Conspiracy - Are Some Theories Accurate?

[patrick jane]

Just post a specific argument or two, either a time stamp or caption.

1. At 1:20 - How does the north star and every star and constellation remain fixed for thousands of years and in the same orbit westward around polaris? We know the north moves slightly in a circle but for the most part it's fixed above the north pole, the center of the earth.

2. Most places on earth do not get exposed to 12 hours of sunlight per day as you would expect on a globe.

3. I we're on a spinning flying ball maintaining the same speed, there should be equal 12 hour days and nights everywhere edit from me: most of the year round.
Does Earth’s orbit speed up and slow down when its closer/farther from the Sun, like the Moon’s orbit?
Yes! Earth orbits the Sun at an average distance of 149.6 million kilometers every 365.2564 days. The orbital speed of the Earth averages 29.78 km/s (107,200 km/hr), which is fast enough to move its own diameter length (about 12,600 km) in seven minutes (and the distance to the Moon (384,000 km) in four hours-- taken, in part from Wikipedia). On January 3, 2011, when the Earth was at its closest to the Sun (perihelion, 147.1 million kilometers), it was traveling at 30.29 km/s. On July 4, 2011, when the Earth was farthest from the Sun (aphelion, 152.1 million kilometers) it was traveling at 30.29 km/s.
FAQ - Earth | Planetary Science Institute - I don't really trust this or Wikipedia or nasa for that matter, why no 12 hour days and nights on most of the world?



4. The wide variety of length of day and night in different latitudes means throughout the year means we're not on a spinning ball.

5. The midnight sun happens in the Arctic but not the Antarctic, from 71 degrees south latitude the sun sets on May 17th and is not seen again on the horizon until June 21st. This is exactly what you'd expect and a flat earth. Globers will claim this isn't true and the Antarctic DOES get a Midnight sun. The problem with that assertion is, NOBODY can go down and check independently and there's only one video with footage of this midnight sun in the southern hemisphere. It's believed to be Fake.

6.

 

[patrick jane]

THE UPCOMING DECEPTION IS NEAR!https://youtu.be/DOxWSNzpDmI - 8 minutes - click on link for full screen view -

Things you didn't know - Strange Things Happening

Very interesting video showing some of the Illuminati Game Cards that have come true and predictions yet to come. @jsanford108 - Only 8 minutes

 

[Clete]

You provided links that prove satellites exist and we can see them. You did not prove to me, in my mind that a satellite can circumnavigate the poles. If you did, I didn't see it. So I'm a liar now and you're not, but you ARE a psychic or a prophet. Or a weatherman. Yes, everybody can see the posts and your links, thankfully.

Every single link didn't just discuss sattelites but polar orbiting satellites. Some where scientific papers that discuss things that could not be accomplished without polar orbiting satellites, so yes, you lied, PJ! You never had any intention of allowing anything at all of moving you one single inch away from this flat earth stupidity. I literally have no doubt at all that if someone took you personally into orbit, you'd believe anything before you'd accept that you were actually in orbit. You'd be convinced that they had drugged you or something just to shut you up and keep you divulging their secrets on the internet. And if not that, something else. Anything at all is preferable in your mind than the outlandish and satanically conceived, evil idea that the Earth is a sphere!

 

[WizardofOz]

1. At 1:20 - How does the north star and every star and constellation remain fixed for thousands of years and in the same orbit westward around polaris?

This is a good question:

the North Star does move. If you took its picture, you’d find that it makes its own little circle around the exact point of the north celestial pole every day. That’s because the North Star is really offset a little – by about three-quarters of a degree – from celestial north. Where does this movement – or in Polaris’ case, lack of movement – come from? Earth spins under the sky once a day. Earth’s spin causes the sun in the daytime – and the stars at night – to rise in the east and set in the west. But the North Star is a special case. Because it lies almost exactly above Earth’s northern axis, it’s like the hub of a wheel. It doesn’t rise or set. Instead, it appears to stay put in the northern sky. What’s more, the star we know as Polaris hasn’t been the only North Star. A motion of Earth called precession causes our axis to trace out an imaginary circle on the celestial sphere every 26,000 years. Thousands of years ago, when the pyramids were rising from the sands of ancient Egypt, the North Star was an inconspicuous star called Thuban in the constellation Draco the Dragon. Twelve thousand years from now, the blue-white star Vega in the constellation Lyra will be a much brighter North Star than our current Polaris. Polaris could be a name for any North Star. Our current Polaris used to be called Phoenice.

