God's Truth
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Who tries to shame another for preaching obedience to Christ? The shamefulness should come from someone preaching obedience to Christ but not themselves obey Christ, as Meshak does.
Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!
- Thread starter Apple7
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Who tries to shame another for preaching obedience to Christ? The shamefulness should come from someone preaching obedience to Christ but not themselves obey Christ, as Meshak does.
And that it pleased the LORD to do so. Is 53:10
Are you speaking of what Christ preached to the lost sheep of the House of Israel and if so, could you provide some Scripture?
Yep, Marhig and perhaps a few others on this thread have a problem with why Christ HAD to die on the cross.
What does this even mean?
Explain?
You know, it's easier just to quote the post directly and respond that way...
Not. Even. Close.
Had you actually read my post, you would find where Scripture DOES IN FACT say that only God could die to save all mankind.
I already did. See my previous post addressed to you.
"Through the obedience of one Man
Fixed that for you.
Funny how I'm coming up with verses that say that man can't die for any other man's sin, and that only God will save, and verses that say that God became a man, and that Jesus is God.
It's almost like I'm proving your position wrong.
"Death came through man, . . . also through Man."
Fixed that for you.
Again, I repeat:
IF Jesus was anything LESS than God Himself, He could not save one single human being.
It's not possible. Created beings are simply not valuable enough to pay the ransom for sin. Only God is infinitely valuable, because where man has a beginning, and will exist for the rest of eternity, God does not have a beginning, and has existed for all of eternity past, and will exist for the rest of eternity. The only thing greater than a created beings existence is God's existence. A created being only has enough value to pay for his own existence.
See the passage in Psalm I quoted above.
Again, see the passage from Psalm
So you DO think that Jesus was just an angel?
Talk about blasphemy...
Only if God was one Being, one Person. But God is not just one Being, one Person. God is one Being, three Persons.
And since Jesus was the second Person of that tri-unity, God the Son, who submitted His will the first Person of that tri-unity, God the Father, not only was he the perfect example of how children should honor their parents, but He willingly gave up his life for His creation.
See above.
God gave Him what He had with the Father before the world began. Or did you forget that verse?
See above.
By the way, KR, I just spoke to a JW who was going around a truck stop I stopped at briefly, and told him I was in a debate with a few JWs on here (you, among others), and you know what he told me?
He told me you're not even supposed to be debating online.
Naughty naughty...
He told me you're not even supposed to be debating online.
Naughty naughty...
When I was about eight or nine-years old, I wasn't a Christian, my family didn't go to church except once on Christmas and once on Easter, I knew NOTHING about God, yet, when some friends wanted me to go with them and steal candy from a store, I knew it was wrong somehow and refused to participate. As a child I had a very strong conscience. My Mom would tell me to sit in a certain chair while she went to the store and when she got back I was sitting in that exact chair in total obedience. (My Sister was a different story.) Another time when I was eight or nine my Mom took us kids to a Department store and I opened a Halloween costume box and accidently broke the string on the mask, so I went to my Mom, asked her for a nickel and went and placed that nickel in the costume box, in order to make amends for the damage I had caused.
I wasn't a Christian then, I didn't know who the Holy Spirit was nor did I really have a concept of God. All I had was a conscience to know the difference between right and wrong. Like you say, Tam, one doesn't need to be a Christian in order to make good choices in life, be obedient, be kind, be lawful, recognize consequences, etc. Like you said, an Atheist can do good things, provide good works/deeds, help the poor, respect their Parents, obey the laws of the land, not steal, lie, cheat, etc. The problem is, being a good person will not help you inherit eternal life, receive forgiveness of sins, or become a member of the Body of Christ.
There's a lot of really good people out there that aren't saved and will not spend eternity in Heaven, but, will end up in the Lake of Fire and eternal damnation. Being a good person doesn't cut it with God. The Bible says in Isaiah 64:6; "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."
God sees the righteousness of human beings as 'filthy rags.' So, if one should find themselves standing before Almighty God at the judgement for the unbelievers, they can rest assured, that God will NOT be impressed with their 'righteousness, good works/deeds.' In fact, the Bible says in Revelation 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." So, we already KNOW what God thinks about, good works/deeds/righteousness. He thinks they're like 'filthy rags.' How far will the unbelievers get with their 'righteousness' before a totally righteous and perfect God, who MUST punish sin of any kind?
