Christ's Commandments

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2Ths 3:14 . . If anyone does not obey our commands in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed.

Back then when churches were small cells meeting in private homes rather than auditoriums seating hundreds of people, it was easy for church officers to hold their congregations' feet to the fire. Nowadays, forget it. Church sizes are such that management hasn't a clue what's going on in the lives of their membership roles. As a result, modern churches are permeated with conduct unbecoming.

2Ths 3:15 . .Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Mandatory consequences were usually for the purpose of discipline; viz: child rearing. So when officers ostracize one of Christ's followers, they should keep in mind that the errant follower is one of their own: a sibling around the table in God's home. So wayward followers shouldn't be permanently culled from the herd as if they're the devil in disguise. They aren't devils; no, they're just naughty kids that deserve grounding, so to speak. (cf. 2Cor 2:6-11)
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Re: Christ's Commandments

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1Tim 1:3-5 . . As I urged you when I went into Macedonia-- remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith.

The epistles of Timothy and Titus are sometimes called the pastoral epistles because Paul's instructions target mainly church managers rather than congregations.

"no other doctrine" is the information Paul mentioned in another letter.

"So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us." (2Ths 2:15)

"by letter" would of course include 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus; and all the other epistles too, including Peter's, James', John's, and Jude's.
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Re: Christ's Commandments

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1Tim 2:1-2 . . First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, in order that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all piety and dignity.

Not all Christians in the world are peace-loving. But those of us who are would just like to be left alone by the world's governments so we can go about the practice of our religion without fear of crack-downs, especially in communist countries and Arab lands.

What this world really needs a whole lots more of is religious tolerance.
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1Tim 2:8-9 . . I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and evil thoughts.

Lifting up one's hands is the posture of an anxious beggar seeking charity and compassion. Holy hands are hands dedicated to serving Christ faithfully, loyally, and effectively. Other kinds of hands should be kept at one's side till such a time as they qualify as holy.

The koiné Greek word for "wrath" is orge (or-gay') which means: hot desire. Orge is sometimes translated anger, indignation, and vengeance. The idea is that a believer should never pray out of spite and/or use prayer as a tool to hurt somebody's feelings. That is the ugliest abuse of the privilege of prayer that I can possibly imagine. In my opinion, people who pray out of spite are no different than slanderers, witches, sorcerers and voodoo priests. Especially annoying are people who can't keep a civil tongue in their heads, and then have the nerve to say "you're in our prayers"
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1Tim 2:9-10 . . In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; but (which becomes women professing piety) with good works.

The Greek word for "sobriety" is sophrosune (so-fros-oo'-nay) which means soundness of mind; viz: sane, composed, and self controlled. A woman in the throes of hysteria, passionate rage, misandry, door-slamming, or a hissy fit doesn't fit the definition.

Some folk, obsessed with asceticism, use that verse to prove it's wrong for women to use cosmetics and dress themselves in current fashions. But the passage doesn't forbid that. What it forbids is a woman putting a higher priority on her appearance than her character.

The old adage "You can't judge a book by its cover" applies here as well as in literature. I've met women with tattoos, studs in their tongues, multicolored hair, fishnet stockings, outrageous earrings, tight-fitting concert tee shirts, low-slung hip huggers, and black lipstick that were really peaches while I've met dignified, neatly dressed women with horrible personalities. They say a rose in any language is still a rose; yeah, well, a pig, no matter how it's dressed, is still a pig whether in belly shirts and flip-flops or haute couture.

"An attractive woman who lacks discretion is like a gold ring in a pig's snout." (Prv 11:22, cf. 1Pet 3:1-6)

The koiné Greek word for "shamefacedness" is "aidos" (ahee-doce') which means: bashfulness; which is just the opposite of insolence, impudence, and brazenness. Bashful people have a hard time looking people in the eye because they are so shy, non-confrontational, timid, self conscious, and non-assertive. What we're looking at here relates to one of The Lord's beatitudes.

"Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." (Matt 5:3)

That's a very comforting beatitude because it confirms that difficult people are not permitted in the kingdom of heaven.
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[popsthebuilder]

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1Tim 2:9-10 . . In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; but (which becomes women professing piety) with good works.

The Greek word for "sobriety" is sophrosune (so-fros-oo'-nay) which means soundness of mind; viz: sane, composed, and self controlled. A woman in the throes of hysteria, passionate rage, misandry, door-slamming, or a hissy fit doesn't fit the definition.

Some folk, obsessed with asceticism, use that verse to prove it's wrong for women to use cosmetics and dress themselves in current fashions. But the passage doesn't forbid that. What it forbids is a woman putting a higher priority on her appearance than her character.

The old adage "You can't judge a book by its cover" applies here as well as in literature. I've met women with tattoos, studs in their tongues, multicolored hair, fishnet stockings, outrageous earrings, tight-fitting concert tee shirts, low-slung hip huggers, and black lipstick that were really peaches while I've met dignified, neatly dressed women with horrible personalities. They say a rose in any language is still a rose; yeah, well, a pig, no matter how it's dressed, is still a pig whether in belly shirts and flip-flops or haute couture.

"An attractive woman who lacks discretion is like a gold ring in a pig's snout." (Prv 11:22, cf. 1Pet 3:1-6)

The koiné Greek word for "shamefacedness" is "aidos" (ahee-doce') which means: bashfulness; which is just the opposite of insolence, impudence, and brazenness. Bashful people have a hard time looking people in the eye because they are so shy, non-confrontational, timid, self conscious, and non-assertive. What we're looking at here relates to one of The Lord's beatitudes.

"Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." (Matt 5:3)

That's a very comforting beatitude because it confirms that difficult people are not permitted in the kingdom of heaven.
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Please explain "difficult" as you meant it in the post quoted.

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Please explain "difficult" as you meant it in the post quoted.

hysteria, passionate rage, misandry, door-slamming, hissy fit, insolence, impudence, assertive, confrontational, and brazenness.

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Re: Christ's Commandments

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1Tim 2:11 . . Let a woman quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.

The koiné Greek word for "submissiveness" is hupotage (hoop-ot-ag-ay') which basically refers to subordination.

Hupotgage appears in a number of applications. In Matt 22:12 the word means tongue tied. In Mark 4:39 it means calm down. In 1Tim 5:18 it infers suppression. In 1Tim 2:15 it means to negate, i.e. render invalid and/or unworthy of consideration.

During my 74 years on this planet; I've encountered quite a few women that enjoy debating with men; and especially pointing out men's faults and/or proving men wrong. I don't know why they're like that, I guess it's just a female thing. But Christ doesn't allow it.

If 1Tim 2:11 is telling me anything at all it's that Christ doesn't want to see Christian women debating, quarrelling, or arguing with men in church; and that includes Sunday school discussions. In point of fact, according to 1Cor 14:35, women aren't even allowed to raise their hands and ask a question.

Gender equality is a big issue out in the world; but God forbid it should become an issue in church because the personal feelings and/or opinions of Christ's believing followers are trumped by a final opinion higher than any on Earth.
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Re: Christ's Commandments

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1Tim 2:12-15 . . I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

In the "my" church of Matt 16:18, males are the gender designated to captain the ships; not the females. I pity a church supervised by female managers and pastors. Why? Because it tells me that Christ is not active in that church providing it with the tools the congregation needs in order to grow in strength and maturity as per Eph 4:11-16.

Speaking of Satan; the apostle Paul remarked "We are not unaware of his schemes" (2Cor 2:11). Well; the Devil's oldest scheme in the book was to lead a woman astray so that she in turn would lead a man astray. Need I say more?
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Re: Christ's Commandments

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1Tim 2:15 . . Women shall be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

In other words, it isn't necessary for women to be pastors, deacons, and/or adult Sunday school teachers in order to serve Christ faithfully, loyally, and effectively. Homemaking is just as high a calling as any in church.