So, the 'North Star' could be any star that is in this 'fixed' area in relation to the Earth's northern axis.

2. Most places on earth do not get exposed to 12 hours of sunlight per day as you would expect on a globe.

3. I we're on a spinning flying ball maintaining the same speed, there should be equal 12 hour days and nights everywhere edit from me: most of the year round.

2 & 3 are effectively the same argument. Simply, there is no reason to expect all parts of the world to get equal light/day throughout a 24-hour period due to the tilt of the earth in relation to the sun.

If you are tilted away from the sun, you will see shorter days than if your hemisphere is tilted towards the sun.

Assuming equal 12 hour day/night cycles shows a misunderstanding of basic globe earth cosmology. You would have to explain why you assume that a 24-hour day should be equal parts light and dark every day of the year.

4. The wide variety of length of day and night in different latitudes means throughout the year means we're not on a spinning ball.

False assumption - it simply means that the earth is tilted in relation to the sun.
https://imgur.com/a/VimB6

5. The midnight sun happens in the Arctic but not the Antarctic, from 71 degrees south latitude the sun sets on May 17th and is not seen again on the horizon until June 21st. This is exactly what you'd expect and a flat earth. Globers will claim this isn't true and the Antarctic DOES get a Midnight sun. The problem with that assertion is, NOBODY can go down and check independently and there's only one video with footage of this midnight sun in the southern hemisphere. It's believed to be Fake.

Antarctica's Midnight Sun - it's a go-pro at a research station in Antarctica. So yeah, it's been checked and verified and makes complete sense given the Earth's tilt changing in relation to the sun from North to South.

Refer back to the picture above. The picture on the far left would result in the Antarctic midnight sun, whereas the picture on the right would result in the Arctic winter sun.

Further if this is your model of the sun orbiting above a flat earth, why is the arctic cold? It's getting more sun exposure than the areas we know are warm near the equator.

Come to think of it, wow does a flat earth model explain how areas around the equator are so warm on average? Areas we know are colder on average are getting almost twice as much sun exposure. This doesn't line up with what we know about our climate.

 

[patrick jane]

This is a good question:

the North Star does move. If you took its picture, you’d find that it makes its own little circle around the exact point of the north celestial pole every day. That’s because the North Star is really offset a little – by about three-quarters of a degree – from celestial north. Where does this movement – or in Polaris’ case, lack of movement – come from? Earth spins under the sky once a day. Earth’s spin causes the sun in the daytime – and the stars at night – to rise in the east and set in the west. But the North Star is a special case. Because it lies almost exactly above Earth’s northern axis, it’s like the hub of a wheel. It doesn’t rise or set. Instead, it appears to stay put in the northern sky. What’s more, the star we know as Polaris hasn’t been the only North Star. A motion of Earth called precession causes our axis to trace out an imaginary circle on the celestial sphere every 26,000 years. Thousands of years ago, when the pyramids were rising from the sands of ancient Egypt, the North Star was an inconspicuous star called Thuban in the constellation Draco the Dragon. Twelve thousand years from now, the blue-white star Vega in the constellation Lyra will be a much brighter North Star than our current Polaris. Polaris could be a name for any North Star. Our current Polaris used to be called Phoenice.

So, the 'North Star' could be any star that is in this 'fixed' area in relation to the Earth's northern axis.



2 & 3 are effectively the same argument. Simply, there is no reason to expect all parts of the world to get equal light/day throughout a 24-hour period due to the tilt of the earth in relation to the sun.

If you are tilted away from the sun, you will see shorter days than if your hemisphere is tilted towards the sun.

Assuming equal 12 hour day/night cycles shows a misunderstanding of basic globe earth cosmology. You would have to explain why you assume that a 24-hour day should be equal parts light and dark every day of the year.



False assumption - it simply means that the earth is tilted in relation to the sun.
https://imgur.com/a/VimB6



Antarctica's Midnight Sun - it's a go-pro at a research station in Antarctica. So yeah, it's been checked and verified and makes complete sense given the Earth's tilt changing in relation to the sun from North to South.

Refer back to the picture above. The picture on the far left would result in the Antarctic midnight sun, whereas the picture on the right would result in the Arctic winter sun.

Further if this is your model of the sun orbiting above a flat earth, why is the arctic cold? It's getting more sun exposure than the areas we know are warm near the equator.

