chrysostom

[chrysostom]

Eusebius mentions John the Apostle, and 'John the Presbyter,' both of whom were interred in Ephesus. He suggests that John the Presbyter may have written Revelation.

all that is true
eusebius mentions 5 of the six churches
but
never associates them with the apocalypse
check it out
thanks for stopping by

 

[Idolater]

all that is true
eusebius mentions 5 of the six churches
but
never associates them with the apocalypse
check it out
thanks for stopping by

It's important for many Protestants to understand that not all the undisputed books of the New Testament were written by Apostles, such as Mark's and Luke's Gospels. The matter of who wrote the book is the easiest one to answer whether a book ought to be seen as authoritative, but the books that are authorized with Apostolic authority are just as authoritative as the ones written by Peter, Paul, Matthew, and John directly. So therefore, even if it's true that Revelation was written by someone other than the Apostle John, the book remains rightly in the canon of the New Testament, and deserves the same reputation as authoritatively Christian.

 

[chrysostom]

666
A Year
to look at. So what happened in the year 666? Nothing. Historians are really good at staying away from that year. So you have to look around that year. You will find a lot. The second greatest religion was attacking the greatest religion. So pay attention to this.

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[chrysostom]

Revelation 15:2
A Telling Verse
that ties it all together. "2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God." The Sea of Marmara was like a sheet of glass and Greek Fire was used by Constantinople to defeat the Arabs and the year was 666.

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[Idolater]

666
A Year
to look at. So what happened in the year 666? Nothing. Historians are really good at staying away from that year. So you have to look around that year. You will find a lot. The second greatest religion was attacking the greatest religion. So pay attention to this.

Watch for more pieces that fit. Blessed is the one who looks.
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The reason that I have trouble accepting 666 as a year is that it renders the copies of Revelation that we have that say '616' as being just arbitrarily unreliable. Those documents, if 666 is a year, compete with our otherwise very good reason to believe that the copying or transcription process that people used when producing newer versions of the originals was sound and of high quality. For a transcription error like '666' turning into '616,' without any reasonable explanation, is to cast serious doubt on our belief that the documents that we do have, accurately reflect the originals to us.

666 being gematria however, explains the 666 and 616 discrepancy satisfactorily. It is when you compute the numerical value of 'Caesar Nero,' written in Hebrew letters, that you get 666. If instead you compute the numerical value of 'Caesar Nero' in either Greek or Latin letters (I don't remember which), you arrive at 616. This explains why there are some copies of Revelation where the number of the beast is 616.

 

[chrysostom]

The reason that I have trouble accepting 666 as a year is that it renders the copies of Revelation that we have that say '616' as being just arbitrarily unreliable. Those documents, if 666 is a year, compete with our otherwise very good reason to believe that the copying or transcription process that people used when producing newer versions of the originals was sound and of high quality. For a transcription error like '666' turning into '616,' without any reasonable explanation, is to cast serious doubt on our belief that the documents that we do have, accurately reflect the originals to us.

666 being gematria however, explains the 666 and 616 discrepancy satisfactorily. It is when you compute the numerical value of 'Caesar Nero,' written in Hebrew letters, that you get 666. If instead you compute the numerical value of 'Caesar Nero' in either Greek or Latin letters (I don't remember which), you arrive at 616. This explains why there are some copies of Revelation where the number of the beast is 616.

what if it is not gematria?
what if it is not nero?
maybe translators who think it is nero
should not change the text because of that
and
if you look at all 60 english translations
you will already know that it does, in your words,
"cast serious doubt" on what we have

 

[chrysostom]

666
A Mark
a beginning, a date stamp, which is the most common mark there is, and nearly everything made has it. To get the date right we must look at the Proleptic Julian calendar and 44 BC. The Gregorian calendar didn't start until 1582. We must also look at 622, the beginning of Islam and the beginning of the Islamic calendar. 666 of the Julian calendar marks the beginning of Islam. The Hijra.

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[Idolater]

what if it is not gematria?
what if it is not nero?

Well of course. If it isn't Nero, then it has to be something else. I set out my reasoning here, which explains the 666 and 616 versions of Revelation that we have. I haven't seen any other explanation that satisfactorily addresses this discrepancy.

maybe translators who think it is nero
should not change the text because of that

Of course they shouldn't, but Bible translators imo seem to be some of the most unbiased and professional people wrt how they render a text; iow they don't seem to bias their work according to any particular Christian tradition, with some notable/notorious exceptions, e.g. the JW Bible. Even Catholic compared with Protestant Bibles really don't show any substantive differences.

and
if you look at all 60 english translations
you will already know that it does, in your words,
"cast serious doubt" on what we have

