Conspiracy - Are Some Theories Accurate?

[patrick jane]

Hairless Apes & Nuclear Starlight: Creationism vs the Darwinian/Copernican Connection..

From the video description: Recently some people were quite taken aback at my assertion that to believe that stars are composed of the "coalescing of cosmic gases" is essentially to believe in a facet of Cosmic Evolution itself. In this video I endeavor to explain this very simple point.


https://youtu.be/9Ds0P6BjIuM - 15 minutes -

 

[Right Divider]

Flat Earth: "Atlas Shrank" [Celestial/Terrestrial Globes]
https://youtu.be/fNJzfhMn_8c - 15 minute - click on link for full screen

Perspective.... why is it that FEer's cannot understand perspective?

Those tracks must come together in a couple of thousand yards, right?
:french:

 

[patrick jane]

Perspective.... why is it that FEer's cannot understand perspective?

Those tracks must come together in a couple of thousand yards, right?
:french:

We're the ones who understand it, globers don't They're all confused.

 

[Right Divider]

We're the ones who understand it, globers don't They're all confused.

Do you really enjoy being wrong?

Perspective cannot make the sun disappear BELOW the horizon, but it can and does make the effect called crepuscular rays.

 

[patrick jane]

Flat Earth: Stan Deyo, Tesla, Free Energy & Trump's Uncle..



https://youtu.be/YxFIRNHXF3E - 15 minutes

 

[patrick jane]

Do you really enjoy being wrong?

Perspective cannot make the sun disappear BELOW the horizon, but it can and does make the effect called crepuscular rays.

I told you about the massive size of the earth beyond the ice wall and the size and height of the sun, 1,000 miles high. You failed to respond after that. Imagine we're within a circle of ice and the land mass beyond, around the entire ice wall in every direction. Use a thousand miles high, 32-72 miles wide for the sun and about 200,000 for the earth. The land beyond the ice wall could eventually form a square like a circle squared. That could make the four corners of the earth mentioned more than once in scripture. In the circle squared picture imagine what we call earth on the center of the squared circle and forget the pyramid.

 

[Right Divider]

I told you about the massive size of the earth beyond the ice wall and the size and height of the sun, 1,000 miles high. You failed to respond after that.

Nonsense PJ. I have given you every opportunity to give me your flat earth model and I have shown you that no matter what the dimensions, the sun is ALWAYS well ABOVE the horizon at all times.

If perspective really was the answer to "sunset", the sun would get MUCH smaller as it moved away from our view. It does not do that. It remains the SAME size all of the time.

Also note that if the sun were circling a flat earth, we would see the suns path as a curve. We do NOT see that. We see the sun move STRAIGHT across the sky.

Imagine we're within and circle of ice and the land mass beyond, around the entire ice wall in every direction.

Indeed, the flat earth model requires a LOT of imagination.

Use a thousand miles high, 32-72 miles wide for the sun and about 200, for the diameter. The land beyond the ice wall could eventually form a square like a circle squared. That could make the four corners of the earth mentioned more than once in scripture. In the circle squared picture imagine what we call earth on the center of the squared circle and forget the pyramid.

I have no idea what you're trying to prove with this diagram.

 

[patrick jane]

Nonsense PJ. I have given you every opportunity to give me your flat earth model and I have shown you that no matter what the dimensions, the sun is ALWAYS well ABOVE the horizon at all times.

If perspective really was the answer to "sunset", the sun would get MUCH smaller as it moved away from our view. It does not do that. It remains the SAME size all of the time.

Also note that if the sun were circling a flat earth, we would see the suns path as a curve. We do NOT see that. We see the sun move STRAIGHT across the sky.


Indeed, the flat earth model requires a LOT of imagination.


I have no idea what you're trying to prove with this diagram.

