Christian Persecutions

[glorydaz]

Pate goes against obeying Jesus.

By the way, you are a Calvinist.

Don't you know what Robert says about you?

Sowing discord. This must be her special "gift". :devil:

 

[nikolai_42]

Pate goes against obeying Jesus.

By the way, you are a Calvinist.

Don't you know what Robert says about you?

I do hold beliefs that lean in the Calvinist direction, yes. But I don't know that I am a full-fledged Calvinist. That said, I try not to pay much heed to what people say about me - especially online - because one truth is that you simply cannot know someone online like you can in person. It just isn't possible. About all you can tell is their ability to rein in their tongues. Even then, you are getting a filtered response. Sure, you can have a decent idea about someone, but online personas are partial at best.

So in all honesty, I'm more interested in what Robert believes about scripture than about me. One will matter for a LOT longer...

 

[john w]

I do hold beliefs that lean in the Calvinist direction, yes. But I don't know that I am a full-fledged Calvinist. That said, I try not to pay much heed to what people say about me - especially online - because one truth is that you simply cannot know someone online like you can in person. It just isn't possible. About all you can tell is their ability to rein in their tongues. Even then, you are getting a filtered response. Sure, you can have a decent idea about someone, but online personas are partial at beast.

So in all honesty, I'm more interested in what Robert believes about scripture than about me. One will matter for a LOT longer...

He believes that Genesis-Malachi are no longer "scripture," as these books have been abolished. A 6 year old can read this, and figure it out:

You are trying to use Old Testament scripture to make your point. There is a problem with that. The Old Testament along with the Old Covenant have been abolished.

 

[nikolai_42]

He believes that Genesis-Malachi are no longer "scripture," as these books have been abolished. A 6 year old can read this, and figure it out:

As far as I'm concerned, he's dead wrong.

 

[john w]

As far as I'm concerned, he's dead wrong.

Not only dead wrong-the above is a doctrine of demons. Read it.

You are trying to use Old Testament scripture to make your point. There is a problem with that. The Old Testament along with the Old Covenant have been abolished.

 

[Robert Pate]

John W. is a Pharisee. The Pharisees made the law their Jesus. John W. never says anything about Jesus, his mission is to up hold the Old Covenant and the law, that has been abolished.

Most Christians allow the scripture to dictate what the believe. Not John W. he seldom if ever quotes scripture. His doctrine is what is in his thick skull, no scripture needed.

Under the New Covenant, which is Jesus himself, the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. The Pharisee, whose religion is law, cannot believe this even though the scripture teaches it, Hebrews 8:13.

 

[john w]

John W. is a Pharisee. The Pharisees made the law their Jesus. John W. never says anything about Jesus, his mission is to up hold the Old Covenant and the law, that has been abolished.

Most Christians allow the scripture to dictate what the believe. Not John W. he seldom if ever quotes scripture. His doctrine is what is in his thick skull, no scripture needed.

Under the New Covenant, which is Jesus himself, the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. The Pharisee, whose religion is law, cannot believe this even though the scripture teaches it, Hebrews 8:13.

The demon changes the subject, "argument," moves the goalposts, creates a moving target. This thread is not about your other satanic assertion, that the law is not holy, is not good, is not spiritual, and no longer exists, as it has been destroyed, as you spam. This thread is about you, on record, asserting, that "The Old Testament," Genesis-Malachi, has been abolished, you vile deceiver:


Read it...Face you....Defiled, seared conscience, and all-satanic:

You are trying to use Old Testament scripture to make your point. There is a problem with that. The Old Testament along with the Old Covenant have been abolished.

 

[glorydaz]

John W. is a Pharisee. The Pharisees made the law their Jesus. John W. never says anything about Jesus, his mission is to up hold the Old Covenant and the law, that has been abolished.

Most Christians allow the scripture to dictate what the believe. Not John W. he seldom if ever quotes scripture. His doctrine is what is in his thick skull, no scripture needed.

Under the New Covenant, which is Jesus himself, the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. The Pharisee, whose religion is law, cannot believe this even though the scripture teaches it, Hebrews 8:13.

You're wrong, of course, but you've closed your mind to anything the rest of us say. John quotes scripture all the time, which shows you aren't actually reading what other people write. The only thing you see is someone demeaning you.

