Originally posted by
3rdAngel View Post True I believe the same dear friend. So may I ask are we in Christ if we are not believing and following what Jesus says? *John 10:26-27
Your response...
Observing Jesus is being in rest.
I am sorry dear friend. How does this answer the question you are responding to? I asked you are we in Christ if we are not believing and following what Jesus says? *John 10:26-27???. Let me answer the question for you from the scriptures.
No one is "IN CHRIST" if they do not believe and follow God's Word because to be "IN CHRIST" means to be in the Word believing and doing what the Word says through the Spirit of God be faith....
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JOHN 6:63, It is the spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing:
THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU THEY ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE.
GALATIANS 5:16.
WALK IN THE SPIRIT (the Word) AND YOU WILL NOT FULFILL THE LUSTS OF THE FLESH.
1 JOHN 5:4 Whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world and THIS IS THE VICTORY THAT OVER COMES THE WORLD EVEN OUR
FAITH (in the Word).
1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], AND HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.
JOHN 10:26-27 [26], But YOU BELIEVE NOT, BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT OF MY SHEEP, as I said to you. [27], MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, AND I KNOW THEM, AND THEY FOLLOW ME
MATTHEW 7:21 [21], Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; BUT HE THAT
DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.
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So you can see dear friend that only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word are "IN CHRIST" according to the scriptures. If we do not believe and do what God says the scriptures teach we are NOT "IN CHRIST" Now if God asks us in His 4th commandment to "REMEMBER" the the ""SEVENTH DAY SABBATH" day to keep it as a Holy day of rest (no work) and we say NO I will not. I will keep "SUNDAY" and there is not a single scripture in all of God's Word that teaches God's 4th commandment is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day and your KNOWINGLY breaking God's law, how can you be "IN CHRIST" dear GT? - You cannot according to the scriptures (see 1 JOHN 2:3-4)
If one is in Christ, then every day is holy, where we do no purification works and keep our faith in Jesus our rest.
Nonsense. Please provide the scripture. There is no scripture that says everyday is a Holy day. The scriptures only teach that God blessed the "SEVENTH" day and made it a "HOLY DAY" of "REST" where no work was to be done. You are confused here dear GT. If everyday was a Holy day of rest where no work can be done, how could anyone survive and make a living?
I understand why many denominations call Sunday their day to the Lord and not Saturday; however, observing a day as more holy than another is just wrong. Observing a special day does not make one more righteous or a sinner either way; unless of course you think it sin and do it while you believe it to be sin. It is something we have to be convinced in our own mind because if you do something you believe is a sin then it is sin. What is a sin is judging someone who doesn’t observe a day more special than another.
Dear GT, all you have provided here is your own opinion not based on the scriptures. We have looked at ROMANS 14 in detail verse by verse and seen this is talking about eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days, not what days God esteems which has nothing to do with God's 4th commandment which is not mentioned anywhere in all the book of Romans. Yet it is God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7 that says...
EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> [Because JESUS made it a Holy day of rest for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day] [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: [10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God [This is a direct reference from God's Word defining what the Sabbath is; The SABBATH = the SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK]: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.
This is referring back to GENESIS 2...
GENESIS 2:1-3 [1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY: because that in it he had RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] from all his work which God created and made.
As you can see above it is God's Word not mine that says God BLESSED and made HOLY the SEVENTH DAY of the week not me and it is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20. Are you not worried dear friend your taking a massive gamble with your salvation by denying God's Word and breaking his 4th commandment? There is not a single scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. Something to think about dear GT.
It seems a weak faith to believe if you have to work on a Saturday you believe you are sinning to the point of needing to be put to death. You are putting a burden on people that should not be. Jesus says to come to him for rest and what he asks for us to do is not burdensome. You are putting a burden on people that need not be. There are people such as yourself trying to be careful not to pick up a chair in their house to move it or clean up a mess that happened because it is worthy of death.