Nonsense, RD. You can't understand what I'm saying. Nobody knows how large the earth plane is. I said take the 207,000 mile figure YOU came up with and the sun at 1,000 miles high and 32-72 miles wide. Do your math on the angles and see. God says the sun runs a circuit and hastens back to the place. The sun goes out of sight and around creating night and day. Can't you imagine the flat earth you've seen now a thousand times and picture that circle surrounded by thousands of ice. Can you you see the circle within the square? That doesn't matter if the massive land mass beyond the ice wall that surrounds us eventually forms a square around the circle or if it remains circular or not. Read my previous post again and the images. Two of them show how a circle squared might look and the other is the flat earth type map but doesn't show just how much frozen land surrounds the ice wall. If you still don't get it that's fine.

Ecclesiastes 1:5 KJV - [FONT=&quot]The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.[/FONT]

 

[Right Divider]

Nonsense, RD. You can't understand what I'm saying. Nobody knows how large the earth plane is. I said take the 207,000 mile figure YOU came up with and the sun at 1,000 miles high and 32-72 miles wide.

PJ, I did NOT come up with 207,000 miles. That came from the numbers that YOU were giving me. This came from YOUR confusion between diameter and circumference. Those two are very easy to understand, so I'm still surprised that this still causes you confusion.

Also PJ, we can determine the size of the earth based on various methods. Airplanes fly at a KNOWN speed for a KNOWN time at KNOWN angles.... so it's easy to MEASURE those distances.

If the flat earth were over 200,000 miles in diameter, then the flights that we know exist between major cites would be a FAR, FAR greater distance than the distances that we CAN measure.

Do your math on the angles and see. God says the sun runs a circuit and hastens back to the place. The sun goes out of sight and around creating night and day.

The sun NEVER goes "out of sight" on a flat earth PJ. I've shown you this numerable times.

Can't you imagine the flat earth you've seen now a thousand times and picture that circle surrounded by thousands of ice. Can you you see the circle within the square? That doesn't matter if the massive land mass beyond the ice wall that surrounds us eventually forms a square around the circle or if it remains circular or not. Read my previous post again and the images. Two of them show how a circle squared might look and the other is the flat earth type map but doesn't show just how much frozen land surrounds the ice wall. If you still don't get it that's fine.

I can "imagine" it. But it's just not true based upon far too many irrefutable facts that you ignore.

Ecclesiastes 1:5 KJV - The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

The sun never RISES or SETS on a flat earth. The sun is ALWAYS well ABOVE the horizon.

The only conspiracy here is those that are trying to fool people into believing the earth is flat.

 

[patrick jane]

Also PJ, we can determine the size of the earth based on various methods. Airplanes fly at a KNOWN speed for a KNOWN time at KNOWN angles.... so it's easy to MEASURE those distances.

If the flat earth were over 200,000 miles in diameter, then the flights that we know exist between major cites would be a FAR, FAR greater distance than the distances that we CAN measure.

No, there are parts of the flat earth we've never been to so no planes go there. See? Now use the 200,000 and the 1,000 mile sun that's 32-72 miles wide, those are my numbers although eart could be even bigger. The sun hasteth back to the place it arose according to the Bible. You probably already did and you realize that nobody on earth AT Night can see the sun. Read my posts in the Biblical thread for more clarification. Your nasa buddies nor anyone can measure the WHOLE flat earth beyond the ice wall yet, period. Forget the numbers and the math for that circle in a square image AND forget the pyramid. Instead picture the flat earth circle in the square, NOT the pyramid.

 

[Town Heretic]

Has anyone come up with a single-sock conspiracy theory tied into the international garment and dryer industry?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Has anyone come up with a single-sock conspiracy theory tied into the international garment and dryer industry?

Darned impudence!

:nono:

 

[Right Divider]

No, there are parts of the flat earth we've never been to so no planes go there. See?

You don't need to go everywhere with a plane to calculate the greatest possible distance of the sun from an observer. I have explained BEFORE that even flat earthers know the EXTENT of the sun travels NORTH and SOUTH and the approximate distance between those two. These are the two EXTREMES where the sun is DIRECTLY overhead. Since we know for CERTAIN the limits of THESE extents, we can determine the FARTHEST possible distance that an observers can be from the sun.

The actual size of the flat earth outside of these bounds is IRRELEVANT to the FARTHEST distance an observer can be FROM THE SUN.