Your pride has gotten the best of you, Robert.

One minute you say the law has been abolished, and the next you quote verses that show the law condemns unbelievers. One minute you say the Old Testament has been abolished, and the next you quote Paul quoting the Old Testament. :sigh:

 

[john w]

John W. is a Pharisee. The Pharisees made the law their Jesus. John W. never says anything about Jesus, his mission is to up hold the Old Covenant and the law, that has been abolished.

Made up, satanic spam, from this intoxicated demon. No scripture asserts that the law of God no longer exists, you satanic liar.

Most Christians allow the scripture to dictate what the believe. Not John W. he seldom if ever quotes scripture. His doctrine is what is in his thick skull, no scripture needed.

What scripture would that be, poser? "The Old Testament," Genesis-Malachi? We cannot quote it, as, according to you, it was abolished, no longer exists?


No, spammer, stuff your again spam, that devilish lie, as I/countless others on TOL have given you dozens of scripture, but you delete them, change them, you devil boy.You're not in my league, scripturally, as you have 70% less scripture than I do, as you, upon your father, the devil's orders, deleted Genesis-Malachi, demon.

Under the New Covenant, which is Jesus himself, the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. The Pharisee, whose religion is law, cannot believe this even though the scripture teaches it, Hebrews 8:13.

Ephesians says no such thing, you deceiver, as you have been shown, by me/others, but you continue to spam it, denying that Christ died for our sins-on record.

All of that and little to no scripture.

Christians are not under the law because they are "in Christ" Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation to those that are "In Christ" Romans 8:1.

Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation. This is why Paul said to the Galatians, "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, DO YOU NOT HEAR THE LAW?" The law will damn you to hell. Not only that the law will cause you to sin, Romans 7:8-12.

The law is holy and good because it reveals the just, holy nature of God. But you don't want to be under that. If you stand before God in the judgment and you are judged by the law, you will most certainly perish.

Again, no scripture and then he uses secular examples to make his point.

No, spammer, again you spam that devilish lie, as I/countless others on TOL have given you dozens of scripture, but you delete them, change them, you devil boy.

There is no indication that John W. is a Christian. We are called to try the Spirits to see if they be of God, 1 John 4:1. John W,s spirit is not of God.

Christians don't call Christians demons and other names. Not only that he is not able to receive truth. Ephesians 2:15 plainly says that the law has been abolished, "even the law of commandments" If the law has not been abolished then we are under it and are subject to it.

Jesus took us out from under the law because it was "Contrary to us" Colossians 2:14. No one could keep it or do it. It is a human impossibility.

You are not Christian, you devious wolf:

You are trying to use Old Testament scripture to make your point. There is a problem with that. The Old Testament along with the Old Covenant have been abolished.

Thank God that the law has been abolished for Christians.

You should be dancing in the streets. Instead you want to be under it.

Pate: No, the sin debt/IOU, has been abolished, you deceiver, not the law of God:

Jesus took us out from under the law because it was "contrary to us" Colossians 2:14. No one could keep it or do it. I am very happy to be free from the law.

Jesus took us out from under the law because it was "Contrary to us" Colossians 2:14. No one could keep it or do it. It is a human impossibility.

More of Pate's satanic, devilish changing, abolishing scripture, as he abolishes "handwriting of" in Colossians 2:14 KJV.

The bible: ...blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us...

The devil and his child Pate: ...blotting out the ordinances(law)that was against us....


No , you wicked wolf, the Lord Jesus Christ blotted out the sin debt, the "bond indenture," the IOU=the handwriting=that was against us,contrary to us, you filthy devil boy, not the good, holy, just, spiritual law of God.

"The $2 bill of the US has been abolished."

Pate's corruption: See!!!! The US has been abolished, as I deleted "$2 bill of"!!!


Pate, to the judge: Judge, these laws against speeding, reckless driving, murder, rape, sodomy, prostitution..........................are contrary to all of us in society!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Abolish them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!They are an impossibility to achieve!!!

The judge, to Pate:No, moron, lunatic, the laws are good, they are not contrary to society. What is contrary to you, and others, is the debit/fine, you owe, for breaking those laws, creating a transgression, offense(sin). Throw this man out of my court.


