Clerk won't give gay couple marriage license

[Quetzal]

She is a public servant. Her job is to uphold the laws of the government which employs her. She does not live in a theocracy.

That is the case. I read in an article a few days ago she can face fines and jail time. I will see if I can find it.

 

[Angel4Truth]

She is a public servant. Her job is to uphold the laws of the government which employs her. She does not live in a theocracy.

The laws of the government are suppose to uphold her freedom of religion and speech, and not cause her to be unable to practice her religion - in other words make a reasonable accommodation.

From the EEOC:

Religious Discrimination & Reasonable Accommodation

The law requires an employer or other covered entity to reasonably accommodate an employee's religious beliefs or practices, unless doing so would cause more than a minimal burden on the operations of the employer's business. This means an employer may be required to make reasonable adjustments to the work environment that will allow an employee to practice his or her religion.

and

Religious Discrimination And Employment Policies/Practices

An employee cannot be forced to participate (or not participate) in a religious activity as a condition of employment.

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/religion.cfm

 

[kiwimacahau]

Her religious rights do not trump the right of citizens in a democracy to obtain the services of the government. It would be like the local DMV employee deciding that, as he is a Muslim, he does not have to issue drivers licenses to women because he does not believe women should be driving.

 

[Quetzal]

The laws of the government are suppose to uphold her freedom of religion and speech, and not cause her to be unable to practice her religion - in other words make a reasonable accommodation.

Correct, but they will not uphold those things if they inhibit the freedoms/basic rights of other people. Further, reasonable accommodation does not involve actively refusing job duties assigned to her by said government.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Her religious rights do not trump the right of citizens in a democracy to obtain the services of the government. It would be like the local DMV employee deciding that, as he is a Muslim, he does not have to issue drivers licenses to women because he does not believe women should be driving.

Gay doesn't trump her rights. Let the whiners be accommodated by a different clerk.

I quoted the law on it.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Correct, but they will not uphold those things if they inhibit the freedoms/basic rights of other people. Further, reasonable accommodation does not involve actively refusing job duties assigned to her by said government.

yes, it can. Which is why workplaces lose lawsuits all the time if they do not allow people to have sundays or religious holidays and observances off work. They cannot stop people from the practise of their religion, just like they cannot force someone to practise one.

 

[fool]

Gay doesn't trump her rights. Let the whiners be accommodated by a different clerk.

I quoted the law on it.

First it's interesting that you refer to people who show up at the clerks office to conduct the business that takes place there as "whiners".
Second I don't think you understand this case at all, she's not "a clerk" she is The Clerk. It's an elected position there and the other clerks are her Deputy Clerks and she's not letting any gay marriage licenses get issued. Withholding her signature or seal or rubber stamp or whatever.

 

[bybee]

First it's interesting that you refer to people who show up at the clerks office to conduct the business that takes place there as "whiners".
Second I don't think you understand this case at all, she's not "a clerk" she is The Clerk. It's an elected position there and the other clerks are her Deputy Clerks and she's not letting any gay marriage licenses get issued. Withholding her signature or seal or rubber stamp or whatever.

As much as it pains me to say this the clerk is guilty of malfeasance in office. She is not obeying the Law. She is not respecting a foundation protection we have in this country which guarantees separation of Church and State. She must either resign her position or obey the Law.
Think if Muslims had won this position and refused marriage licenses to all non Muslims?

 

[Angel4Truth]

First it's interesting that you refer to people who show up at the clerks office to conduct the business that takes place there as "whiners".

yes, because the gays themselves told reporters they could easily see another clerk, but they don't want to. That makes them whiners.

Second I don't think you understand this case at all, she's not "a clerk" she is The Clerk. It's an elected position there and the other clerks are her Deputy Clerks and she's not letting any gay marriage licenses get issued. Withholding her signature or seal or rubber stamp or whatever.

There are other clerks who could issue them one not far off, already admitted to by the gays in question themselves.

Bottom line, she should not under the law be forced to go against her beliefs.

 

[fool]

yes, because the gays themselves told reporters they could easily see another clerk, but they don't want to. That makes them whiners.



There are other clerks who could issue them one not far off, already admitted to by the gays in question themselves.

Bottom line, she should not under the law be forced to go against her beliefs.

