CAN YOU HAVE GOD'S GRACE WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?

[God's Truth]

1 CORINTHIANS 7:19 CIRCUMCISION AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD

Luke 6:1
One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels. ² Some of the Pharisees asked, “Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”
³ Jesus answered them, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? ⁴ He entered the house of God, and taking the consecrated bread, he ate what is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.” ⁵ Then Jesus said to them, “The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

Exodus 15
4 Then the LORD said to Moses, “I will rain down bread from heaven for you. The people are to go out each day and gather enough for that day. In this way I will test them and see whether they will follow my instructions.
5 On the sixth day they are to prepare what they bring in, and that is to be twice as much as they gather on the other days.”
26 Six days you are to gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will not be any.”

27 Nevertheless, some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather it, but they found none.
28 Then the LORD said to Moses, “How long will you refuse to keep my commands and my instructions?
29 Bear in mind that the LORD has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyone is to stay where they are on the seventh day; no one is to go out.”


John 5:8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
John 5:10he Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God..



So from the scriptures, we can see that we can do good on the Sabbath ACCORDING TO THE LORD OF THE SABBATH, Jesus Christ.

If you have to go out and get food on the Sabbath, you can do it.

If you have to work that day, then ACCORDING TO JESUS THE LORD OF THE SABBATH you can.

Jesus says we can do good on the Sabbath.

Jesus says not to do evil on the Sabbath.

Luke 6:9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil?

 

[God's Truth]

So if circumcision and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping og the commandments of God is everything why deny God's 4th commandment when if we KNOWINGLY break anyone of God's 10 commandments we commit sin *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; HEBREWS 10:26-27?

Sorry dear friend it seems like God's Word disagrees with you. Perhaps it is time for us to agree to disagree as your only repeating yourself now and not addressing anything in my posts.

Thanks for the discussion.

May God bless you as you seek him in His Word. Ignoring God's Word however does not make it disappear. It will be come our judge come judgement day *JOHN 12:47-48

God has blessed me.
You speak as an evil person.

 

[God's Truth]

Perhaps you are getting tired.

I don’t tire talking about God’s Truth.
It is from your imagination that I am tired.
Look how many posts it says I have made since joining the group almost eight years ago---and about 40,000 posts were taken off when the site had a rebooting of sorts.

Originally posted by 3rdAngel View Post The scriptures only teach that God blessed the "SEVENTH" day and made it a "HOLY DAY" of "REST" where no work was to be done. You are confused here dear GT. If everyday was a Holy day of rest where no work can be done, how could anyone survive and make a living?[/I]
Your response here...


Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
Nowhere did I say what you claim.
Sure you did here it is here....


Originally posted by God's Truth View Post If one is in Christ, then every day is holy, where we do no purification works and keep our faith in Jesus our rest.
Perhaps you did not read your post before sending it?

You are lying about what I said. You are twisting it to look like something was said that wasn’t.

GENESIS 2:1-3[/URL] [1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and HE RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; KEEP SABBATH] on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY: BECAUSE THAT IN IT HE HAD RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] from all his work which God created and made.

The reason the day is blessed and set apart as a holy day is to cease from work and rest.

God did not command humans not to work that day until He gave the law to Moses.

, Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW.
[9], For this, YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT KILL, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, YOU SHALL NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is BRIEFLY SUMMED UP IN THIS SAYING, NAMELY, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

It doesn’t harm your neighbor if you do work and get some food on the Sabbath.

Jesus didn’t harm anyone when he and his disciples gathered food on the Sabbath.

Jesus didn’t harm the man he told to get up and make your bed and carry it.

Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath and Jesus is the one who fulfilled the old law and gave us the new law.

Jesus could have told the man he healed to get up and leave. Jesus didn’t tell him to get up and walk but don’t make your bed and carry it because you are not supposed to on the Sabbath. Jesus didn’t say leave your bed there and don’t make it and carry it.
Jesus and the apostles gathered some grain on the Sabbath. Jesus didn’t say let us go to someone’s house who has extra for us to eat, or wait until the Sabbath is over what is one more day.
Besides it not being a sin to work and prepare your food on the Sabbath, Jesus made other changes to the old law.

Jesus made food clean.

Jesus taught one must go through him now to be a child of God’s.