Pate: Abolish the laws!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Pate,to the judge: Unless you abolish the laws against speeding, murder,,................................................I will be under their jurisdiction, and judged!!!!! Abolish these laws!!!!!!!If these laws exist, I am under their authority, condemned automatically!!!!!!Abolish them!!!!

The judge: Lock this lunatic up, and put on him 2 straight jackets.

Pate, to the judge: I cannot keep these laws!!! Abolish them!!! They are the problem, they are not good, and are contrary to me, and all of society. They are the problem, not me!!!!!!That is the solution!!!!


The judge: No, the laws are good. You are the problem, as you breaking them, is contrary to society, and the resulting fine/debt, is contrary to you. The good law stands. Lock this man up for disorderly conduct, intoxication.

Pate: Abolish the law!!!


The Judge: Tell you what, Pate. Someone has offered to pay your fine/debt. Interested?


Pate: No!!!!! The solution is not someone, in my place(The Lord Jesus Christ), paying my debt/IOU(sin debt) for an offence/transgression against the laws of the US(Christ dying for my sins for transgressing God's holy, good, just, spiritual law), saw)!!! The solution is to abolish these bad laws!!!!! I reject anyone paying for my debt/fine!!!!


Pate rejects that Christ died for our sins, as his "solution" makes the Saviour's dying of no effect, as He died in vain.


On record.
Pate: If the laws of foreign countries exist, I am under them, subject to their jurisdiction. Abolish them!!!!!


This is the demonic "logic" of this poser.You vile, demonic deceiver.



He is a child of the devil, a wolf, in sheep's clothing, God hating, Christ rejecting demon, as no Christian, believer in the LORD God of the bible, would assert this:

You are trying to use Old Testament scripture to make your point. There is a problem with that. The Old Testament along with the Old Covenant have been abolished.

Psalms 111 KJV
7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.

8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.


Pate: To h with you, "god"-your laws are not good, not holy, not just, and are now void, as "Jesus" came to destroy your law, as the law is the problem, not me, as the law against lying, cheating, murder, theft, sodomy........are all against us, not the sin debt for breaking them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

King James Version (KJV)

 

[Robert Pate]

It is no wonder that John W. hates the idea that the law has been abolished.

This is why the Pharisees hated Paul. Paul told them that their Jewish religion was worthless. This is why they wanted to kill him.

What the law was to the Pharisees, Jesus Christ is to the New Testament Christian.

 

[john w]

You are trying to use Old Testament scripture to make your point. There is a problem with that. The Old Testament along with the Old Covenant have been abolished.

Deuteronomy 4 KJV


2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

Pate: To h with you, "god," as you are trying to use Old Testament scripture to make your point. The Old Testament, including Deuteronomy 4:2 KJV, has been abolished!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Deuteronomy 12 KJV

32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.


Pate: To h with you, "god," as you are trying to use Old Testament scripture to make your point. The Old Testament, including Deuteronomy 12:32 KJV, has been abolished!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[john w]

It is no wonder that John W. hates the idea that the law has been abolished.

This is why the Pharisees hated Paul. Paul told them that their Jewish religion was worthless. This is why they wanted to kill him.

What the law was to the Pharisees, Jesus Christ is to the New Testament Christian.

Observe, the continued deception, on orders from satan....The demon changes the subject, "argument," moves the goalposts, creates a moving target. This thread is not about your other satanic assertion, that the law is not holy, is not good, is not spiritual, and no longer exists, as it has been destroyed, as you spam. This thread is about you, on record, asserting, that "The Old Testament," Genesis-Malachi, has been abolished, you vile deceiver:


Read it...Face you....Defiled, seared conscience, and all-satanic:

You are trying to use Old Testament scripture to make your point. There is a problem with that. The Old Testament along with the Old Covenant have been abolished.

 

[john w]

It is no wonder that John W. hates the idea that the law has been abolished.

This is why the Pharisees hated Paul. Paul told them that their Jewish religion was worthless. This is why they wanted to kill him.

What the law was to the Pharisees, Jesus Christ is to the New Testament Christian.

No, you hate the Lord Jesus Christ, as you, on record, assert that he did not die for our sins, died in vain.