The Bible says in James 2:10; "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."
According to that verse of Scripture, if someone/anyone would be able to obey the ENTIRE law, yet, they disobeyed even ONE of the laws, they would be GUILTY of disobeying EVERY law. If a person believes they're capable of being 'good enough' to enter into the presence of God, they'd be mistaken, because, in order to spend eternity in Heaven with God, you'd have to have NEVER sinned throughout your ENTIRE life. Basically, you'd have to be the Lord Jesus Christ. He was 100% sinless throughout His entire life, He's the ONLY one that ever accomplished that. So, if someone thinks they can 'earn their way to Heaven' through 100% obedience to the law, they'll have an extremely rude awakening. Actually, you have to be equivalent to Christ in order to be in the presents of God for eternity.
That's why, when we hear the Gospel and place ALL of our faith in Christ as our Lord and Savior, we actually become a 'Child of God' who, in the eyes of God is sinless. We are sinless, because, Christ took our place and paid the price for all of our combined sins; past, present and future. Therefore, God can look on us and ONLY see His Son. (God the Son) If not for Christ's death and resurrection, the human race would ALL stand before a righteous God and be condemned to the 'Lake of Fire' for eternity. God doesn't take sin lightly, it cost Him the blood of Jesus, His Son. (God the Son) And, He was willing to pay that price, out of His love for us.
KingdomRose
New member
Well, why don't you worship Jehovah? Jesus did. (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12; I Corinthians 15:24-28) He continues to do so.
KingdomRose
New member
Where?
It appears as if the 'JW Cult' believes Christ was an angel named Michael? That's even more proof that they are preaching falsehoods and some form of blasphemy. Jesus Christ was and is, the Son of God and God the Son. To relegate Christ to being one of God's created beings is disgusting and totally inappropriate to Christ's Deity.
Like I've already stated; Christ is the Son of God and God the Son. To say he's less than that, proves you and your cult are just that; a CULT.
KingdomRose
New member
I believe I answered this already, but I'll try again to clarify.
The point has been---you believe that Jesus is Jehovah, yet you shrug off Psalm 110 where Jehovah is talking to Jesus. You say that the one Person of the Trinity is speaking to another Person of the Trinity. Doesn't that show that they are NOT the same Person?
And again....Isaiah 61 is applied to Jesus himself when he spoke in the synagogue at Luke 4:16-21. He wouldn't be anointing himself or sending himself. After all, he said that he wanted to do the will of the FATHER, and not his own will. (Matt.6:9,10; Matthew 26:39)
Christ paid the debt, as God's SON, not God Himself. I'm waiting for scriptures from you that show that God had to die.
KingdomRose
New member
So it looks like you CAN'T explain what I'm asking you to explain. You believe that Jesus is his Father, Jehovah, and I am asking you to explain how Jesus would send himself and anoint himself, which, if it was true, you would explain it to me.
To try and counter what a 'JW Cult member' is saying is an 'exercise in futility,' however, by debating their falsehoods, others are able to observe and see how 'anti-Christian' this particular cult is. So, those of us who are in the process of exposing this cult are helping the observers, if not the cultists, themselves.
KingdomRose
New member
No, you say that Jesus IS JEHOVAH. That means that he, "God the Son," and "God the Father" are the same Person. Or are you reneging on that line of thinking?
truthjourney
New member
That's right. That's straight from the Governing Body. That's their policy. Because we are considered "worldly", "bad association" "Satan's people, part of Satan's organization" and "apostates". And we're all doomed to be destroyed in Armageddon.
KingdomRose
New member
I do not reject the Gospel. And you have yet to show me where the Bible says that I have to believe that Jesus is God.
As I previously have stated; There exists; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, yet, they are one. To help illustrate to you what I'm saying; There are three distinct PERSONS, yet, they are, all three united regarding the Godhead. John 14:9 states; "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"
All three members of the Trinity are equal members of the whole.