Now use the 200,000 and the 1,000 mile sun that's 32-72 miles wide, those are my numbers although eart could be even bigger.

With the kind of non-facts that you throw out, it's impossible to actually discuss real things with you. Are you just going to keep trying to make the earth larger and larger until geometry and trigonometry change into unicorns and fairy dust?

The sun hasteth back to the place it arose according to the Bible.

Which is exactly what we SEE on the globe earth.

You probably already did and you realize that nobody on earth AT Night can see the sun.

Once AGAIN, that is IMPOSSIBLE on the flat earth. Even with your ridiculous 200 K mile earth, the sun will still be ~0.34 degrees ABOVE the horizon and ~170,000 miles away.

The sun would become A TINY DOT long before is could "disappear over the horizon". The sun and the moon are the SAME SIZE all day long. Get out of your mom's basement and take a look.

Flat earth BUSTED.

Read my posts in the Biblical thread for more clarification. Your nasa buddies nor anyone can measure the WHOLE flat earth beyond the ice wall yet, period. Forget the numbers and the math for that circle in a square image AND forget the pyramid. Instead picture the flat earth circle in the square, NOT the pyramid.

Guilt by false association is just another of the many fallacies that you like to promote.

I have SPECIFICALLY stuck so SIMPLE math to prove your bogus "theory" incorrect. The math is so SIMPLE, that you can prove it yourself, but you won't.

You have not ONCE looked at the actual SIMPLE math and prefer false accusations instead.

 

[patrick jane]

Y


Which is exactly what we SEE on the globe earth.


Once AGAIN, that is IMPOSSIBLE on the flat earth. Even with your ridiculous 200 K mile earth, the sun will still be ~0.34 degrees ABOVE the horizon and ~170,000 miles away.

The sun would become A TINY DOT long before is could "disappear over the horizon". The sun and the moon are the SAME SIZE all day long. Get out of your mom's basement and take a look.

Flat earth BUSTED.


Guilt by false association is just another of the many fallacies that you like to promote.

I have SPECIFICALLY stuck so SIMPLE math to prove your bogus "theory" incorrect. The math is so SIMPLE, that you can prove it yourself, but you won't.

You have not ONCE looked at the actual SIMPLE math and prefer false accusations instead.

Totally wrong, thanks for playing. The sun's circuit could go 200,000 miles away at sunset, and he "hasteth back to where he arose" - According the Bible, the sun has a "circuit to run", but God NEVER mentions a circuit or path for the earth. You keep hanging on that small dot thing because it's all you got. You can't imagine anything different but I can. You're stuck on the false math of Copernicus, Newton and Erastothenes, and that's exactly why you can't figure it out. Stick to that angle of the sun, cased closed for YOU.

Simple math? 500 pages to try "explaining" magical gravity, 2,300 year old measurement technique, (because he misunderstood shadows) and a planet sized chalk board filled with "equations" - They made the math fit the globe. You also PRETEND that the flat earth is just like Kansas, no mountains or hills, and an "unlimited line of sight" and the angles you come with to keep your argument alive. Let me know if you ever see what I'm trying to explain. :e4e:

Venture out of the retirement home and take good a look around. :chuckle:

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

The same with satellite companies and conglomerates. Only a few would know everything, some employees would program them or assemble and install components on the device, some would launch it and where it will sit. (I think most satellites stay in place). That eliminates that large group of lying Christians. Beside governments and leaders of nations, (and possibly not many would know) would know everything. Narrow that scope of knowledge even further with isolated levels of knowledge (which is generally how things work in any organization in management, upper management etc,) and it's certainly possible. Maybe easy, in fact,and definitely not impossible.

I once worked for Motorola and its launch of the Iridium low-earth-orbit satellite system. Am well aware of the orbital dynamics and programming required as I led the team that created the satellite to ground station and mobile station software that makes it all happen. Are you saying that I was deceived by some few within the engineering team that were "in on it" and they somehow took the actual code we created and modified it for flat earth realities, all the while leaving the rest of us in the dark? That would be quite a feat, especially given the regression testing that takes place when software is integrated with actual hardware on the satellite itself.