She's due in court tomorrow for contempt.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...long-as-she-refuses-to-obey-the-constitution/

See ya here :banana:

 

[kiwimacahau]

Good, hope the court fines her heavily.

 

[bybee]

Good, hope the court fines her heavily.

This shows hardness of heart and judgmentalism on your part.
The woman is trying to behave according to her conscience.
She is not a bad person.

 

[annabenedetti]

Correct, but they will not uphold those things if they inhibit the freedoms/basic rights of other people. Further, reasonable accommodation does not involve actively refusing job duties assigned to her by said government.

If she won't do her job according to its legal requirements, she needs to vacate her position.

 

[Desert Reign]

Good, hope the court fines her heavily.

I love your motto:
"Hatred cannot be overcome by Hatred, only by love."

It really helps put your posts in context.

 

[kiwimacahau]

This shows hardness of heart and judgmentalism on your part.
The woman is trying to behave according to her conscience.
She is not a bad person.

Perhaps she is not but she is paid to be a public servant NOT an arbiter of morality, a morality that seems quite permeable in her case with two kids out of wedlock and four husbands.

 

[kiwimacahau]

I love your motto:
"Hatred cannot be overcome by Hatred, only by love."

It really helps put your posts in context.

I don't hate her at all. What I cannot abide is her wanting to have her cake and to eat it too. She is a public servant. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Desert Reign]

I don't hate her at all. What I cannot abide is her wanting to have her cake and to eat it too. She is a public servant. Nothing more, nothing less.

You sound like you have an axe to grind. She needs your prayers, not your condemnation.

 

[aikido7]

Jesus had quite a lot to say about hypocrisy. And marriage as well.

This lady has been married and divorced a few times. Christians who fixate on the "Jesus AS" theology (Jesus as Son of God, born of a virgin, savior of the world, etc.) do not really even WANT to pay attention to Jesus' actual eachings.

Sorry to be blunt, folks, but Jesus forbids divorce.

This good gal is not walking her talk.

 

[drbrumley]

He Who Pays the Piper Calls the Tune

He Who Pays the Piper Calls the Tune

He Who Pays the Piper Calls the Tune

Laurence M. Vance

Butler Schaffer’s recent post reminds me that I need to blog about the Kentucky clerk who is refusing to issue marriage licenses. Any marriage license—not just licenses to same-sex couples. Several Christians have e-mailed me about this so what follows is based on what I have said to them, with additions. Unlike some conservatives, I am not enthusiastic about the actions of the Kentucky clerk. Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis, an elected official, quit issuing all marriage licenses after the recent Supreme Court gay marriage decision. Gay (and straight) couples sued. A U.S. District Court judge ordered her to issue the licenses, a U.S. Court of Appeals affirmed the order, and the U.S. Supreme Court refused to intervene. Davis maintains she is acting under God’s authority, and said: “To issue a marriage license which conflicts with God’s definition of marriage, with my name affixed to the certificate, would violate my conscience.” I have three observations. First and foremost: He who pays the piper calls the tune. If you are going to work for the state, then you do what the state says or you quit. Given the history of U.S. military aggression, you don’t join the military and then say it is unconstitutional for you to be sent to Afghanistan so you should be assigned a desk job in Ohio. If you work for a state or the national park service and you are told to cut down an old tree that you think should remain standing, you cut it down or you quit your job. I could go on and on. Second: the fact that Davis feels that issuing marriage licenses goes against her religion or violates her conscience is no defense. What if someone believes that one or more of the following legal marriages is against his religion or conscience? A previous marriage that ended in divorce for one or both parties. Inter-racial marriage. Marriage between distant cousins. Marriage between Jew and Gentile. Marriage between Christian and atheist. Marriage between Catholic and Protestant. Marriage between an old man and a young woman. Marriage between a couple who just met. Marriage between a couple who met online. Should he also be allowed to not issue marriage licenses in these circumstances? Third: Davis is a fraud who doesn’t practice anything like a biblical view of marriage. She has been married four times and divorced three times.

Glad finally someone said it.

 

[chrysostom]

the way I understand it
her position is reasonable
she is not giving out any marriage licenses
and
wants her name taken off the license itself
I believe she will go to jail with a smile on her face
God bless her