Pate argues that the solution to the sins issue, is not Christ dying for our sins, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, to blot out/wipe out/pay for the sin debt, "man's IOU" for breaking the good, holy, spiritual law of God, per Paul, in Romans 7, which Paul asserts is not void, as the problem is not with man, but with the God's law, as he asserts that it is not good, not holy, not spiritual, as it is the law, that is contrary/against us, not the sin debt/IOU that is contrary to/against us; Pate denies that the sin debt/IOU is contrary/ against us, as He asserts that God's laws against murder, lying, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery,......................................are contrary/against us, are not for our benefit, are not good, not holy, not spiritual; His "solution" is for the LORD God to destroy/abolish/make void the law, so there is o offense to break, not Christ dying for our sins, He paying the debt/IOU for us, in our place..



Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU., Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...

Delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is good, holy, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.



Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not good/holy/spiritual, and the problem is not with man, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.



The "secular" example of Pate's "reasoning::



Pate gets a speeding ticket. He goes to court, and, in front of the judge...



Pate:Judge, I demand that you abolish/destroy the law against speeding. It is not a good law, because I/others cannot keep it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!This law is not for my benefit, or society's-it is contrary to/against me/society!!!!!!!!!! Abolish it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And, if you do not abolish it, it automatically condemns me, judges me, as guilty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





The judge: No, the laws are good, and are for everyone's benefit, including yours. They are not against you, are not contrary to you, they are not against society, they are not contrary to society, -they stand. The problem is with you/others breaking these good laws, and the debt you/others must pay for these offenses(sins) you committed. That is what is contrary to/against you/others. Pay the fine. The law cannot condemn you, just because it is in place.



Pate: No!!!!! Abolish the law!!!!!!!



The judge: Either pay the fine, or go to jail-the law stands.



Pate: No!!!!The laws are not good-they are the problem, not me!!!!





Benevolent, gracious judge: Tell you what, Pate. Someone just paid your fine/debt/IOU(sin, offense, transgression) on your behalf. Justice is served. You are free to go(Christ died for our sins....paying the sin debt, IOU)



Pate: No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That person need not have paid my fine/debt!!!!!(Christ need not die to pay the sin debt/IOU). The solution is to abolish, destroy, make void, the laws against speeding(fill in the blank), so that we will not have to "do" these laws, obey them, and the solution is not the fine being satisfied(Christ-propitiation)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Benevolent, gracious judge: Lock up this man for dementia, contempt of court, lunacy-put him in a straight jacket.


And now, in wickedness, attempt to delete Genesis-Malachi. You will lose, demon:

Matthew 24:35 KJV Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.



1 Peter KJV
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

 

[Robert Pate]

No, you hate the Lord Jesus Christ, as you, on record, assert that he did not die for our sins, died in vain.


Pate argues that the solution to the sins issue, is not Christ dying for our sins, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, to blot out/wipe out/pay for the sin debt, "man's IOU" for breaking the good, holy, spiritual law of God, per Paul, in Romans 7, which Paul asserts is not void, as the problem is not with man, but with the God's law, as he asserts that it is not good, not holy, not spiritual, as it is the law, that is contrary/against us, not the sin debt/IOU that is contrary to/against us; Pate denies that the sin debt/IOU is contrary/ against us, as He asserts that God's laws against murder, lying, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery,......................................are contrary/against us, are not for our benefit, are not good, not holy, not spiritual; His "solution" is for the LORD God to destroy/abolish/make void the law, so there is o offense to break, not Christ dying for our sins, He paying the debt/IOU for us, in our place..



Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU., Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...

Deletes "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is good, holy, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.



Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not good/holy/spiritual, and the problem is not with man, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.



The "secular" example of Pate's "reasoning::



Pate gets a speeding ticket. He goes to court, and, in front of the judge...



Pate:Judge, I demand that you abolish/destroy the law against speeding. It is not a good law, because I/others cannot keep it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!This law is not for my benefit, or society's-it is contrary to/against me/society!!!!!!!!!! Abolish it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And, if you do not abolish it, it automatically condemns me, judges me, as guilty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





The judge: No, the laws are good, and are for everyone's benefit, including yours. They are not against you, are not contrary to you, they are not against society, they are not contrary to society, -they stand. The problem is with you/others breaking these good laws, and the debt you/others must pay for these offenses(sins) you committed. That is what is contrary to/against you/others. Pay the fine. The law cannot condemn you, just because it is in place.