Jesus taught one must have faith in him.

Jesus taught that no more eye for eye, tooth for tooth.

He taught that if someone steals your clothes from you they don’t have to pay it back.

He taught no more divorces for marrying others.

He taught no more being put to death for adultery.

Jesus made being angry and hating the same as murder.

Jesus made to lust the same as adultery.

 

[God's Truth]

How does this respond to what your quoting from dear GT? It doesn't. Of course I repented of my sins that I knew were sins when I first became a Christian. Did you?

You say you repented of your sins to get saved, yet you don't obey God while you preach falseness here by saying our obedience to Jesus has nothing to do with our getting saved.

 

[Lon]

I do not have an "edit" icon for some reason so please forgive my typos.

I believe it is a feature you receive after a certain number of posts, if I remember correctly.

 

[3rdAngel]

Originally posted by 3rdAngel View Post Nonsense dear friend. I think you are getting me mixed up with someone else. Please post me the link where I ever said God did not make the plan of salvation before the foundation of the earth?

Your response...

No, no mixing anyone up. I might have time to look up your words for you, we’ll see. The problem with that is even when I show you how more than once you spoke of the plan not being made before the creation of the world, you will probably still deny it, even when it is shown to you. That doesn’t mean you didn’t go against the plan being made BEFORE the creation of anything.

Yep did not think you would find anything you accused me of saying because I never said any such thing.

Originally posted by 3rdAngel View Post He knew that man would sin and made away of escape for him. As posted earlier your point is moot as the Sabbath was made before sin when mankind was in perfect harmony with God. This is already shown in detail in another post so need to repeat myself here. It seems all your accusations dear friend are not true and are simply a reflection of the very things you are doing.

Your response..

It is no bother for me to tell you a hundred times if need be: when God made the 7th day, He did not say and let Adam and Eve not work on that day. God made the command for no work that day when He gave the law to Moses.

You saying things 100 times does not make the scriptures disappear. Your just repeating yourself gain. As posted earlier JESUS says he made the Sabbath for mankind. Adam and Eve were created on the 6th day *GENESIS 1:26-31 and the Sabbath was made for mankind on the 7th day. Who do you think the Sabbath was given to at creation? Your confused and denying the very word of God.

Originally posted by 3rdAngel View Post I am sorry dear friend, here we will agree to disagree. All I see here is you repeating yourself and providing an opinion unsupported by the scriptures in order to deny scripture Who do you think God blessed, santified and made the seventh day Sabbath a holy day of rest for? JESUS answered this very question here....MARK 2:27 THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN..

Your response here...

No man had sinned yet and no man had worked yet when God made the 7th day. The law to not do any work on the Sabbath was given by God to Moses. So why do you keep saying it was not a command of the old law?

There was no laws when the Sabbath was made because there was no sin. This is the whole reason your premise that God's 4th commandment is a shadow law is in error as there was no sin when JESUS says that the Sabbath was made for all mankind. Man did not need a law to keep it as they were in perfect harmony with God to keep it.

Hope this is helpful

 

[3rdAngel]

Originally posted by 3rdAngel View Post As shown above the SABBATH is a part of the FINISHED WORK of CREATION and points back to creation (REMEMBER) *EXODUS 20:8. It was given BEFORE SIN and BEFORE THE NEED FOR A PLAN OF SALVATION when mankind was in perfect harmony with God so it is therefore impossible for Gods' 4th commandment to be a "shadow of things to come" because it points BACK to the finished work of creation. You are incorrect. The Sabbath was made and given to mankind in creation when God "BLESSED" that "SEVENTH DAY and make it a HOLY DAY of all mankind *GENESIS 2:1-3; MARK 2:27.

Your response....

You keep saying “points back”.A shadow are all things that were before he came. You keep saying “BEFORE SIN and BEFORE THE NEED FOR A PLAN OF SALVATION”. See there, you claimed you never said it, but here it is again you saying before the need for a plan of salvation! Now I don't have to go find the places where you said it because you keep repeating yourself. haaa You don’t even know what you say. God made the PLAN before the creation---BEFORE THE NEED for the plan. Your insistence of “pointing back” to the Sabbath day is in defiance to the fact that THE COMMAND TO NOT WORK ON THE SABBATH WAS THE LAW AS GIVEN TO MOSES. You keep insisting that it is not a shadow EVEN THOUGH A SHADOW IS EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED BEFORE JESUS CAME.