Can a female church manager or a pastor; continue in faith, love, and sanctity with self-restraint? In point of fact, it is a non sequitur to say a female church manager or pastor continues in faith. If she did, she would be neither a church manager nor a pastor. This is precisely why God rejected Cain's offering. It was a perfectly good offering, and no doubt Cain had brought God the very same thing in the past, but God rejected it that time because that's the one time that Cain failed to offer it in faith. (Gen 4:7, Heb 11:4)
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1Tim 3:2a . . An overseer, then, must be above reproach

The koiné Greek word for "overseer" is episkopos (ep-is'-kop-os) which means: a superintendent; viz: church officers.

Pastors of modern churches aren't really pastors in the true Biblical sense; they're actually managers. A true pastor is essentially a shepherd; which is totally different (and somewhat rare too). In point of fact, pastors no longer supervise churches at all: boards run churches, and pastors are merely employees; viz: hirelings.

To tell the truth, I'm afraid of today's career pastors; I don't trust them, and do my best to avoid them because I don't feel safe in their presence; which is very abnormal. If there's anybody on God's green earth that The Lord's sheep should be able to trust, it's their local shepherd, but far too many church managers today regard congregations as numbers and/or threats to their security.

Why must pastors be above reproach? Because the work they do is a "good" work (1Tim 3:1) and much good can be ruined by even a little wickedness.

"Dead insects will cause even a bottle of perfume to stink! Yes, an ounce of foolishness can outweigh a pound of wisdom and honor." (Ecc 10:1)

Before the wonders of modern chemistry, perfumes were made (and many still are) from animal and vegetable sources. Those, being 100% organic in a time when chemical preservatives didn't exists, could spoil if the perfumer wasn't careful to keep his product protected from exposure to temperature, insects, dirt, moisture, and other contaminants. All the skills and patience and knowledge exercised in the making of expensive ointments could be completely annulled by simply forgetting to put the cap (or the cork; whatever) back on a jar.

Anyway, Ecc 10:1 certainly rings true in this day and age as the Roman Catholic Church's credibility steadily erodes because of its ongoing pedophilia scandals and the hierarchy's deplorable cover-ups.
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[popsthebuilder]

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1Tim 3:2a . . An overseer, then, must be above reproach

The koiné Greek word for "overseer" is episkopos (ep-is'-kop-os) which means: a superintendent; viz: church officers.

Pastors of modern churches aren't really pastors in the true Biblical sense; they're actually managers. A true pastor is essentially a shepherd; which is totally different (and somewhat rare too). In point of fact, pastors no longer supervise churches at all: boards run churches, and pastors are merely employees; viz: hirelings.

To tell the truth, I'm afraid of today's career pastors; I don't trust them, and do my best to avoid them because I don't feel safe in their presence; which is very abnormal. If there's anybody on God's green earth that The Lord's sheep should be able to trust, it's their local shepherd, but far too many church managers today regard congregations as numbers and/or threats to their security.

Why must pastors be above reproach? Because the work they do is a "good" work (1Tim 3:1) and much good can be ruined by even a little wickedness.

"Dead insects will cause even a bottle of perfume to stink! Yes, an ounce of foolishness can outweigh a pound of wisdom and honor." (Ecc 10:1)

Before the wonders of modern chemistry, perfumes were made (and many still are) from animal and vegetable sources. Those, being 100% organic in a time when chemical preservatives didn't exists, could spoil if the perfumer wasn't careful to keep his product protected from exposure to temperature, insects, dirt, moisture, and other contaminants. All the skills and patience and knowledge exercised in the making of expensive ointments could be completely annulled by simply forgetting to put the cap (or the cork; whatever) back on a jar.

Anyway, Ecc 10:1 certainly rings true in this day and age as the Roman Catholic Church's credibility steadily erodes because of its ongoing pedophilia scandals and the hierarchy's deplorable cover-ups.
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Seems toe the pope is doing what he can to reconcile the Catholic Church....just my opinion.

Pastors should be a shining light...you are right.

