dodge
New member
Yes, in a round about way !
I was Marine Corps and oil refineries and chemical plants until I retired.
ECT Classical Vs. Biblical Original Sin - Order of Judgment and Consequences (Part 2)
- Thread starter Evil.Eye.<(I)>
- Start date
Yes, in a round about way !
I was Marine Corps and oil refineries and chemical plants until I retired.
I'm logging off for the day, but...
Thank you to ALL of You for such an exhilarating discussion while I was logged in. If more occurs in light of the matter... I'll be even more thrilled!
Sincerely... Deep Gratitude to each of you for the wonderful discussion!
May the Grace of Christ forever Compel us all and may we all grow "In" Him!
- EE
Thank you to ALL of You for such an exhilarating discussion while I was logged in. If more occurs in light of the matter... I'll be even more thrilled!
Sincerely... Deep Gratitude to each of you for the wonderful discussion!
May the Grace of Christ forever Compel us all and may we all grow "In" Him!
- EE
glorydaz
Well-known member
Ha, you didn't say you were talking about those before Paul. That was a trick question.
I agree about Paradise and the waiting place of the dead. So what kind of a Judgment do they face, and when do you say they face it.....all those not IN CHRIST?
Was there really physical fruit on the tree of knowledge of good and evil?
Was it actually the fruit itself that contained a property that would open ones eyes to good and evil?
I've heard folks say that there was nothing special about the fruit itself (ie. it was just some regular fruit but had no such property), and that it was only the disobedience itself that was the problem, not the fruit.
If there was not actually something special about the fruit, then why block access to it?
If some other creature besides man ate the fruit, would their eyes have been opened to good and evil?
And what has, or is going to happen to that tree?
Is it an eternal (as in no ending) tree, or is it to be plucked up, axed down, burned up?
Was it actually the fruit itself that contained a property that would open ones eyes to good and evil?
I've heard folks say that there was nothing special about the fruit itself (ie. it was just some regular fruit but had no such property), and that it was only the disobedience itself that was the problem, not the fruit.
If there was not actually something special about the fruit, then why block access to it?
If some other creature besides man ate the fruit, would their eyes have been opened to good and evil?
And what has, or is going to happen to that tree?
Is it an eternal (as in no ending) tree, or is it to be plucked up, axed down, burned up?
I've enjoyed it too.
glorydaz
Well-known member
The verse you quote is talking about physical death (ie dust to dust-body into the ground), and the resurrection from the dead (reversal of physical death- body raised up). Earthly first and then spiritual.
hehe!
Nick expects answers to what he says, not what someone thinks he says.
I can't answer with concrete 100% satisfactory answer.
I believe our bodies (of the members of the BOC) will lay in the grave till the rapture.
I also believe we are somehow conscious after death because of the story of Lazarus and the rich man, and also because of the story of Samuel (who had died) being summoned to speak to King Saul.
WHERE that place of consciousness is, I don't know.
And I don't know if that consciousness is some form of disembodied spirit or where it is allowed to travel (as into the throne room of GOD???).
Is there a separate place of consciousness for the BOC and the kingdom saints to await the rapture and resurrection?
I don't know. :idunno:
Not even sure we are supposed to know.
So I'm open to views to see which line up.
Ain't this fun!
Her name implies 'life giver' or 'life bearer'.
And then we have the prophesy of a virgin giving birth to life - in fact giving birth to THE LIFE.
I know most folks tend to think upon Mary as the virgin. But have you ever thought how 'virgin' of the one birthing LIFE itself could apply to Eve as the mother of all living?
A lot of debate has been over the word "virgin".
glorydaz
Well-known member
Indeed....all the words of God.
Jesus also tells us in that verse that He is the way, the truth, and the light. What is that?
John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Paul makes it so clear. God created us with the knowledge of God (even his eternal power and Godhead), so that we are without excuse.
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
This shows the wrath of God is against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness. That is clearly speaking of knowingly doing wrong. When they choose wrongly, sin lieth at the door. Gen. 4:7 It isn't IN them, it is near at hand.