No one ever said God did not make a plan of salvation before sin. This is something your trying to say that no one has ever said as a distraction to what is actually being said. Try reading the post you are quoting from more carefully and slowly. As it shows your whole premise that God's 4th commandment is a "shadow law" to be in error. As shown more than once now you keep avoiding this question and have not addressed it. A "SHADOW LAW" from the old covenant was only ever given as a part of God's plan of salvation "AFTER" the fall of mankind (SIN) and points FORWARD to the promise of JESUS as our sacrifice for sin and his work on our behalf to save us from our sins. If there was "NO SIN" when the Sabbath was made for mankind. How can there be any "SHADOW LAWS" when mankind HAD NOT SINNED and was in perfect harmony with God? No plan of salvation is REQUIRED (although already made) when there is NO SIN! Do you understand now?

As shown above the SABBATH is a part of the FINISHED WORK of CREATION and points BACK to creation (REMEMBER) *EXODUS 20:8. It was given BEFORE SIN and BEFORE THE NEED FOR A PLAN OF SALVATION when mankind was in perfect harmony with God so it is therefore impossible for Gods' 4th commandment to be a "shadow of things to come" because it points BACK to the finished work of creation. You are incorrect. The Sabbath was made and given to mankind in creation when God "BLESSED" that "SEVENTH DAY and make it a HOLY DAY of all mankind *GENESIS 2:1-3; MARK 2:27.

 

[3rdAngel]

You do judge others according to a Sabbath. God says not to do that. I have given you the scriptures but you refuse to see it is what you do. God’s word says NOT TO JUDGE ANYONE according to a day. You sin gravely when you condemn others according to a day.

Nonsense dear friend. I do not judge you. However, Gods Word tells us to JUDGE RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT *JOHN 7:24! There is none righteouss no not one *ROMANS 3:10 so we cannot judge according to outward appearance but we are told to judge righteouss judgement *JOHN 7:24. Only God is righteous and we can can only make judgements according to what God's Word says (see PSALMS 119:137; ISAIAH 45:19; PSALMS 119:123; PSALMS 119:172). God's 10 Commandments are the very standard of what "RIGHTOEUSNESS" according to the scriptures and we are told by the very words of JESUS we shall know "THEM BY THEIR FRUITS", that is who are following God and who are not following God.

It is God's Word that gives righteous judgement that we are to believe and follow. It is not beleiving and following God's Word that is sin *ROMANS 14:23; 1 JOHN 3:4; HEBREWS 10:26-31. We are not sinning by believing and following God's Word and sharing it. We are sinning by not believing and following God's Word as shown through the scriptures. It is God's Word that we accept or reject that is our judge and it is God's Word that will be our judge come judgement day according to the scriptures (see JOHN 12:46-47; JOHN 7:24; 1 JOHN 2:3-4)

I have not provided my own words here dear GT. I have only provided Gods' Word which are not my words but God's Word that define what is righteous and what is not righteous. If you feel convicted by the scriptures shared, should you not count it a blessing and receive God's correction as His Spirit is talking with you (please read JOHN 16:8-9) as they are God's Words not mine I share with you dear GT.

There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgement day. God's sheep hear His voice and follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow. Let's us examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith or not and seek to have a closer walk with JESUS. Sin will keep us away from God and his salvation as God's salvation is only by believing and following God's Word...

You put a day above the Lord.

Nonsense. The Sabbath is God's 4th commandment that he commands all those who believe and follow his Word to keep as a holy day of rest. I believe and follow God's Word because I love God. Do you love JESUS dear GT?

Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath.

Correct *MARK 2:27-28. JESUS is the creator of heaven and earth and the one who "BLESSED" the "SEVENTH DAY" and set it apart from all the other days of the week and made it a "HOLY DAY OR REST" and commands His poeple in the 4th commandment of the 10 commandments *EXODUS 20:8-11 to keep this day as a memorial of God as the creator of heaven and earth. God's 10 Commandments define what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 and if we break it just like anyone of God's 10 Commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. All those who continue in known unrepentant sin when they have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and reject it in order to continue in sin (breaking God's law - 1 JOHN 3:4) will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing dispite to the Spirit of Grace (please read HEBREWS 10:26-27).