Actually it is quite the opposite. It is a strong faith to believe Gods' Word and do what God's Word says. The Sabbath is not a burden to those who love God it is a delight, peace and rest. There is no peace in Sin however which is breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments. This includes God's 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 and just like every other one of God's 10 commandments if we knowingly break them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11 and all those who continue in known unrepentant sin according to the scriptures will not enter into the kingdom of Heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son be rejecting his Word and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing dispite to the Spirit of God's grace *HEBREWS 10:26-31. Something to pray about dear GT.
Originally posted by
3rdAngel View PostSo why is God's 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath that God set aside and "blessed" and made as a "holy day" for all mankind of which Jesus is the creator or Lord of not a "shadow law"?
Well very simply all the "shadow laws" from the Mosaic book of the old covenant were given AFTER THE FALL of mankind. They where all without exception given after mankind had sinned and were a part of God's plan of salvation in the old covenant that pointed to God's plan of salvation in JESUS in the new covenant. For example all the sin offering pointed to JESUS as our lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world *John 1:29; Christ is our passover lamb slain for the sins of the whole world *1 Corinthians 5:7. Nearly every "shadow law for remission of sins including the Levitical Priesthood and the Sanctuary ceremonial laws were prophetic in nature pointing forward to Jesus and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant for the redemption of mankind and God's plan of salvation for mans sin and reconciliation with God.
So why exactly is God's 4th commandment weekly Sabbath NOT a SHADOW LAW?
Well because it is the only one of God's 10 commandments that point back to the FINISHED work of God at creation when there was NO SIN and NO plan of salvation because mankind was in perfect harmony with God and walked with God and no plan of salvation was needed or required. So it is impossible for God's plan to be a "shadow law" because "shadow laws" point forward. God's 4th commandment points BACKWARD (REMEMBER) to the FINISHED word of creation.....
EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY [Made Holy at creation
GENESIS 2:3]. [9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: [10], But THE SEVENTH DAY [
Genesis 2:1-3] IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD : in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: [WHY?] [11], FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM IS, AND RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY; WHEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY. [Referingto
GENESIS 2:1-3]
This is what the 4th commandment points back to...
GENESIS 2:1-3 [1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY: because that in it he had RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] from all his work which God created and made.
When the Sabbath was made for all mankind there was no sin so it is impossible for God's 4th commandment to be a "shadow law" of anything. Can you see this dear GT?
Your respnse....
What? God made the plan for salvation BEFORE He made the earth or created anything. Do you understand that the Bible says the plan for salvation was made before anything was made?
As posted earlier, God knowing the end from the beggining and making a plan for seeing that mankind would sin in the garden of Eden does not change that fact that the scriptures teach that the Sabbath was made BEFORE SIN so it cannot be a "SHADOW LAW" pointing to Christ. The "SHADOW LAWS" point FORWARD to Christ and his plan of salvation for sin and reconcilliation of man to God. The Sabbath points backwards to the finished work of creation. Man was also already with God, walking in perfect harmony with God and was without sin not needing reconciliation and saving from sin when the Sabbath was made for all mankind dear GT. Your point that God forseeing the future that mankind would eventually sin in Eden is not relevant and is a moot point. Can you honestly not see this dear GT?
QUOTE=God's Truth;n2748988] Man had not yet been born and had not sinned or did any work yet, so your argument is mote. Can you see then that it can’t be a day of rest from work if sin wasn’t in the world yet and no one had to work? Can you see then that it can’t be a day of rest from work if sin wasn’t in the world yet and no one had to work? [/QUOTE]
Nonsense. Mankind was created on the 6th day of creation (see GENESIS 1:26-31) while the Sabbath day was created on the "SEVENTH DAY" of the creation week (see GENESIS 2:1-3) so it your point that is a moot point. Can you see your mistake here dear GT? Mankind was to work 6 days in their own work (we were created in God's image) and rest on the seventh day that God blessed and made as a Holy day (see GENESIS 2:1-3).
Originally posted by
3rdAngel View Post True dear friend but just the same, if we are
knowingly (not unknowingly) break anyone of God's 10 commandments we are
not in Jesus
Your response...
