a false premise
that
this forum could cause one to lose their faith
and
for most here, that means their salvation
so

I don't consider that a false premise.

my question for anna
is
will anyone lose their salvation through no fault of their own?

Answering that would mean 1. my belief in what constituted salvation would be different from quite a few and 2. that I still believed there was a salvation. I'm not able to answer at this time.

btw anna, great thread

For you, maybe.

 

[annabenedetti]

That is a valid fear.

I have encountered many people that are like that, both in real life and online.

Your reasons do not need to be published for everyone to see, but you do need to find a Christian to talk to that can keep your private life private but is not afraid to speak the truth to you.

If possible, find someone in real life to talk to about these issues.

You were listed as a Catholic for a time, have you considered going to a priest and discussing these matters?

If this is not an option, I would recommend finding a local ministry that caters to people normally shunned by society, like a soup kitchen that helps the homeless or a prison ministry that deals with convicted criminals.
I have found the people in those ministries will be there when you need to talk but few of them will attempt to condemn you for what you are going through.


I do not believe in OSAS, but do believe that every believer will undergo one or more trials of faith.
Whenever you go through a trial of faith, you have the choice to make to continue to believe despite the oppression, tribulation, and mocking that come your way.


There are Christians on this site that can be trusted.
Some of them would not be on your list of people you think you can trust.


Thank you for finding the courage to admit it.


I am sure you expected nothing but mockery and insult from me as well.
I reserve those types of responses to people that are puffed up with pride.
I do not mock anyone that is able to open up about a serious problem, like you have here.


TOL is biased towards people with the same set of beliefs as the owner, but it is also a place where people can challenge those beliefs and any other beliefs they want to.
I believe TOL is more about allowing people to challenge beliefs than it is about establishing some kind of orthodoxy.
If your beliefs have been challenged, that is a good thing.

If you are undergoing a crisis of faith because your beliefs have been challenged, then it is time to stop and search out the truth.


I hope you stick around after you work out your crisis of faith, because I would like to have more go-rounds with you, whether we are both on the same side of an argument or are on opposing sides.

Thank you. I sincerely appreciate your words.

 

[annabenedetti]

Walk away, friend. You'll be better off.

You don't know how happy I am to see you. I understand. I'll write later, when I'm able.

 

[ok doser]

Walk away, friend. You'll be better off.

 

[annabenedetti]

Yes, I see this:

this thread isn't about what I believe, it's about what you believe.

So forgive me for thinking the crisis in faith wasn't about you.

Maybe after reading through the thread you may have come to realize why I said that.

 

[annabenedetti]

He offered her what she wants to hear. Likewise she is saying the things that a guy like Granite and you want to hear.

I am not offering her what she wants to hear because I don't agree with her premise that....

1. Zoo lost his faith because of TOL
2. I should act in the way she wants me to act towards Zoo

You know what I was hoping to hear, Knight?

I was hoping that you cared about people on this forum other than your compadres.

You could have shown some leadership. Some empathy. Some Christian charity. Instead, you do what so many others do on this forum, and in the name of Christian 'truthsmack,' you treat other people like dirt. That's no way to witness, no way to show the light of the Christ in whom you believe to unbelievers.

1. I can't speak for zoo, and you can't speak for zoo. Only zoo can speak for zoo, and he did, and he said this forum played a large part in his becoming agnostic. Your callousness and that of others in this thread rather proves his point.

2. You have a commission, do you not? And if you come back with anything about shaking the dust, I'll say this first:

Shaking the dust doesn't mean "since you don't believe in God after I hit you over the head with my truthsmacking club, I'm now going to mock and belittle you into oblivion and I'm going to give my approval to anyone else who wants to pile on."

 

[Tambora]

TOL has outlasted so many sites.
My guess is that is not due to the site being run wrong.

Run wrong. Say that three times real fast!

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

It's an important topic to me, and your {Knight's} answers are important to me.

Why is Knight's opinion important to you? Why burden him and yourself with such a responsibility, especially on matters of faith?

Let no person be your regula fidei (rule of faith), rather look to Scripture as the only rule of faith and practice in all that you think, do, or say.

AMR