Come to think of it, wow does a flat earth model explain how areas around the equator are so warm on average? Areas we know are colder on average are getting almost twice as much sun exposure. This doesn't line up with what we know about our climate.

Real quick, as I haven't absorbed your entire post yet, I know the north star is not exactly "fixed" but does move in a small circle above north pole. I meant to put that in my post. I also forgot to put time stamps on the last 4 points. After lunch I'll try to answer your post more. You made some good points.

 

[patrick jane]

Short video demonstrating the our solar system flying through space orbiting the sun. This is not the same video I posted in another thread.


[h=1]Our Galaxy is a vortex - The helical model -[/h]Do you believe this is a true model of our movement? (Not to scale)
https://youtu.be/rx42lrkYgmo - 6 minutes - click on link for full screen

 

[WizardofOz]

Another good photo to visualize the earth's tilt in relation to the sun and why there should be no expectations of an exact 12-hour day/night cycle

 

[patrick jane]

This is a good question:

the North Star does move. If you took its picture, you’d find that it makes its own little circle around the exact point of the north celestial pole every day. That’s because the North Star is really offset a little – by about three-quarters of a degree – from celestial north. Where does this movement – or in Polaris’ case, lack of movement – come from? Earth spins under the sky once a day. Earth’s spin causes the sun in the daytime – and the stars at night – to rise in the east and set in the west. But the North Star is a special case. Because it lies almost exactly above Earth’s northern axis, it’s like the hub of a wheel. It doesn’t rise or set. Instead, it appears to stay put in the northern sky. What’s more, the star we know as Polaris hasn’t been the only North Star. A motion of Earth called precession causes our axis to trace out an imaginary circle on the celestial sphere every 26,000 years. Thousands of years ago, when the pyramids were rising from the sands of ancient Egypt, the North Star was an inconspicuous star called Thuban in the constellation Draco the Dragon. Twelve thousand years from now, the blue-white star Vega in the constellation Lyra will be a much brighter North Star than our current Polaris. Polaris could be a name for any North Star. Our current Polaris used to be called Phoenice.

So, the 'North Star' could be any star that is in this 'fixed' area in relation to the Earth's northern axis.



2 & 3 are effectively the same argument. Simply, there is no reason to expect all parts of the world to get equal light/day throughout a 24-hour period due to the tilt of the earth in relation to the sun.



If you are tilted away from the sun, you will see shorter days than if your hemisphere is tilted towards the sun.

Assuming equal 12 hour day/night cycles shows a misunderstanding of basic globe earth cosmology. You would have to explain why you assume that a 24-hour day should be equal parts light and dark every day of the year.



False assumption - it simply means that the earth is tilted in relation to the sun.
https://imgur.com/a/VimB6

Antarctica's Midnight Sun - it's a go-pro at a research station in Antarctica. So yeah, it's been checked and verified and makes complete sense given the Earth's tilt changing in relation to the sun from North to South.

Refer back to the picture above. The picture on the far left would result in the Antarctic midnight sun, whereas the picture on the right would result in the Arctic winter sun.

Further if this is your model of the sun orbiting above a flat earth, why is the arctic cold? It's getting more sun exposure than the areas we know are warm near the equator.

Come to think of it, wow does a flat earth model explain how areas around the equator are so warm on average? Areas we know are colder on average are getting almost twice as much sun exposure. This doesn't line up with what we know about our climate.

I checked already and your video from McMurdo is believed to be simulated according to many comments below the video. Before I read them I thought that it wasn't proving anything substantially. As for the tilt stuff, certain adjustments must be made by science to make a heliocentric model that can explain the sun and moon and seasons. The other short video didn't do anything for me either.

What I'm learning is that globers and FE's will always have their own material to debunk the globe and vice versa. It will always come down to what do you believe inside yourself. Since most globers think flat earth is impossible they fail to see the accuracy and simplicity of God's creation in a flat earth model. It's a stalemate every time so the point is becoming moot.

I think the video I posted is more thorough and accurate containing much more evidence than your responses, although I am biased towards a flat earth view. I simply think it's possible and 99% of the world "knows for sure" it isn't. It remains a hot topic even in this day and age. The flat earth could have a "tilt" as well. :idunno:

 

[WizardofOz]

I checked already and your video from McMurdo is believed to be simulated according to many comments below the video. Before I read them I thought that it wasn't proving anything substantially.