Well that is not true. Jesus lives to intercede for us and one can find mercy when they repent of their sin
Sure it is true dear friend what do the scriptures teach? I asked you earlier (see above) are we in Christ if we are
not believing and following what Jesus says? *John 10:26-27???.
As shown earlier from the scriptures,
no one is "IN CHRIST" if they do not believe and follow God's Word because to be "IN CHRIST" means to be in the Word believing and doing what the Word says through the Spirit of God be faith (scriptures provided already above; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; JOHN 10:26-27; MATTHEW 7:21). Only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word are "IN CHRIST" according to the scriptures. If we do not believe and do what God says the scriptures teach we are NOT "IN CHRIST" Now if God asks us in His 4th commandment to "REMEMBER" the the ""SEVENTH DAY SABBATH" day to keep it as a Holy day of rest (no work) and we say NO I will not. I will keep "SUNDAY" and there is not a single scripture in all of God's Word that teaches God's 4th commandment is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day and your KNOWINGLY breaking God's law, how can you be "IN CHRIST" dear GT? - You cannot according to the scriptures (see 1 JOHN 2:3-4). JESUS living and interceding for us is only to those who by faith believe and follow what God's Word says. It is not a promise to those who choose to live in known unrepentant sin and reject God's Word *HEBREWS 10:26-31. Can you see what the scriptures teach here dear GT?
Notice that Paul and James don’t speak about Saturday when they speak of breaking a command by harming your neighbor.
Actually your trying to make an argument in silence. PAUL and JAMES are quoting from JESUS when JESUS says ON THESE TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS OF LOVE TO GOD AND MAN HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40. PAUL shows that when the scriptures refer to love your neighbore it is referring to God's 10 commandments that deal with our duty of love to our fellow man and states in ROMANS 13:8-10 that loving our neighbore is summing up those of the 10 commandments that are our duty of love to our fellow man...
ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS
FULFILLED THE LAW.
[9], For this, YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT KILL, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, YOU SHALL NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is BRIEFLY SUMMED UP IN THIS SAYING, NAMELY, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE
FULFILLING OF THE LAW.
Note: the Greek word used here for FULFILLED G4137 πληρόω; plēroō means to execute and to satisfy; to accomplish; to perfect; to complete; to perfect or to supply or give. The context is the law nomos; application and context is the 10 commandments.
James is stating the same thing here....
JAMES 2:8-12
[8], IF YOU FULFILL THE ROYAL LAW ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURE, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF, YOU DO WELL: [9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[10], FOR WHOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW, AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL.[11], FOR HE THAT SAID, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, SAID ALSO, DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU COMMIT NO ADULTERY, YET IF YOU KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW.
[12], So speak you, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
James is stating that if we break one of God's 10 commandment of our duty of love to our fellow man we stand guilty before God of sin.
Now the above 10 commandments are our duty of love to our fellow man but that does not mean that we do not have a duty of LOVE to GOD. As JESUS says that the greatest is to LOVE GOD which is expressed in the first four commandments on the 10 commandments. We show our love to God just like our neigbour as shown by PAUL and JAMES through obedience to God's law. So if we love God we will have no other God's, we will not make idols and worship them, we will not use God's name in vain and we will "REMEMBER" that SABBATH day to keep it Holy. Can you see your error here dear GT?
You are sinning by judging people as condemned and no longer in Christ if they don’t observe a Saturday more holy than another day.
Nonsense. Only God's Word has been shared with you dear GT. I do not judge you. It is God's Word that is rightouess judgement that we are to believe and follow. It is not beleiving and following God's Word that is sin *ROMANS 14:23; 1 JOHN 3:4; HEBREWS 10:26-31. We are not sinning by believing and following God's Word and sharing it. We are sinning by not believing and following God's Word as shown through the scriptures. It is God's Word that we accept or reject that is our judge and it is God's Word that will be our judge come judgement day according to the scriptures (see JOHN 12:46-47; JOHN 7:24; 1 JOHN 2:3-4).
There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgement day. God's sheep hear His voice and follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow. Let's all examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith or not and seek to have a closer walk with JESUS. Sin will keep us away from God and his salvation which is by believing and following God's Word...
God bless dear friend