A day not observed as any more special than another doesn’t condemn.

Indeed. However it is God that "BLESSED" the "SEVENTH DAY" and set it apart from all the other days of the week and made it a "HOLY DAY OR REST WHERE NO WORK IS TO BE DONE" and commands His poeple in the 4TH COMMANDMENT of the 10 COMMANDMENTS *EXODUS 20:8-11 to keep this day as a memorial of God as the creator of heaven and earth.

However, you condemn according to a day observed.

NO! It is the words of God we reject that condemn. Sin is defined as the transgression of God's law and not believing Gods' Word *1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 14:23. God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 and if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments according to God's Word (righteous judgement) we stand guilty and condemned before God in sin *JAMES 2:10-11. All those who continue in known unrepentant sin when they have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and reject it in order to continue in sin (breaking God's law - 1 JOHN 3:4) will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing dispite to the Spirit of Grace (please read HEBREWS 10:26-27).

Jesus even allowed a man to break the Sabbath of no work when the man gathered his bed and carried it. It does NOT harm anyone to do work on the Sabbath.

Nonsense. Jesus taught is was lawful to do good on the Sabbath. Nowhere did Jesus ever teach people to go out and do their own work and break the Sabbath. In the days of Jesus the religious teachers of the day had placed so many man made traditions around Sabbath keeping that it had become a burden to the people. It was though in their eyes MANKIND was made for the Sabbath. It was so bad in fact that these religious teachers were constantly looking for ways to accuse Jesus of breaking the Sabbath (Matt hew12:1-2; 10; Mark 3:2'; Luke 6:1-2).

Jesus rebuked these religious teachers by saying that the Sabbath was made for MAN and NOT MAN for the SABBATH (Mark 2:27 and that he was the CREATOR or LORD of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28) and it was LAWFUL to do GOOD on the SABBATH (Matthew 12:12)

Jesus did God's WORK on the Sabbath and so should we everyday but God's WORK is not the work we are commanded NOT to do on God's Sabbath for it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath.

Have you not read what David did, when he was hungry, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the showbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them who were with him, but only for the priests?

Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT

EXODUS 20:8-11
8, Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
9, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10, But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

Doing GOD'S WORK is NOT what the 4th Commandment is talking about please read it.

God's 4th Commandments says we are NOT to do OUR OWN WORK. Yep NO secular business or paid work, no unnecessary domestic work, no buying and selling, shopping. This can be done on the other days of the week. God has made the SEVENTH DAY a HOLY DAY and we are to REST in HIM by FAITH in the LORD of the SABBATH. This is the 4th Commandment and one of the God's 10.

Our rest is in Christ.

Indeed. Jesus however is not a Sabbath which is defined in the scriptures as God's 4th commandment and the "SEVENTH DAY" of the week..

EXODUS 20:10 0, But THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the Lord your God...

God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 and if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments according to God's Word (righteous judgement) we stand guilty and condemned before God in sin *JAMES 2:10-11. All those who continue in known unrepentant sin when they have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and reject it in order to continue in sin (breaking God's law - 1 JOHN 3:4) will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing dispite to the Spirit of Grace (please read HEBREWS 10:26-27).

God's sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow. Those who do not hear do not follow.

 

[3rdAngel]

Special days were observed by the Jews. Paul doesn’t speak about special days and say, “Oh wait, except for the 7th day”.

The Sabbath or 7th day is nowhere mentioned in ROMANS 14 or anywhere in the scriptures in relation to it being abolished. ROMANS 14 does not talk about God's 4th commandment anywhere and the topic and subject matter is on eating and not eating (fasting eating vegetables) ON days that men esteem over other days and people judging them for this. Soo nope! No mention of God's 4th commandment here. Your trying to read into the scriptures and change the content, context and subject matter by cherry picking scripture out of context and trying to read into it what the scriptures do not say or teach. All your doing here is repeating yourself again without addressing the scriptures and posts shared with you that show why your in error.