What in particular are you referring to here? Is it just the '666' verse renderings (Rev13:18KJV), or all the surrounding verses? What I see is that Nero had coins minted, that read, 'Caesar Nero.' That's a mark (Rev13:16KJV). It's not the number of his name, but his actual name (Rev13:17KJV). And in order to buy and sell, you would need to deal in these coins, and presumably, you might use your right hand when doing so, which satisfies that particular passage, however it is rendered in various English versions. At least, that's what I think. :idunno:

 

[chrysostom]

668 is
A Date
Edward Gibbon used to mark the first attack on Constantinople by the Arabs. More precisely he had it "Forty-six years after the flight of Mahomet from Mecca". That year was 622. If he had used an Islamic calendar converter, it would have calculated 666. Most versions of the bible "calculate the number".

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[chrysostom]

not proof but
A Fit
with other pieces of the puzzle. You need a lot of pieces that fit to get a clear picture of what you have. That is why you start with the big pieces. Little pieces are way too easy to find and they will always fit your interpretation especially in the future. So there is no proof. Just historical pieces that seem to fit a literal interpretation. More pieces are better.

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[chrysostom]

Constantinople
A City
that fits and comes with many other pieces that fit. It has many waters (17.1), it is a mystery (17.5), it has seven mountains (17.9), it is fallen (18.2), it had trade (18.11), it can be found no more at all (18.21). Does it have seven heads and ten horns? We shall see. Does it have the beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition? We shall see.

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[chrysostom]

a beast is a beast is
A Beast
is a beast. That is four. Daniel had four. John had two but they had "ten horns" in common. So what makes a beast a beast? Only Daniel can tell us that. Most agree on Babylon, Greece, and Rome. What do they have in common? The Temple. The first destroyed the first. The second desecrated the second. The third destroyed the second. The fourth must be preventing the third. That would be the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place. So what is in the holy place now?

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[Idolater]

The fourth must be preventing the third. That would be the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place. So what is in the holy place now?

The temple today is the Body of Christ, the Church. She is alive and well.

 

[chrysostom]

look for
A Holy Place
in Daniel spoken of by Jesus. Not there but the abomination of desolation is. Three times. Which one is Jesus talking about? What is standing in the holy place? Is it an it or a person? There is little agreement here. Wikipedia has three possibilities to consider: Antiochus IV Epiphanes in 167 BC, Titus in 70 AD, and the Dome of the Rock by the Umayyad Caliph Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan in 691 AD. The last one is with us today. This is the one we need to consider.

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[chrysostom]

Daniel
A Key
to unlock the door to understanding the Apocalypse. They are connected. You can't solve one without solving the other. The abomination of desolation and the attack on Constantinople in 666 point to Islam. To make it fit we need to identify the "ten horns" and while were at it, let's see if we can identify the "king of the north" and the "king of the south".

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[chrysostom]

ten horns
A Common Characteristic
with the beast of Daniel and the Apocalypse. Both Daniel and John tell us that the horns are kings. That doesn't help much. There are way too many kings. This forced the interpreters to consider dynasties or kingdoms. This helps if you know how to count them. I don't so I have to rely on the beast to count them for me. No problem. The ten dynasties of Islam.

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[chrysostom]

a head is
A Dynasty
and there are seven of them. Kings but way too many to count. Dynasties are also hard to count but not for some historians. It's their job. Rome had seven dynasties:
– Julio-Claudian dynasty 68
– Flavian dynasty 96
– Nerva–Antonine dynasty 192
– Severan dynasty 235
– Constantinian dynasty 361
– Valentinian Dynasty 455
– House of Leo 476


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[7djengo7]

It is when you compute the numerical value of 'Caesar Nero,' written in Hebrew letters, that you get 666.

Why would anybody "compute the numerical value of 'Caesar Nero,' written in Hebrew letters", unless he/she already assumed that Nero is one of the two beasts of Revelation 13? Besides, Revelation was written in Greek, not in Hebrew. There's absolutely no relevance to Revelation in a Hebrew translation or transliteration of the Latin phrase, 'Caesar Nero'.

 

[Idolater]

Why would anybody "compute the numerical value of 'Caesar Nero,' written in Hebrew letters", unless he/she already assumed that Nero is one of the two beasts of Revelation 13? Besides, Revelation was written in Greek, not in Hebrew. There's absolutely no relevance to Revelation in a Hebrew translation or transliteration of the Latin phrase, 'Caesar Nero'.

It is a code. You're familiar with the concept of a code. It's a code. 'Code name,' 'code word.' It's a code. A type of code.

 

[ok doser]

It is a code. You're familiar with the concept of a code. It's a code. 'Code name,' 'code word.' It's a code. A type of code.

if you hab a code, take a couble asbrid, sub decudgestant, pledy of fluids and ged sub rest