ECT Classical Vs. Biblical Original Sin - Order of Judgment and Consequences (Part 2)

[dodge]

[Tambora;4984187]Was there really physical fruit on the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

Do you suppose Adam and Eve ate "non-physical" fruit and had a "non-physical" expulsion from the garden ?
Scripture says Eve ate and gave to Adam and he did eat ! There is your sign.

Was it actually the fruit itself that contained a property that would open ones eyes to good and evil?

immaterial God said do not and they did.

I've heard folks say that there was nothing special about the fruit itself (ie. it was just some regular fruit but had no such property), and that it was only the disobedience itself that was the problem, not the fruit.

I have heard that there is a comet and in the tail of that comet is a space ship and one has to commit suicide to catch that space ship that goes directly to heaven !

If there was not actually something special about the fruit, then why block access to it?

ONE restriction by God to see if man would obey , which of course Adam failed. The better question is why not ? He owned the garden, and He created the man so why not ?

If some other creature besides man ate the fruit, would their eyes have been opened to good and evil?

Adam as the representative head of the human race failed and we bear the results and rightfully so.

God gave man dominance over ALL of the other creatures so they did NOT represent mankind as Adam did.

And what has, or is going to happen to that tree?
Is it an eternal (as in no ending) tree, or is it to be plucked up, axed down, burned up?

Scriptures do not say so I don't know and don't care.

 

[glorydaz]

Romans 3 is pretty clear, as far as I read it. I realize you don't see that the same way. We disagree. I didn't leave anything out, but rather discussed that unless we are new creations 2 Corinthians 5:17, then we are not able to do any of it. I think John 3 surpasses Jewish minds with universal truths. I've heard every MAD I've ever talked to quote John 3:16. I don't think I'm as clueless as you seem to think, but that's just what either of us thinks.

Or perhaps I do, in fact, know it all (at least the parts you are thinking of)? :think: 2 Corinthians 5:17 Ephesians 2:10
2Co 3:18

　 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.　


The Apostle Paul understood what it means to be born-again.

I'm sure Paul knew quite well what Jesus was telling Nicodemus about being born again, but he didn't use that term, did he? Paul explains that we are "created IN CHRIST" as "new creatures". Does Jesus tell Nicodemus he will be created IN CHRIST, a "new creature"?

Now, rather than lecture me about how I'm questioning the acceptable norms of such and such doctrine, try addressing what I pointed out to you. You do realize that we have the same problem here as the way baptism and repentance were preached before the cross, and what Paul taught as revealed by the risen Lord, don't you?

 

[glorydaz]

Paul indeed claims salvation is a matter of being raised from being dead in trespasses and sins. Ephesians 2:1-5

Perhaps you actually do not know or understand anything . . .

What does that have to do with what Jesus told Nicodemus? Nick has a thread on this. I'm sure it's not up to your standards, however. :chuckle:

Seems like lots of people ignore the resurrection of the dead. We are born once with a physical body, and born again with a spiritual body. People like to change the meaning of what Paul meant here in Corinthians, too.

1 Cor. 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:​

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

"The end of time?"

Depends which car and which woman.

 

[Lon]

Serves me right for thinking Lon knew what he was talking about. :chuckle:

Serves you right for second-guessing. Don't go there. You were wrong.

Lord have mercy. I said innocent means not guilty. Now if that is too confusing for you, just say so.

Take your pick:
1) clean it up, don't serve Him on dirty plates. It is a lack of respect for the things of Him.
2) show me the Lord Jesus Christ, not your emoting.
3) learn to forgive the right way and forget or hold angst and grudge if you prefer
4) MAD isn't the cat's meow, it is just one way. Not only MAD are going to be in Heaven, and some may be departing from Him, just as in Calvinist churches. I'm well aware of your distinctions and your pride in it.
5) I'm taking time off. I'm not really interested in fleshly banter.

Whether this is buried under the cross is an entirely different matter. We are supposed to be loving our enemies. Those who 'have ought against' (means they were wronged) are the ones to make things right, by responsibility.

While I hurt you with Pelagian accusation, it is NOTHING compared to what you are doing here. You are doing it just to be mean, get back, and express anger. I wasn't.

 

[glorydaz]

Serves you right for second-guessing. Don't go there. You were wrong.


Take your pick:
1) clean it up, don't serve Him on dirty plates. It is a lack of respect for the things of Him.
2) show me the Lord Jesus Christ, not your emoting.
3) learn to forgive the right way and forget or hold angst and grudge if you prefer
4) MAD isn't the cat's meow, it is just one way. Not only MAD are going to be in Heaven, and some may be departing from Him, just as in Calvinist churches. I'm well aware of your distinctions and your pride in it.
5) I'm taking time off. I'm not really interested in fleshly banter.

Whether this is buried under the cross is an entirely different matter. We are supposed to be loving our enemies. Those who 'have ought against' (means they were wronged) are the ones to make things right, by responsibility.

While I hurt you with Pelagian accusation, it is NOTHING compared to what you are doing here. You are doing it just to be mean, get back, and express anger. I wasn't.

Oops, you went off the deep end after all. :sigh:

I'm not doing anything to be mean, but I can see you aren't quite as mature as you'd like us to think.

A break should do you good. Perhaps the Lord will do a work on your heart, and I sincerely hope that is the case.