You lack a lot when it comes to understanding. The reason why I bring up Galatians is because Paul rebukes the Galatians for observing special days. The Jews had got a hold of the Gentile Christian Galatians and talked them into doing the things the Jews did according to Moses and that is---the OBSERVANCE OF SPECIAL DAYS INCLUDING THE 7th DAY CALLED THE SABBATH---AND CIRCUMCISION. The Jews talked them into observing special days and to get circumcised.

There is no mention whatsoever anywhere in Galatians 4 of Paul referring to God's 4th commandment. Your mixing up ceremonial "shadow laws" with God's eternal moral laws (10 commandments) that give us the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS in the new covenant *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. Your interpretation does not make any sense and is not biblical as JESUS, the apostles and PAUL all kept God's 4th commandment according to the scriptures. Your following man made teachings and traditions handed down by the Roman Catholic Church that has led many to break the commandments of God. Yet you will close your eyes and ears to the scriptures when God's wants to share his truth to you fulfilling the words of JESUS, PAUL and ISAIAH in ISAIAH 6:9-10. Gods Word can be a blessing or a curse. It is a blessing to all those who receive it and a curse to all those who reject it. The question we must all ask ourselves is what will we do? Will we choose to prayerfully search the scriptures or choose instead to have a proud and stubborn heart and reject God's Word in order to follow our tradtitions that brean the commandments of God?

Hope this helps.

 

[3rdAngel]

And OBSERVING SPECIAL DAYS IS WORTHLESS.

Galatians 4
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?[/U]
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

You see that? The Galatians were trying to observe the special days as was given by the law of Moses.

NONSENSE! We have gone through GALATIONS 4 verse by verse a number of times now. There is no mention about the 7th Day Sabbath in it anywhere. PAUL is talking to "Gentile believers" that were being inflenced to follow the ceremonial laws of circumcision and the annual feast days which were shadow laws pointing to Jesus (eg. passover and circumcision - a new heart by faith (see ROMANS 2:27-28). The references to days, months and years are to the annual ceremonial feast days and holy days which were all "shadow laws" of things to come (Jesus and God's work of salvation for mankind in the new covenant). As shown earlier it is impossible for this to include God's 4th commandment Sabbath which is one of God's 10 commandments to be a shadow of anything as it was a part of the FINISHED work of creation BEFORE SIN and before law.

A "SHADOW LAW" from the old covenant was only ever given as a part of God's plan of salvation "AFTER SIN" entered the world. All the Mosaic shadow laws given after SIN and the fall of mankind all point FORWARD to the promise of JESUS as our sacrifice for sin and his work on our behalf to save us from our sins. Think about it dear friend. If there was "NO SIN" when the Sabbath was made for mankind. How can there be any "SHADOW LAWS" when mankind HAD NOT SINNED and was in perfect harmony with God? No plan of salvation was REQUIRED (although already made) when there is NO SIN!

As shown above the SABBATH is a part of the FINISHED WORK of CREATION and points BACK to creation (REMEMBER) *EXODUS 20:8. It was given BEFORE SIN and BEFORE THE NEED FOR A PLAN OF SALVATION when mankind was in perfect harmony with God so it is therefore impossible for Gods' 4th commandment to be a "shadow of things to come" because it points BACK to the finished work of creation. This is where your whole premise falls over. There is not one scripture or mention in Galatians 4 referring to God's 4th commandment. Your interpretation makes no sense. JESUS and all the aposltes including PAUL all kept God's 4th commandment Sabbath according to God's 4th commandment. Your trying to twist the scriptures and read into the scriptures what the scriptures do not say and do not teach.

Hope this helps.

 

[3rdAngel]

[/U]And OBSERVING SPECIAL DAYS IS WORTHLESS and shows your faith is weak.

Romans 14
1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.

Indeed but your reference has nothing to do with God's 4th commandment. Your trying to read into scripture what the scriptures do not teach. The chapter of ROMANS 14 does not talk about God's 4th commandment anywhere and the topic and subject matter is on eating and not eating (fasting eating vegetables) ONdays that men esteem over other days and people judging them for this. Soo nope! No mention of God's 4th commandment here. Your trying to read into the scriptures and change the content, context and subject matter by cherry picking scripture out of context and trying to read into it what the scriptures do not say or teach. All your doing here is repeating yourself again without addressing the scriptures and posts shared with you that show why your in error.