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Re: Christ's Commandments

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1Tim 3:2b . . the husband of one wife

That directive is a bit ambiguous. Some feel it says a pastor can have only one wife at a time; viz: not a polygamist; while others feel it says he can be married only once in his lifetime; viz: not a widower or a divorced man.

I tend to think it means one wife at a time. If so; then this passage, and Titus 1:5-6 have the distinction of being the only places in the entire Bible prohibiting polygamy.

However; the rule is very narrow. It specifically regulates the home life of church officers, so it would be wrong to use those passages to justify forcing monogamy upon the rank and file. But, if polygamy conflicts with the laws of one's State of residence, then of course the State has the final say in that regard. (cf. Rom 13:1-5)
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[Faither]

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● John 14:21 . .Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me.

God's commands as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy are covenanted commands, i.e. contractual. Christ's followers are not contracted with God to comply with those particular commands; and lucky them because Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69 specify a large number of curses for non compliance.

● Deut 27:26 . . Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out.

Note the grammatical tense of that curse; it's present tense rather than future, indicating that the very moment a Jew breaks one of the covenanted commands he racks up a curse upon himself-- no delay and no waiting period; for example:

● Lev 19:11 . . You shall not deal falsely, nor lie to one another.

Every time a Jew is dishonest, he accrues a curse; for each offense. Lets say a Jew is dishonest ten times in a week. Well according to the covenant, his ten counts of dishonesty accrue ten curses; and those curses are contractual, i.e. God is obligated by the covenant to fulfil them lest He himself fall into breach of contract. Obviously then, serial dishonesty is pretty serious for people contracted with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

Ergo: I do not recommend converting to Judaism lest one find themselves under a sword of Damocles hanging by a slender thread easily broken by just one lie.

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What specific commands of Christ are you addressing ?

 

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What specific commands of Christ are you addressing ?

They begin at post #17
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[Faither]

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They begin at post #17
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Just to clarify , are you addressing only statements Christ Himself made ?

 

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are you addressing only statements Christ Himself made?

Sort of.

● 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of The Lord.

● 1Thess 4:1-2 . .We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by The Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments we gave you by The Lord Jesus.
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[Faither]

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Sort of.

● 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of The Lord.

● 1Thess 4:1-2 . .We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by The Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments we gave you by The Lord Jesus.
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Ok , got it .

Sorry for all these questions , just laying some ground work to see where our understandings are .

God's Word in general ? Do you understand God's Word to belong to anyone who claims it to be ? Or is there a precondition that needs to be met on your eyes ?

 

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Re: Christ's Commandments

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1Tim 3:2c . . temperate

This kind of temperance relates to a personality that's self controlled, sensible, disciplined, levelheaded, avoiding extremes of behavior or expression: observing reasonable limits.

1Tim 3:2d . . prudent

The koiné word for "prudent" is sophron (so'-frone) which means: having a sound mind; viz: rational, reasonable, and sensible as opposed to emotional and reactive.

1Tim 3:2e . . respectable

The koiné Greek word for "respectable" is kosmios (kos'-mee-os) which means: orderly, viz: decorous.

Webster's defines decorous as marked by propriety; viz: correct; and exhibiting good taste in conduct, language, or appearance. A decorous person is-- among other things --neat, tidy, well-mannered, well-groomed, and polite. They bathe often too.

1Tim 3:2f . . hospitable

The koiné word for "hospitable" is philoxenos (fil-ox'-en-os) which means: fond of guests. In other words, church officers shouldn't be a hermit types, or a friendless loners who prefers solitude. Not that there's anything wrong with hermits and loners; it's just that church officers are supposed to be shepherds, which requires them to associate with the sheep entrusted to their care. A man who doesn't mingle easily and comfortably really should consider another line of work.
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Re: Christ's Commandments

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1Tim 3:2g . . apt to teach

"apt to teach" is from the Greek word didaktikos (did-ak-tik-os') which means: instructive ("didactic")

That word is tricky. It's sometimes translated "able to teach". That's okay I guess, but i suspect didaktikos actually refers to role models, i.e. people whose manner of life exemplifies Christianity.
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