Where is [MENTION=13042]rocketman[/MENTION] when you need him? I am sure he can weigh in on what I have stated above, too.

AMR

 

[Right Divider]

Totally wrong, thanks for playing. The sun's circuit could go 200,000 miles away at sunset, and he "hasteth back to where he arose" -

Even at 200,000 miles, the sun would STILL be ABOVE the horizon and VISIBLE with a telescope.

Why do you continue to ignore this fact?

According the Bible, the sun has a "circuit to run", but God NEVER mentions a circuit or path for the earth.

And the Bible typically uses the earth AS THE REFERENCE. The sun APPEARS to move around the earth when the EARTH is used AS THE REFERENCE.

You keep hanging on that small dot thing because it's all you got.

More baloney. It is YOUR model that requires the sun to get SMALLER as it gets FARTHER away. That is so simple that a child can understand it, why can't you?
You can do this experiment yourself to prove that the circling sun MUST get smaller as it gets farther away.

You'll probably just reject the facts AGAIN.

You can't imagine anything different but I can.

Your imagination is NOT accurate and cannot stand the facts.

You're stuck on the false math of Copernicus, Newton and Erastothenes, and that's exactly why you can't figure it out. Stick to that angle of the sun, cased closed for YOU.

Nope, you've been shown a NUMBER of things that FALSIFY the flat earth model. But you are ignoring or lying about them.

Simple math? 500 pages to try "explaining" magical gravity, 2,300 year old measurement technique, (because he misunderstood shadows) and a planet sized chalk board filled with "equation" - they made the math fit the globe. You also PRETEND that the flat earth is just like Kansas, no mountains or hill, "unlimited line of sight" and the angles you come with to keep your argument alive. Let me know if you ever see what I'm trying to explain. :e4e:

I already understand what you are saying, it is you that needs to understand geometry and trigonometry.

BTW, your flat earth needs a force to keep things from floating away also. So call it what you want but gravity is the name that is commonly used. Weight is an EFFECT of the FORCE that attracts things to the ground and is proportional to the objects masses. Density is mass per unit space. Again, thees are simple things that you cannot understand.

 

[patrick jane]

And the Bible typically uses the earth AS THE REFERENCE. The sun APPEARS to move around the earth when the EARTH is used AS THE REFERENCE.



Your imagination is NOT accurate and cannot stand the facts.


Nope, you've been shown a NUMBER of things that FALSIFY the flat earth model. But you are ignoring or lying about them.


I already understand what you are saying, it is you that needs to understand geometry and trigonometry.

BTW, your flat earth needs a force to keep things from floating away also. So call it what you want but gravity is the name that is commonly used. Weight is an EFFECT of the FORCE that attracts things to the ground and is proportional to the objects masses. Density is mass per unit space. Again, thees are simple things that you cannot understand.

Trig, calculus, and geometry have been proven wrong and people deny seeing anything beyond a 25,000 mile earth. In the pictures here, you'll see that the borders of the images are square with a circle inside. Nobody knows how vast the land is nor what's out there and where the "end" is. Imagine the land going past the border of the square, far beyond the square border with the circle inside. The four corners could sticking out, just outside the circle, it doesn't matter if the entire earth including what WE CAN'T GET TO IS ROUND OR SQUARE OR BOTH.

Quote :"And the Bible typically uses the earth AS THE REFERENCE. The sun APPEARS to move around the earth when the EARTH is used AS THE REFERENCE." end quote -

Some think the Bible "typically uses" the earth as "the reference" because mankind is so stupid and that's why everybody thought it was flat and enclosed for thousands of years. You're saying that God knew we couldn't possibly understand creation unless He told a different story to Moses, Job, Isaiah, Enoch, David, and every other Bible author, because they cant handle the truth. God knew we would finally, eventually understand thanks to NASA, Copernicus, Erastothenes, Carl Sagan, Stephen Hawking and "science and math" - Then 2300 years ago we measured the earth perfectly with a stick, a shadow and the sun. We changed the math recently and before that, maybe about 500 years ago somebody decided we're flying and spinning in a "solar system" around the sun with a "bunch of other planets". :rotfl:


The tried and true "system" is the thing that's lying and deceiving and using 500 pages to "describe" gravity, a huge chalk board full of equations, shadows and angles and everybody thinks the moon is lit by the sun, which is impossible. It's hard to grasp when you've been indoctrinated since being a toddler, I'm familiar and aware because I was too. It's God's creation and it's amazing. I'm of the belief that GOD selects the exact best possible words that are plain and clear and easiest to understand. The Bible IS NOT "TYPICALLY" using earth as a reference FOR WHAT THINGS APPEAR TO BE BUT ARE NOT. Not my GOD. Do you think God was using parables and allegories and misleading "stories" in all of the creation accounts to so many Bible authors? I don't.

Some say God told us the sun moves around the earth, the earth is a tabernacle for the sun, the sun has his circuit, the sun returns to the place he arose, and those were all lies from God. Either that or we weren't ready back then to hear about the quadrillions of galaxies, stars and planets, a googol plex plex maybe. God is clear throughout the scriptures, why not with the earth and firmament? As far as a "force" there is magnetic force and "pull" at the north pole, not the south because there is no "south pole" per se. There are also electromagnetic forces proven to exist. No "force" is required except weight, buoyancy, density, and aerodynamics. Nothing can "float away" in a flat earth as you imagine. This is God we're talking about, not Copernicus. No magical made up gravity required because it doesn't exist.

The solar system with planets being 14 billion light years across where life could exist elsewhere was the basis for selling the "evolution" concept. Yeah, the earth 4.5 Billion years old and we evolved from monkeys and single cell organisms. The "universe" , dark matter, gravity, light, and EVERYTHING BANGED INTO EXISTENCE 14 BILLION YEARS AGO FROM NOTHING, NO GOD REQUIRED ANYMORE. WE'RE FREE. If people think that's possible then my interpretations are harmless in comparison. God's word combined with undeniable physical and scientific PROOF of flat earth has me persuaded and I will always believe it's possible.

In the image above, pretend the ball in the middle is flat and surrounded 360 degrees by an ice wall. The outermost circle and the square are FROZEN LAND extending possible far beyond the entire image. The smaller inner circle is where the inhabitable earth as we know it.

In the picture above: Two captain's took ships around the entire ice wall. One recorded 60,000 miles, the other recorded 70,000 miles. I'd say 66,000 or more.

THE SUN DOES GET SMALLER AT SUNSET AND BIGGER AS NOON APPROACHES. IT GETS SMALLER AT SUNSET BEFORE IT VANISHES BEYOND OUR SIGHT. SO EASY A BABY GENIUS COULD UNDERSTAND. THINK ABOUT IT AND IT'S PROVEN ON VIDEO, SEE FOR YOURSLELF, THE SUN DOES NOT HAVE TO BECOME A TINY DOT BEFORE WE LOSE SIGHT OF IT OVER THE HORIZON. CAN A GROWN MAN UNDERSTAND? WE'LL SEE, STAY TUNED.

 

[patrick jane]

I once worked for Motorola and its launch of the Iridium low-earth-orbit satellite system. Am well aware of the orbital dynamics and programming required as I led the team that created the satellite to ground station and mobile station software that makes it all happen. Are you saying that I was deceived by some few within the engineering team that were "in on it" and they somehow took the actual code we created and modified it for flat earth realities, all the while leaving the rest of us in the dark? That would be quite a feat, especially given the regression testing that takes place when software is integrated with actual hardware on the satellite itself.

Where is @rocketman when you need him? I am sure he can weigh in on what I have stated above, too.

AMR

You've never seen the curvature of the earth and neither has a satellite. You may very well know every possible intricate detail about every aspect of satellites. If you did, you'd be "in on it." I assume you don't, so until you do, you haven't proven anything, just like me. I've debated with The Berean who has degrees in satellites and related knowledge and I don't think Rocketman can prove anything either. You do understand about level of knowledge within groups and organizations don't you? For instance, the janitor there wasn't privy to the details of you and your team's specifications was he? The people who know the whole truth are kept to a minimum with death likely and harm or death for their entire families if they slipped up.