Hope this is helpful dear friend

 

[3rdAngel]

See here, PAUL SAYS let NO MAN JUDGE YOU IN RESPECT TO A HOLY DAY.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Not ONLY THAT---PAUL CALLS OBSERVING SPECIAL DAYS THE RUDIMENTS OF THE WORLD---JUST LIKE HE DOES IN GALATIANS---BUT YOU KEEP SAYING IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE JEWS SPECAIL DAYS. Colossians 2:20 therefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Soo what is your point? Colossians 2:16-17 is in reference to the annual feast days and their ceremonial "shadow sabbaths" connected to these feasts and days of holy convocation that could fall on any day of the week. It is not a reference to Gods 4th commandment that is not a "shadow law". We no longer need to keep the ceremonial sabbaths in the feast days. This is not a reference to God's 4th commandment from the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. Read what your quoting from, where in Colossian 2:20 is it talking about God's 4th commandment? - It doesn't!


Hope this helps

 

[3rdAngel]

Luke 6:1
One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels. 2Some of the Pharisees asked, “Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?
3 Jesus answered them, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry?4 He entered the house of God, and taking the consecrated bread, he ate what is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.” 5 Then Jesus said to them, “The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.

Exodus 15
4 Then the LORD said to Moses, “I will rain down bread from heaven for you. The people are to go out each day and gather enough for that day. In this way I will test them and see whether they will follow my instructions. 5 On the sixth day they are to prepare what they bring in, and that is to be twice as much as they gather on the other days.
26 Six days you are to gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will not be any.”

27 Nevertheless, some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather it, but they found none.
28 Then the LORD said to Moses, “How long will you refuse to keep my commands and my instructions?
29] Bear in mind that the LORD has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyone is to stay where they are on the seventh day; no one is to go out.”


John 5:8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
John 5:10he Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God..

So from the scriptures, we can see that we can do good on the Sabbath ACCORDING TO THE LORD OF THE SABBATH, Jesus Christ.

If you have to go out and get food on the Sabbath, you can do it.

If you have to work that day, then ACCORDING TO JESUS THE LORD OF THE SABBATH you can.

Jesus says we can do good on the Sabbath.

Jesus says not to do evil on the Sabbath.

Luke 6:9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil?

Nonsense. Your twisting the scriptures again. In the days of Jesus the religious teachers of the day had placed so many man made traditions around Sabbath keeping that it had become a burden to the people. It was though in their eyes MANKIND was made for the Sabbath. It was so bad in fact that these religious teachers were constantly looking for ways to accuse Jesus of breaking the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-2; 10; Mark 3:2'; Luke 6:1-2).

Jesus rebuked these religious teachers by saying that the Sabbath was made for MAN and NOT MAN for the SABBATH (Mark 2:27 and that he was the CREATOR or LORD of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28) and it was LAWFUL to do GOOD on the SABBATH (Matt 12:12)

Jesus did God's WORK on the Sabbath and so should we everyday but God's WORK is not the work we are commanded NOT to do on God's Sabbath for it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath.

Have you not read what David did, when he was hungry, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the showbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them who were with him, but only for the priests?

Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

Doing GOD'S WORK is NOT what the 4th Commandment is talking about please read it.

God's 4th Commandments says we are NOT to do OUR OWN WORK. Yep NO secular business or paid work, no unnecessary domestic work, no buying and selling, shopping. This can be done on the other days of the week. God has made the SEVENTH DAY a HOLY DAY and we are to REST in HIM by FAITH in the LORD of the SABBATH. This is the 4th Commandment and one of the God's 10.

.......................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)
Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27). Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9). There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day. Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God? In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Hope this helps

 

[3rdAngel]

I don’t tire talking about God’s Truth. It is from your imagination that I am tired. Look how many posts it says I have made since joining the group almost eight years ago---and about 40,000 posts were taken off when the site had a rebooting of sorts.

I did not mean anything with disrespect. What you were posting was simply repetition that did not address any of the content and scriptures you were quoting from or did not even seem to make sense. I thought you may have been simply tired and may have needed some rest. Quantity of posts is not evidence of truth. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men which you seem to wish to support and follow. God's Word does not teach us to break anyone of his 10 commandments.