Pate: No!!!!! Abolish the law!!!!!!!



The judge: Either pay the fine, or go to jail-the law stands.



Pate: No!!!!The laws are not good-they are the problem, not me!!!!





Benevolent, gracious judge: Tell you what, Pate. Someone just paid your fine/debt/IOU(sin, offense, transgression) on your behalf. Justice is served. You are free to go(Christ died for our sins....paying the sin debt, IOU)



Pate: No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That person need not have paid my fine/debt!!!!!(Christ need not die to pay the sin debt/IOU). The solution is to abolish, destroy, make void, the laws against speeding(fill in the blank), so that we will not have to "do" these laws, obey them, and the solution is not the fine being satisfied(Christ-propitiation)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Benevolent, gracious judge: Lock up this man for dementia, contempt of court, lunacy-put him in a straight jacket.

You are saying a lot of things that I have never said.

There can be no salvation for anyone if the law has not been abolished. The abolishment of the law is part of the Gospel.

No one will be saved if they have not been delivered from the law. The purpose of the law is to judge and condemn. "There is no condemnation for those that are "In Christ" Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation because the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.

 

[john w]

It is no wonder that John W. hates the idea that the law has been abolished.

This is why the Pharisees hated Paul. Paul told them that their Jewish religion was worthless. This is why they wanted to kill him.

What the law was to the Pharisees, Jesus Christ is to the New Testament Christian.

Tell us why, then, murder, theft, adultery, lying....are wrong, if their is no objective source outside of yourself, such as the holy, good, spiritual law of God, to define wrong. Tell all of TOL, again, what you assert, i.e., right/wrong is determined subjectively, by each individual, through feelings. It is called ethical subjectivism, moral relativism. And you try to "splain it away, Lucy," with, "Well, you see, the Holy Spirit tells me that murder, theft, adultery, lying, are wrong, and my Holy Spirit is 'more right' than yours, as everyone knows that.....is wrong....


Go ahead, POPE Pate.

Months of silence, from this demonic child of the devil, as the devil has a gag order on him.

 

[Robert Pate]

Tell us why, then, murder, theft, adultery, lying....are wrong, if their is no objective source outside of yourself, such as the holy, good, spiritual law of God, to define wrong. Tell all of TOL, again, what you told me,i.e., right/wrong is determined subjectively, by each individual, through feelings, experiences, and consensus. It is called ethical subjectivism, moral relativism. And you try to "splain it away, Lucy," with, "Well, you see, the Holy Spirit tells me that murder, theft, adultery, lying, are wrong, and my Holy Spirit is 'more right' than yours, as everyone knows, the consensus knows, and my parents taught me, that murder, theft, adultery, lying,are wrong, and everyone else is wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


Months of silence, from this demonic child of the devil, as the devil has a gag order on him.

I am not silent, I am refuting everything that you say with scripture.

The law is not for the righteous man (the Christian) 1 Timothy 1:9,10.

The law is not for the righteous man, because the righteous man is not led by law. He is led by the Holy Spirit, who is the teacher of truth, John 16:13.

Those that need the law are sinners and unbelievers like yourself, 1 Timothy 1:9,10.

 

[john w]

You are saying a lot of things that I have never said.

There can be no salvation for anyone if the law has not been abolished. The abolishment of the law is part of the Gospel.

No one will be saved if they have not been delivered from the law. The purpose of the law is to judge and condemn. "There is no condemnation for those that are "In Christ" Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation because the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.

No, you hate the Lord Jesus Christ, as you, on record, assert that he did not die for our sins, died in vain.

There can be no salvation for anyone if the law has not been abolished.

=perverts the gospel of Christ, asserting that Christ died for no reason, as God should have abolished the law, instead of the Saviour paying the sin debt, for breaking an existing good, holy, just, spiritual law.


Pate, to the judge: Abolish the law judge, as the laws against murder, rape, speeding are against us, as these laws are the problem, not us breaking them, creating an offense, as the solution is to abolish these bad laws, as they are not good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The judge: No, the laws are good, are good for society-the fine/debt people need to pay, for the offece(sin) is contrary to them. Pay the fine, or have someone else(Christ) pay that debt for you. Get out of my court, lunatic.