If there is a 24 hour sun at the south and north pole and different times of the year, then the earth cannot be flat.

Here is another video of the same phenomena at the south pole. Taken by the University of New South Wales

In order to believe in the flat earth you have to believe that millions of people are in on the conspiracy.

As for the tilt stuff, certain adjustments must be made by science to make a heliocentric model that can explain the sun and moon and seasons. The other short video didn't do anything for me either.

Because it makes your view untenable. Rather than dismissing it with the wave of a hand, explain how these phenomena are explained with a flat earth model. Why isn't it warmer at the north pole than it is at the equator given, with your model, there is more sun exposure at the north pole?

What I'm learning is that globers and FE's will always have their own material to debunk the globe and vice versa. It will always come down to what do you believe inside yourself. Since most globers think flat earth is impossible they fail to see the accuracy and simplicity of God's creation in a flat earth model. It's a stalemate every time so the point is becoming moot.

It really isn't as, like I said before, you can test these experiments yourself. Lie down and watch the sun set. Then stand up and watch it set again. Not possible with a flat earth. The stick experiment proves curvature. The seasons proves curvature. Why ships, etc disappear from the bottom up proves curvature.

I think the video I posted is more thorough and accurate containing much more evidence than your responses, although I am biased towards a flat earth view. I simply think it's possible and 99% of the world "knows for sure" it isn't. It remains a hot topic even in this day and age. The flat earth could have a "tilt" as well. :idunno:

Yeah, there is literally nothing that can convince you that you're mistaken so I'll just go on with my life. :wave:

I'll leave you with this. Proving the Curvature of the Earth Yourself with Nothing But a Ladder

 

[patrick jane]

Antarctica's Midnight Sun - it's a go-pro at a research station in Antarctica. So yeah, it's been checked and verified and makes complete sense given the Earth's tilt changing in relation to the sun from North to South.

Refer back to the picture above. The picture on the far left would result in the Antarctic midnight sun, whereas the picture on the right would result in the Arctic winter sun.

Further if this is your model of the sun orbiting above a flat earth, why is the arctic cold? It's getting more sun exposure than the areas we know are warm near the equator.

Come to think of it, wow does a flat earth model explain how areas around the equator are so warm on average? Areas we know are colder on average are getting almost twice as much sun exposure. This doesn't line up with what we know about our climate.

Live your life? Was I stopping you?You won the debate because I can't prove a flat earth so I'm doing this now for nothing. It's stupidity, crazy and ignorant, I know. It's the craziest thing anybody can say or think, I can't control that. This is your best evidence and here are some comments from the video:

FlatEresearcher11 months ago

one really funny thing that the fakers forgot to account for in this video, is that the sun would not be doing that motion in the south if the camera was fixed in position as is evident in this video, you always see the building and the camera is not following the sun. What should be seen in the sky is the sun zigzagging, as the earth revolves under it, and for half of it's revolution the sun would be going in one direction, and for the other half the sun would be going in the opposite direction in the sky, so it would look like a zig zag. test this out yourself folks with a stationary simulated sun and you spinning.

Cyprustar Video1 year ago

and for everybody; it's normal than the sun is coming by the right it's because he's on the capricorn tropic. So he's gone and at 03:17 (for exemple) the nasa sun simulator replace him


At 03:17 the sun is replace by the nasa sunlight simulator


Emmanuel11 months ago

something is really suspect about this video. it shows the suns circle to be too tight to be antarctica midnight sun. its too bright. theres not enough info in this video to say exactly what is happening or where this is. it gives no timestamp, no lattitude or longitude and does not follow the sun. because it doesn't follow the sun, i cannot see it grow and shrink and therefore cannot pinpoint its location. so I give this video a thumbs down for not enough information.

OneEyed Jacks1 year ago (edited)

I guess when the "Year on Ice " video was torn apart for the hoax fraud it is a new video was needed. Why do they edit out 8 hours out of the Antarctic web cams? Oops did I just say that. Also it never follows the sun around anyway the video iscra-


mcmanus family6 months ago

I live in Alaska. Looks just like our summer solstice.

Fool me Not1 month ago

Don't believe everything you're told... how do you know this footage is from Antarctica? Question everything.. trust your senses.