You are lying about what I said. You are twisting it to look like something was said that wasn’t.

Goodness dear GT, how can I lie when I simply quoted you saying what you claimed you did not say? It seems you are the one lying not me dear friend. Shame on you.

God did not command humans not to work that day until He gave the law to Moses.

Nope. Where is the scripture. You have none so don't pretend God commanded humans to work on the Sabbath until he gave the law to Moses. God gave the Sabbath to mankind at creation *GENESIS 2:1-3; MARK 2:27.

It doesn’t harm your neighbor if you do work and get some food on the Sabbath. Jesus didn’t harm anyone when he and his disciples gathered food on the Sabbath. Jesus didn’t harm the man he told to get up and make your bed and carry it. Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath and Jesus is the one who fulfilled the old law and gave us the new law.

God's 4th commandment is not a law about our neighbore it is a law of our duty of love to God. Love is the fulfilling of God's law and sum up our duty of love to God and man *MATTHEW 22:36-40; ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12.

Besides it not being a sin to work and prepare your food on the Sabbath, Jesus made other changes to the old law.

Yes it is. That is why there is a "preparation day" in the bible which is the day to prepare for the Sabbath (see EXODUS 16; MARK 15:42 etc)

Hope this helps.

 

[3rdAngel]

You say you repented of your sins to get saved, yet you don't obey God while you preach falseness here by saying our obedience to Jesus has nothing to do with our getting saved.

Nonsense. I do not preach falseness dear friend. That is your domain. I have only share Gods' Word with you. God's Word is not my words but God's Word and it seems you do not believe them. I have never said obedience to God's Word is not a requirement for salvation. I have only ever posted that we are ONLY saved by GRACE through FAITH and NOT of ourselves it is a GIFT of GOD and NOT of WORKS lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9). If our FAITH does not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE then we are still in our SINS because we reject the GIFT of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing and do dispite to the Spirit of God's grace (James 2:18; 20; 26; James 2:8-12; Hebrews 10:26-31). If your tree dear friend has no FRUIT then it will be cast down and thrown into the fire (Matthew 7:12-23; Hebrews 10:26-27).

Hope this helps

 

[3rdAngel]

I believe it is a feature you receive after a certain number of posts, if I remember correctly.

Hi Lon nice to meet you and thanks very much for your tip. Not sure why not having an edit should be not given from the start though. Would make life easier. Thanks for the advice :wave2:

 

[God's Truth]

Yep did not think you would find anything you accused me of saying because I never said any such thing.

Repeat.

You saying things 100 times does not make the scriptures disappear. Your just repeating yourself gain.

That’s a repeat.

As posted earlier JESUS says he made the Sabbath for mankind. Adam and Eve were created on the 6th day *GENESIS 1:26-31 and the Sabbath was made for mankind on the 7th day. Who do you think the Sabbath was given to at creation? Your confused and denying the very word of God.

Repeat.

There was no laws when the Sabbath was made because there was no sin. This is the whole reason your premise that God's 4th commandment is a shadow law is in error as there was no sin when JESUS says that the Sabbath was made for all mankind. Man did not need a law to keep it as they were in perfect harmony with God to keep it.

Repeat.

Hope this is helpful

A really creepy repeat.

 

[God's Truth]

Your response....


No one ever said God did not make a plan of salvation before sin. This is something your trying to say that no one has ever said as a distraction to what is actually being said. Try reading the post you are quoting from more carefully and slowly. As it shows your whole premise that God's 4th commandment is a "shadow law" to be in error. As shown more than once now you keep avoiding this question and have not addressed it. A "SHADOW LAW" from the old covenant was only ever given as a part of God's plan of salvation "AFTER" the fall of mankind (SIN) and points FORWARD to the promise of JESUS as our sacrifice for sin and his work on our behalf to save us from our sins. If there was "NO SIN" when the Sabbath was made for mankind. How can there be any "SHADOW LAWS" when mankind HAD NOT SINNED and was in perfect harmony with God? No plan of salvation is REQUIRED (although already made) when there is NO SIN! Do you understand now?