Pate: No!!! Abolish that bad law!!!! That is the solution!!! I need not anyone pay the debt(Christ) for my debt/IOU!!!!!!!

=Pate, on record, rejects the LORD God's solution to the sin problem/debt owed, i.e., Christ dying for our offenses/sins, against HIS holy, good law, and flips the bird at God, and demands that the good law be destroyed-ON RECORD.

Pate argues that the solution to the sins issue, is not Christ dying for our sins, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, to blot out/wipe out/pay for the sin debt, "man's IOU" for breaking the good, holy, spiritual law of God, per Paul, in Romans 7, which Paul asserts is not void, as the problem is not with man, but with the God's law, as he asserts that it is not good, not holy, not spiritual, as it is the law, that is contrary/against us, not the sin debt/IOU that is contrary to/against us; Pate denies that the sin debt/IOU is contrary/ against us, as He asserts that God's laws against murder, lying, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery,......................................are contrary/against us, are not for our benefit, are not good, not holy, not spiritual; His "solution" is for the LORD God to destroy/abolish/make void the law, so there is o offense to break, not Christ dying for our sins, He paying the debt/IOU for us, in our place..



Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU., Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...

Deletes "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is good, holy, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.



Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not good/holy/spiritual, and the problem is not with man, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.



The "secular" example of Pate's "reasoning::



Pate gets a speeding ticket. He goes to court, and, in front of the judge...



Pate:Judge, I demand that you abolish/destroy the law against speeding. It is not a good law, because I/others cannot keep it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!This law is not for my benefit, or society's-it is contrary to/against me/society!!!!!!!!!! Abolish it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And, if you do not abolish it, it automatically condemns me, judges me, as guilty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





The judge: No, the laws are good, and are for everyone's benefit, including yours. They are not against you, are not contrary to you, they are not against society, they are not contrary to society, -they stand. The problem is with you/others breaking these good laws, and the debt you/others must pay for these offenses(sins) you committed. That is what is contrary to/against you/others. Pay the fine. The law cannot condemn you, just because it is in place.



Pate: No!!!!! Abolish the law!!!!!!!



The judge: Either pay the fine, or go to jail-the law stands.



Pate: No!!!!The laws are not good-they are the problem, not me!!!!





Benevolent, gracious judge: Tell you what, Pate. Someone just paid your fine/debt/IOU(sin, offense, transgression) on your behalf. Justice is served. You are free to go(Christ died for our sins....paying the sin debt, IOU)



Pate: No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That person need not have paid my fine/debt!!!!!(Christ need not die to pay the sin debt/IOU). The solution is to abolish, destroy, make void, the laws against speeding(fill in the blank), so that we will not have to "do" these laws, obey them, and the solution is not the fine being satisfied(Christ-propitiation)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Benevolent, gracious judge: Lock up this man for dementia, contempt of court, lunacy-put him in a straight jacket.

 

[john w]

I am not silent, I am refuting everything that you say with scripture.

The law is not for the righteous man (the Christian) 1 Timothy 1:9,10.

The law is not for the righteous man, because the righteous man is not led by law. He is led by the Holy Spirit, who is the teacher of truth, John 16:13.

Those that need the law are sinners and unbelievers like yourself, 1 Timothy 1:9,10.

Non responsive, evasion,from the slick devil child. The issue is not the law as a rule of life, or to whom does it apply. The issue is, since you argued, on record, that the Holy Spirit replaces the law of God, for the believer( That is your "argument."), if the law applies to the lost, and not the believer, having been replaced by the Holy Spirit, according to you, replacing the good, holy,.....law, how are the saved to determine, objectively, what is right/wrong, if the law no longer exist, Pate? Answer:

Tell us why, then, murder, theft, adultery, lying....are wrong, if their is no objective source outside of yourself, such as the holy, good, spiritual law of God, to define wrong. Tell all of TOL, again, what you told me,i.e., right/wrong is determined subjectively, by each individual, through feelings, experiences, and consensus. It is called ethical subjectivism, moral relativism. And you try to "splain it away, Lucy," with, "Well, you see, the Holy Spirit tells me that murder, theft, adultery, lying, are wrong, and my Holy Spirit is 'more right' than yours, as everyone knows, the consensus knows, and my parents taught me, that murder, theft, adultery, lying,are wrong, and everyone else is wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


Months of silence, from this demonic child of the devil, as the devil has a gag order on him.