Who would believe them anyway, right? It's all a big joke to 98% of the "globe" as it is. Something is being hidden in Antarctica and the north pole area for over a hundred years and maybe more. Millions of folks think so, I didn't make all this up. although I have thought of several things before I saw it anywhere else. Perhaps nobody on the flat earth knows exactly what is down there and how vast it is. It still can't be told to the "people" especially if they do know exactly what's out there. I'm not convincing anyone here or anywhere else but I think it's worth debating. Thanks AMR. :e4e:

BTW: Did you orbital dynamics keep the satellite in one place or did circumnavigate the "globe" or move at all? I understand if you know all the details to program it, and all about orbital dynamics etc., but what exactly did you program it to do? Do you recall?

 

[Town Heretic]

PJ doesn't really believe this guys. He's just having some fun. The Greeks destroyed the flat earth nonsense a very long time ago using nothing more complicated than sunlight and a few sticks. Or you could take a look at observable planetary motions. Just so many easy ways to laugh off the effort of people who are trying to misinterpret scripture or advance paranoia to an art form.

Here's another idea from 7 DIY experiments you can perform to end any personal debate.

"As detailed by the folks at MinutePhysics, the horizon is one of the easiest ways to validate the Earth’s curvature. As the sun dips behind the horizon, it slips from your view in a bottom-up direction. If you watch the sunset while lying on your back, and then hop up as the last rays disappear, then you should be able to see the sunset again.
The same pattern applies to ships as they sail away — their hulls disappear from the bottom up. As MinutePhysics points out, if the Earth didn’t curve and the horizon didn’t exist, when you looked at Chicago from across Lake Michigan, you’d be able to see the the Rocky Mountains."

Of course you could just look at photos we have from actual space, but then that's another problem the nutter crowd has advancing their flag, it requires additional nonsense and collusion that just defies human nature and history.

So, as a source of fun it's great. As a serious debate, not so much.

 

[patrick jane]

PJ doesn't really believe this guys. He's just having some fun. The Greeks destroyed the flat earth nonsense a very long time ago using nothing more complicated than sunlight and a few sticks. Or you could take a look at observable planetary motions. Just so many easy ways to laugh off the effort of people who are trying to misinterpret scripture or advance paranoia to an art form.

Here's another idea from 7 DIY experiments you can perform to end any personal debate.

"As detailed by the folks at MinutePhysics, the horizon is one of the easiest ways to validate the Earth’s curvature. As the sun dips behind the horizon, it slips from your view in a bottom-up direction. If you watch the sunset while lying on your back, and then hop up as the last rays disappear, then you should be able to see the sunset again.
The same pattern applies to ships as they sail away — their hulls disappear from the bottom up. As MinutePhysics points out, if the Earth didn’t curve and the horizon didn’t exist, when you looked at Chicago from across Lake Michigan, you’d be able to see the the Rocky Mountains."

Of course you could just look at photos we have from actual space, but then that's another problem the nutter crowd has advancing their flag, it requires additional nonsense and collusion that just defies human nature and history.

So, as a source of fun it's great. As a serious debate, not so much.

Fake photos and every one of your "arguments" fails. Look at other posts in a thread before you decide to start blessing with your brilliance. It's all been covered and science fails miserably every time. The scriptures cannot be refuted either. I'm absolutely serious about this topic and my belief that it's possible. That's all I'm saying is it's possible. Anybody that thinks it's impossible shouldn't feel compelled to respond with drivel and "points" that are flawed or wrong. I'm taking the time to refute anyone that's serious about the topic and you're not one them. Get the very best evidence you can find and prove we're on a ball including scripture if you want to include that. Personally, If I thought it was IMPOSSIBLE, I would ignore the thread and not waste my time like I did with DFT Dave's thread. I thought it was useless nonsense until 3 weeks ago. Poop or get off the pot Town Man.