As shown above the SABBATH is a part of the FINISHED WORK of CREATION and points BACK to creation (REMEMBER) *EXODUS 20:8. It was given BEFORE SIN and BEFORE THE NEED FOR A PLAN OF SALVATION when mankind was in perfect harmony with God so it is therefore impossible for Gods' 4th commandment to be a "shadow of things to come" because it points BACK to the finished work of creation. You are incorrect. The Sabbath was made and given to mankind in creation when God "BLESSED" that "SEVENTH DAY and make it a HOLY DAY of all mankind *GENESIS 2:1-3; MARK 2:27.

Repeat.

 

[God's Truth]

The Sabbath or 7th day is nowhere mentioned in ROMANS 14 or anywhere in the scriptures in relation to it being abolished. ROMANS 14 does not talk about God's 4th commandment anywhere and the topic and subject matter is on eating and not eating (fasting eating vegetables) ON days that men esteem over other days and people judging them for this. Soo nope! No mention of God's 4th commandment here. Your trying to read into the scriptures and change the content, context and subject matter by cherry picking scripture out of context and trying to read into it what the scriptures do not say or teach. All your doing here is repeating yourself again without addressing the scriptures and posts shared with you that show why your in error.

Repeat.

There is no mention whatsoever anywhere in Galatians 4 of Paul referring to God's 4th commandment. Your mixing up ceremonial "shadow laws" with God's eternal moral laws (10 commandments) that give us the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS in the new covenant *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. Your interpretation does not make any sense and is not biblical as JESUS, the apostles and PAUL all kept God's 4th commandment according to the scriptures. Your following man made teachings and traditions handed down by the Roman Catholic Church that has led many to break the commandments of God. Yet you will close your eyes and ears to the scriptures when God's wants to share his truth to you fulfilling the words of JESUS, PAUL and ISAIAH in ISAIAH 6:9-10. Gods Word can be a blessing or a curse. It is a blessing to all those who receive it and a curse to all those who reject it. The question we must all ask ourselves is what will we do? Will we choose to prayerfully search the scriptures or choose instead to have a proud and stubborn heart and reject God's Word in order to follow our tradtitions that brean the commandments of God?

Repeat

Hope this helps.

The really creepy repeat.

 

[God's Truth]

NONSENSE! We have gone through GALATIONS 4 verse by verse a number of times now. There is no mention about the 7th Day Sabbath in it anywhere. PAUL is talking to "Gentile believers" that were being inflenced to follow the ceremonial laws of circumcision and the annual feast days which were shadow laws pointing to Jesus (eg. passover and circumcision - a new heart by faith (see ROMANS 2:27-28). The references to days, months and years are to the annual ceremonial feast days and holy days which were all "shadow laws" of things to come (Jesus and God's work of salvation for mankind in the new covenant). As shown earlier it is impossible for this to include God's 4th commandment Sabbath which is one of God's 10 commandments to be a shadow of anything as it was a part of the FINISHED work of creation BEFORE SIN and before law.

A "SHADOW LAW" from the old covenant was only ever given as a part of God's plan of salvation "AFTER SIN" entered the world. All the Mosaic shadow laws given after SIN and the fall of mankind all point FORWARD to the promise of JESUS as our sacrifice for sin and his work on our behalf to save us from our sins. Think about it dear friend. If there was "NO SIN" when the Sabbath was made for mankind. How can there be any "SHADOW LAWS" when mankind HAD NOT SINNED and was in perfect harmony with God? No plan of salvation was REQUIRED (although already made) when there is NO SIN!

As shown above the SABBATH is a part of the FINISHED WORK of CREATION and points BACK to creation (REMEMBER) *EXODUS 20:8. It was given BEFORE SIN and BEFORE THE NEED FOR A PLAN OF SALVATION when mankind was in perfect harmony with God so it is therefore impossible for Gods' 4th commandment to be a "shadow of things to come" because it points BACK to the finished work of creation. This is where your whole premise falls over. There is not one scripture or mention in Galatians 4 referring to God's 4th commandment. Your interpretation makes no sense. JESUS and all the aposltes including PAUL all kept God's 4th commandment Sabbath according to God's 4th commandment. Your trying to twist the scriptures and read into the scriptures what the scriptures do not say and do not teach.

Repeat.

Hope this helps.

Yikes, the really creepy repeat.