Tell us, Pate, to one who would tell you:
"I am led by the Holy Spirit. You taught me that the Holy Spirit replaced the law of God. He tells me that sodomy, multiple wives is OK."

What would you say? Go ahead, Pate. Tell us all.

 

[Jacob]

Robert Pate condemns people and he doesn't know the truth; but he doesn't like it when others do what he does. He is a hypocrite, among other things.

It is difficult to tell people that they are wrong without the law. Can this be done with Jesus? In any case God's Law is about love of God and love of your neighbor. You are to love your neighbor as yourself. Share the truth in love. That is, this is what we are supposed to do. I struggle with if there should be any punishment for sin, without condemning judging or being hypocritical. Meaning, you can tell someone that they are wrong. And yet is the Law still the Law? There is a New Covenant for the House of Israel and the House of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts. So then, or, what does this mean? Does it mean we don't judge or does it mean we follow the law God's law which He has put or placed in within inside, of, us? Then, when would you tell someone that they are wrong? Would you warn someone about what they are doing, what the punishment for it is, according to the Law? Would you tell someone that what they are doing is wrong (what are the consequences of or for doing this?)? This means, if telling someone that they are wrong means that they might be judged or condemned if they continue or do that which you are warning them of what they shouldn't do, be it that they do it a second time or continue doing what you are telling them warning them is wrong to do?

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[God's Truth]

It is difficult to tell people that they are wrong without the law. Can this be done with Jesus? In any case God's Law is about love of God and love of your neighbor. You are to love your neighbor as yourself. Share the truth in love. That is, this is what we are supposed to do. I struggle with if there should be any punishment for sin, without condemning judging or being hypocritical. Meaning, you can tell someone that they are wrong. And yet is the Law still the Law? There is a New Covenant for the House of Israel and the House of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts. So then, or, what does this mean? Does it mean we don't judge or does it mean we follow the law God's law which He has put or placed in within inside, of, us? Then, when would you tell someone that they are wrong? Would you warn someone about what they are doing, what the punishment for it is, according to the Law? Would you tell someone that what they are doing is wrong (what are the consequences of or for doing this?)? This means, if telling someone that they are wrong means that they might be judged or condemned if they continue or do that which you are warning them of what they shouldn't do, be it that they do it a second time or continue doing what you are telling them warning them is wrong to do?

Shalom.

Jacob

I think your questions are good and they show what false teachers and false doctrines have done to many people. People are taught that obeying in any way is impossible, filthy, and wrong. Some separate Jesus from the old law and separate Paul from Jesus. As if Paul taught their strange doctrine of believe and you can't obey anything, or as the Calvinists teach that we cannot even believe without a special enabling from God. Peter and James rebuke this strange don't obey misunderstanding about Paul, and they call people ignorant, uneducated, and fools. See all of 2 Peter Chapter 3, and especially 2 Peter 3:16, and 17. After Peter calls people uneducated and ignorant, he warns us to obey. James says it is foolish to think we only have to believe. James says faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone. See James 2:14, 17, 19, 22, 24, and 29.
Common sense escapes them and they cannot be reasoned with about their misunderstanding.

The old law was strict and the people had to clean themselves so that God would live among them and call them His people. Some people would only obey out of fear of God; and others obeyed God out of fear and also out of faith. God did not like it that the people would give sin offerings but not really be sorry for their sins. God said that He would make a New Covenant one day and that He would clean the people.

Jesus came to give that New Covenant. Jesus gave the rules and regulations for the New Covenant, and then like the lambs that had their blood shed to clean the people, Jesus was the last Lamb, to clean people of their sins, once and for all.

The Apostles preached and taught Jesus to the Jews, and Gentiles, and then Paul was brought in to the ministry and the Jews didn't trust Paul, because he had Christian Jews, men and women dragged out of their homes and put in prison to be tortured and killed. So Jesus sent Paul far away to the Gentiles.

The Bible never ever tells us that we no longer have to obey God. The 'not of works' is about not working at cleaning ourselves as once was the law. Jesus cleans us now. We still have to obey. We come to God though Jesus and ask God to forgive us through Jesus. We repent of our sins and call on Jesus to help us. Jesus gives us his Holy Spirit to help us.