FlatEresearcher11 months ago

one really funny thing that the fakers forgot to account for in this video, is that the sun would not be doing that motion in the south if the camera was fixed in position as is evident in this video, you always see the building and the camera is not following the sun. What should be seen in the sky is the sun zigzagging, as the earth revolves under it, and for half of it's revolution the sun would be going in one direction, and for the other half the sun would be going in the opposite direction in the sky, so it would look like a zig zag. test this out yourself folks with a stationary simulated sun and you spinning.

 

[patrick jane]

[h=1]"Upload to the Heavens": Cosmism, Transhumanism, & Flat Earth Cosmology[/h]
From the video description: So much could be elaborated upon the confluence of these topics, I know I'm barely scratching the surface here, but I sincerely encourage folks who find this interesting to continue researching it themselves, and this BBC documentary on Russian Cosmism really is a great place to start


https://youtu.be/9TVsit5re4M - 15 minutes - Click this link for full screen view

 

[Right Divider]

 

[patrick jane]

The same old tired talking points in the above video. They debunked nothing. If anybody thinks we sent men to the moon they are the ones needing help. The "reflector" was put there by an unmanned ship, if it's there at all. Folks, research the moon landing thoroughly, both sides.

If they faked that, you can't believe anything do or say. I might focus on the moon landing for a while. Make up your own minds, don't just take other peoples opinions as fact. Don't believe everything I say either, check and double check on your own.

 

[Right Divider]

The same old tired talking points in the above video. They debunked nothing.

Always your same tired and uniformed opinion.

How many times did the video that he was critiquing use outright LIES to "prove" their points? Answer: Every time.

PJ, I have stayed completely away from NASA, etc and tried to show you simple facts that any high school student can verify on their own and YET your remain impervious to these simple facts.

 

[WizardofOz]

Live your life? Was I stopping you?You won the debate because I can't prove a flat earth so I'm doing this now for nothing.

You misunderstand. I was agreeing with your comment from the end of that post when you said it's a stalemate. We're both biased in our view.

It's stupidity, crazy and ignorant, I know. It's the craziest thing anybody can say or think, I can't control that. This is your best evidence and here are some comments from the video:

My best evidence will always be experiments one can do on their own. I hope one day you'll get off your computer and challenge yourself to attempt them. I really believe it would clear up your misconceptions rather succinctly.

FlatEresearcher11 months ago

one really funny thing that the fakers forgot to account for in this video, is that the sun would not be doing that motion in the south if the camera was fixed in position as is evident in this video, you always see the building and the camera is not following the sun. What should be seen in the sky is the sun zigzagging, as the earth revolves under it, and for half of it's revolution the sun would be going in one direction, and for the other half the sun would be going in the opposite direction in the sky, so it would look like a zig zag. test this out yourself folks with a stationary simulated sun and you spinning.

Cyprustar Video1 year ago

and for everybody; it's normal than the sun is coming by the right it's because he's on the capricorn tropic. So he's gone and at 03:17 (for exemple) the nasa sun simulator replace him


At 03:17 the sun is replace by the nasa sunlight simulator


Emmanuel11 months ago

something is really suspect about this video. it shows the suns circle to be too tight to be antarctica midnight sun. its too bright. theres not enough info in this video to say exactly what is happening or where this is. it gives no timestamp, no lattitude or longitude and does not follow the sun. because it doesn't follow the sun, i cannot see it grow and shrink and therefore cannot pinpoint its location. so I give this video a thumbs down for not enough information.

OneEyed Jacks1 year ago (edited)

I guess when the "Year on Ice " video was torn apart for the hoax fraud it is a new video was needed. Why do they edit out 8 hours out of the Antarctic web cams? Oops did I just say that. Also it never follows the sun around anyway the video iscra-


mcmanus family6 months ago

I live in Alaska. Looks just like our summer solstice.

Fool me Not1 month ago

Don't believe everything you're told... how do you know this footage is from Antarctica? Question everything.. trust your senses.












FlatEresearcher11 months ago

one really funny thing that the fakers forgot to account for in this video, is that the sun would not be doing that motion in the south if the camera was fixed in position as is evident in this video, you always see the building and the camera is not following the sun. What should be seen in the sky is the sun zigzagging, as the earth revolves under it, and for half of it's revolution the sun would be going in one direction, and for the other half the sun would be going in the opposite direction in the sky, so it would look like a zig zag. test this out yourself folks with a stationary simulated sun and you spinning.

Come on, PJ. If I wanted you to counter solely with comments from youtube videos I'd debate there. You're not even making an attempt to think these arguments through. You're just looking for arguments others have already made so you don't have to think critically about the likelihood that your view is mistaken.