We become ungrateful, and vain in our thoughts. Jesus is that true Light that lighteth every man that comes into the world, and we can't claim we didn't know or understand. It has been clearly shown to us. Children have a very simple faith, and I've never doubted for a moment that they are closer to God than we all are after living in this world of sin, and having come under the dominion of the god of this world.
Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Nang
TOL Subscriber
I believe so . .
No. There was nothing mystical or magical about the tree at all.
Adam had high intelligence prior to the fall, for he was given the responsibility to take care of all the garden and the animal kingdom. So he had knowledge. However, he revealed he was not satisfied with God's providence, but desired all that God knew and possessed. He was warned that breaking the command, and choosing to eat of the tree would cause death, but he simply did not believe it . . and because of his unbelief, he learned of death and such forbidden knowledge corrupted his being. Ecclesiastes 1:18
Yes. I remember when my daughter was a toddler, I gave her specific instructions not to touch plug outlets, which only attracted her to them, and she immediately crawled to one and stuck her finger to it. She was not hurt, but that seems to be a common condition. Forbidden things attract us.
I believe it was a divine demonstration of the limits of the creature. After all, the Godhead covenanted to provide redemption through God the Son, who would be slain, before creation. A creature cannot be like God. Adam was created, and thus was fallible. There can be no such thing as a created and infallible ousia.
Only Adam, as a man, was created in the image of God, and possessed the intelligence to comprehend the moral commands of God. Brute beasts cannot reason, so they do not sin.
And angels were created only to serve God; they cannot function autonomously from God; hence a third of them were not permitted to remain in heaven because of leaving their first estate (purpose).
Scripture is silent regarding the life of the entire garden, and all we know is we will never see it or the Tree of Life until the new heavens and new earth appear. However, I believe, because of the warning in Ecclesiastes 1:18, unbelievers, non-Christians, and skeptics still figuratively partake of it in their vain attempt to know MORE than God, and their rebellious desire to elevate their knowledge above God's Word.
Such still to this day, demonstrates the limits of the creature, for not a single soul has ever achieved immortality, infallibility, or righteousness through knowledge alone.
Only God's power and grace can provide creaturely access to His spiritual and heavenly heights.
glorydaz
Well-known member
:listen: I've heard Nick is a mean mean man.
Who cares about our body....we'll get a new spiritual one. :thumb:
I say to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
1 Cor. 5:6-9 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.I don't know, either, but I'm looking forward to it.
I'm not sure we're supposed to know, either, but it sure does keep us setting our affections on things above, doesn't it?
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
To answer your last question......
Adam prophesied that a man would leave his father and mother to cleave to his wife.
I submit that he knew not what he said.
1 Peter 1:11
“Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.”
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Not Adam. His words ended in Genesis 2:23.
God prophesied man and wife being one flesh in verse 24, after Adam revealed he grasped the concept of God's purpose for creating "Woman" from his flesh and bones.
glorydaz
Well-known member
And this is what we're supposed to swallow? :jawdrop:
"Innocent probation" "Covenant Law".....if Nang's brush was any broader, we'd be forced to open another thread just to hold her personal musings.
The meanest!
And best not be forgetting that!
YES!
Whether you actually come to a conclusion or not, it will make you think of things you may not have considered before.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Indeed. It is chipmunks that hibernate. I hope this doesn't defame [MENTION=16688]Danoh[/MENTION] 's love for that particular author.
My birthday was a couple a weeks ago.
My 5 year old grand daughter ask me if I liked squirrels or chipmunks.
While I was wonderin' why she was askin' she handed me a stuffed chimpmunk as a present.
Just sayin'.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Didn't I say he was ignert?
22"For My people are foolish, They know Me not; They are stupid children And have no understanding. They are shrewd to do evil, But to do good they do not know."
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Do you not think that we will be with the LORD in heaven? Here is what Paul said:
"For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better" (Phil.1:23).
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Have lost you here . . please provide the full scriptural reference for this post-fall
declaration, and explain what it has to do with Genesis 2:23-24.
(BTW, I strongly disagree that Adam was ignorant before he sinned. Ignorance is the result of sin, not a cause of sin IMO.)