Catholics Should Believe Their First Pope

[turbosixx]

Your glaring False Dilemma Fallacy is noted. Back to Post #127.

If it's Christ's church, why does it say St. Mary's catholic church? Why isn't Christ's name on HIS church? Doesn't say it's his church, it's not his chruch. Your blindness is noted.

 

[Sancocho]

2 Thes. 2:15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

1 Cor. 12:8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;

The catholics didn't give us the bible, God did. God has been known to use wicked people to accomplish his will.

Jesus Christ refutes your claim:

"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit"

Therefore, since the bible is clearly "good" fruit, the tree, the RCC, that created the fruit is also good.

No Protestant can trace their bible to anything other than the Catholic Bible.

 

[turbosixx]

Jesus Christ refutes your claim:

"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit"

Therefore, since the bible is clearly "good" fruit, it tree, the RCC, that created the fruit is also good.

Is envy and strife good fruit? Yet, those preaching from envy and strife were accomplishing good.

Phil. 1:15 Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, but some also from good will; 16 the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel; 17 the former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment. 18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I rejoice.

The "catholic" organization did bring it together out of love, but to control and gain power.

No Protestant can trace their bible to anything other than the Catholic Bible.

What is protestant and catholic. People are either Christians or they are not. Is Christ divided??

 

[Sancocho]

Is envy and strife good fruit? Yet, those preaching from envy and strife were accomplishing good.

Phil. 1:15 Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, but some also from good will; 16 the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel; 17 the former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment. 18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I rejoice.





What is protestant and catholic. People are either Christians or they are not. Is Christ divided??

Envy is bad. So are untruths. We as disciples are called to say the truth.

As far as Protestants go, I was one and my wife is one as well. I would never presuppose to say any Protestant does not know Christ but unfortunately a lot of Protestants say that about Catholics.

I am here to preach the Truth and let those who knowingly separate the Body of Christ using lies that there are severe consequences - such as our country being a disgrace to Christianity. We haven't hit the bottom yet and we Americans shouldn't assume that everyone else is as bad off as us. Our arrogance and desire to lead people from Christ will be our undoing.

 

[turbosixx]

I am here to preach the Truth and let those who knowingly separate the Body of Christ using lies that there are severe consequences - such as our country being a disgrace to Christianity. We haven't hit the bottom yet and we Americans shouldn't assume that everyone else is as bad off as us. Our arrogance and desire to lead people from Christ will be our undoing.

I hear what your saying. I am here to challenge my understanding of truth. I want to know the truth because no matter how good or sincere our intentions are, we will be judged according to truth. Paul lived his whole life in sincere service to God, yet he found himself working against him.

I see lots of problems in "Christianity" today and one is division. We are either in Christ or not and in Christ there is no division.

 

[Ben Masada]

There are copious amounts of non-Catholic churches. However, not all of
them preach doctrinal truth. Not all preach Paul's Gospel. (Grace Message)

The "True Believers" are those who are part of the Body of Christ. (The true
church)

Behold! And I thought rather that the opposite was true. That especially Catholics preached the gospel of Paul. Anyway, the Jews are the only ones to preach the gospel of Jesus which was Judaism. I hope you do not deny the truth that Jesus was a Jew whose Faith was Judaism.

 

[everready]

Contrary to your apparent assumptions, neither of the passages you quoted here has anything to do with the question of precisely how lay believers normally obtain their interpretations of Scripture and formulate their doctrinal beliefs. Rather than making them up for themselves, the New Testament indicates that lay Christians are to receive their understanding of the Bible and their theological beliefs from the Magisterium (apostles/bishops) of Christ's one historic Church (Mt. 28:18-20; Lk. 10:16; Ac. 15:2; 16:4; Eph. 3:5, 10; 2 Thess. 3:4; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6). Christ's Church teaches us; we do not teach Christ's Church. The Church founded by Jesus Christ is not now---nor has it ever been---a democracy. Christ is our King, not our president. Sorry for your confusion.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Rome says: lay Christians are to receive their understanding of the Bible and their theological beliefs from the Magisterium

Jesus says: John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

You are allowing man to guide you into all truth, why is that?


everready

 

[Cruciform]

If it's Christ's Church, why does it say St. Mary's Catholic Church?

Note first that you offered no disproof whatsoever of my statement in Post #160, and so it stands exactly as given. Secondly, identifying local parish churches with particular past Saints---especially the apostles and Mary---is a practice that goes back to the Early Church Period. Each is simply a local representative of Christ's one historic Church that is named for a prominent example of a disciple of Jesus Christ.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[Cruciform]

Rome says: lay Christians are to receive their understanding of the Bible and their theological beliefs from the Magisterium.

Correct. Christ's one historic Church says one thing, while your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect says another. Which, then, should we follow? Which possesses the doctrinal authority of Jesus Christ himself (Lk. 10:16; Ac. 15:2; 1 Tim. 3:15)?

Jesus says: John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth...

Jesus is speaking here not to every individual lay believer in the Church, but specifically to the chosen apostolic leaders (Magisterium) of his one historic Church, that is, to the apostles and bishops of his Church (see context). Sorry for your confusion.

You are allowing man to guide you into all truth, why is that?

You are allowing the opinions of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect to guide you away from all truth. Why is that?



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[republicanchick]

Rome says: lay Christians are to receive their understanding of the Bible and their theological beliefs from the Magisterium

Jesus says: John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

You are allowing man to guide you into all truth, why is that?


everready

so are you saying that the Holy Spirit doesn't guide priests/bishops/cardinals and the pope?

if the Holy Spirit were leading Protestants, they would all believe the same doctrines (as all true Catholics are all united in their beliefs), but no, we have about 60,000 different denoms in Protestantinsm... all teaching different things... some baptize babies, some s ay that is absurd... some say women pastors, some say No...


etc... etc...


_

 

[turbosixx]

Note first that you offered no disproof whatsoever of my statement in Post #160, and so it stands exactly as given. Secondly, identifying local parish churches with particular past Saints---especially the apostles and Mary---is a practice that goes back to the Early Church Period. Each is simply a local representative of Christ's one historic Church that is named for a prominent example of a disciple of Jesus Christ.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

In reference to post 160, I'm not concerned with your accusations unless you can back them with scripture.

"a practice that goes back to the Early Church Period" is not using inspired biblical authority, that is using the authority of men. That is not HIS church.

Here is a picture of the actual building where I attend. WE identify as HIS church? WE follow HIS authority.

Rom. 16:16 Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ greet you.

You are following and worshiping men, says so right on your buildings and the things you do.
.

 

[Cruciform]

In reference to post 160, I'm not concerned with your accusations unless you can back them with scripture.

Neither did you back with Scripture your comments to which I was responding (Post #159).

"a practice that goes back to the Early Church Period" is not using inspired biblical authority, that is using the authority of men. That is not HIS church.

Your comment here assumes the validity of the 16th-century notion of sola scriptura, a doctrine which is itself nowhere taught in Scripture, and so which merely refutes itself. Try again.

Here is a picture of the actual building where I attend. WE identify as HIS church? WE follow HIS authority.

Here is what is printed on the sign of the "church" my Mormon friend attends:

The Church of
Jesus Christ
of Latter-Day Saints​

HE identifies as "Christ's church," too. Does my Mormon friend, then, also "follow HIS authority"? :think:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[turbosixx]

Neither did you back with Scripture your comments to which I was responding (Post #159).


Your comment here assumes the validity of the 16th-century notion of sola scriptura, a doctrine which is itself nowhere taught in Scripture, and so which merely refutes itself. Try again.


Here is what is printed on the sign of the "church" my Mormon friend attends:

The Church of
Jesus Christ
of Latter-Day Saints​

HE identifies as "Christ's church," too. Does my Mormon friend, then, also "follow HIS authority"? :think:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

You just can't see the truth.

"16th-century notion" Once again, MEN not scripture. I could care less what men think, all I care about is what God thinks. I go with the first century facts, found in scripture, not notions.
2 Tim. 3: 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

The Mormons, do not use scripture for their authority, they use the book of mormon. They ADDED mans authority just like they added "latter day saints". There is only one church established at Pentecost, again "latter day saints" not found in scripture but in writings other than scripture just like the rcc.

 

[everready]

Correct. Christ's one historic Church says one thing, while your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect says another. Which, then, should we follow? Which possesses the doctrinal authority of Jesus Christ himself (Lk. 10:16; Ac. 15:2; 1 Tim. 3:15)?


Jesus is speaking here not to every individual lay believer in the Church, but specifically to the chosen apostolic leaders (Magisterium) of his one historic Church, that is, to the apostles and bishops of his Church (see context). Sorry for your confusion.


You are allowing the opinions of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect to guide you away from all truth. Why is that?



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Jesus speaks throughout the entire bible Jesus is the word of God.

We have one high priest not invented by man.

Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

We can come boldly to the throne of grace no strings attached.


everready

 

[Right Divider]

What did they do before Catholics gave them their bible?

Broken record, Broken record, Broken record, Broken record, Broken record, Broken record, Broken record, Broken record..... :dog:

Quit repeating this ridiculous lie and say something that is actually true.

 

[Sancocho]

Broken record, Broken record, Broken record, Broken record, Broken record, Broken record, Broken record, Broken record..... :dog:

Quit repeating this ridiculous lie and say something that is actually true.

I became a Protestant when I believed the claims against the Catholic Church.

However, after becoming a Protestant after researching all the "evidence" I found out it was baseless.

If you have something to "prove" do it with a reference not just because you "say so".

 

[turbosixx]

I became a Protestant when I believed the claims against the Catholic Church.

However, after becoming a Protestant after researching all the "evidence" I found out it was baseless.

If you have something to "prove" do it with a reference not just because you "say so".

I'm curious what you found baseless?

 

[Sancocho]

I'm curious what you found baseless?

Every claim against RCC doctrine.

 

[turbosixx]

Every claim against RCC doctrine.

Were did you get your proof?

 

[Sancocho]

Were did you get your proof?

I have the Bible, Catholic doctrine and recorded history and use a little logic.