That's disappointing. A few questions you dodged:

- Does a flat earth model explain why areas around the equator are so warm on average? Areas we know are colder on average are getting almost twice as much sun exposure in most flat earth models I've seen. This doesn't line up with what we know about our climate. Why isn't it warmer at the north pole than it is at the equator given, with your model, there is more sun exposure at the north pole?

- Why do you think a globe earth would have to have equal daylight and darkness every day of the year?

 

[patrick jane]

It seems I can't have a thread to post my "fantasies" without the mob posting about it. It's an uncomfortable thread for many people. It means you've been lied to all your life. We all know we have been lied to in many different ways in many areas of life. It's not hard to fool people when they're not paying attention and just living their lives and raising families. Time goes by so fast, there's really no time to consider these possible conspiracies.

We already have a thread the proves flat earth wrong but that's not enough for a few. I'm to steer clear of flat earth proof in this thread and focus more on other conspiracies big and small. If I come across good evidence I might post it here sometimes and may come back to this topic down the road.

 

[tetelestai]

NASA.

You do know the Soviet Union landed spacecraft on the moon?

Luna 9 was the first in 1966, followed by subsequent Luna landings (all unmanned) landed on the moon, took pictures, and brought back moon rocks.

That would mean NASA and the Soviet Union had to collaborate together during the height and peak of the cold war in order to fake their moon landings.

I suggest you do some research on geocentrism vs. heliocentrism. Geocentrism = everything revolves around a stationary earth (in globe form).....heliocentrism = earth spins, and orbits the sun.

Geocentrism validates your Polaris arguments, and bible verses.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

That's disappointing. A few questions you dodged:

- Does a flat earth model explain why areas around the equator are so warm on average? Areas we know are colder on average are getting almost twice as much sun exposure in most flat earth models I've seen. This doesn't line up with what we know about our climate. Why isn't it warmer at the north pole than it is at the equator given, with your model, there is more sun exposure at the north pole?

Why did the snow, here a couple days ago, melt while the temperature stayed below freezing?

 

[patrick jane]

You misunderstand. I was agreeing with your comment from the end of that post when you said it's a stalemate. We're both biased in our view.

- Does a flat earth model explain why areas around the equator are so warm on average? Areas we know are colder on average are getting almost twice as much sun exposure in most flat earth models I've seen. This doesn't line up with what we know about our climate. Why isn't it warmer at the north pole than it is at the equator given, with your model, there is more sun exposure at the north pole?

- Why do you think a globe earth would have to have equal daylight and darkness every day of the year?

I wasn't dodging, I have these written down to investigate.I haven't seen anybody but him say 12 hours of light and 12 of dark all the time, I didn't think that made sense but I posed it to you anyway. I'm also not sure yet how to search that and get any FE information or explanation. I'll work on it because I want to be on a globe not a flat earth. I don't want to find out we're all being deceived. My life was just fine living on a ball. That reminds me of a song :idea:
People say I'm crazy
Doing what I'm doing
Well, they give me all kinds of warnings
To save me from ruin
When I say that I'm okay, well they look at me kinda strange
"Surely, you're not happy now, you no longer play the game"
People say I'm lazy
Dreaming my life away
Well they give me all kinds of advice
Designed to enlighten me
When I tell them that I'm doing fine watching shadows on the wall
"Don't you miss the big time boy, you're no longer on the ball?" ( he's on a flat earth)

I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round (stars and constellations go round like a wheel in the sky) also Journey
I really love to watch them roll
No longer riding on the merry-go-round
I just had to let it go

John Lennon

 

[patrick jane]

You do know the Soviet Union landed spacecraft on the moon?

Luna 9 was the first in 1966, followed by subsequent Luna landings (all unmanned) landed on the moon, took pictures, and brought back moon rocks.

That would mean NASA and the Soviet Union had to collaborate together during the height and peak of the cold war in order to fake their moon landings.

I suggest you do some research on geocentrism vs. heliocentrism. Geocentrism = everything revolves around a stationary earth (in globe form).....heliocentrism = earth spins, and orbits the sun.

Geocentrism validates your Polaris arguments, and bible verses.

Yes indeed, AMR directed to me to that thread and I didn't know this had come up before. It seems some here agreed with geocentrism. I have a Biblical enclosed flat earth and firmament thread for scripture, no science allowed. :chuckle: