Can Self-Identification Be Incorrect?

[drbrumley]

The Next “Gender Identity” Absurdity?
Laurence M. Vance

As if boys in girls’ restrooms and locker rooms weren’t bad enough, next we will have male coaches who “identify” as female and want to be a girls’ PE coach. Or perhaps boys who “identify” as girls and want to play on the girls’ softball team? Or perhaps both? Hey, can an NBA player “identify” as a woman and play in the WNBA? Surely this is what is coming.

 

[shagster01]

I'm not a "proponent" for anything. I'm just saying that they exist.

I don't personally care what bathroom they choose to use.

PureX doesn't care. Therefore nobody should.

Those little signs on the doors are only suggestions, anyway, they are not "rules".

Why would somebody suggest what bathroom to use?


It comes back to liberal theory that a very small portion of gender confused people were uncomfortable, so to make it fair we must make laws that make a larger part of the population uncomfortable too.

 

[shagster01]

The Next “Gender Identity” Absurdity?
Laurence M. Vance

As if boys in girls’ restrooms and locker rooms weren’t bad enough, next we will have male coaches who “identify” as female and want to be a girls’ PE coach. Or perhaps boys who “identify” as girls and want to play on the girls’ softball team? Or perhaps both? Hey, can an NBA player “identify” as a woman and play in the WNBA? Surely this is what is coming.

If people like PureX think you get to make up your gender in your mind and change it when it suits you, am wondering why he believes in gender at all.

 

[PureX]

PureX doesn't care. Therefore nobody should.

Why would somebody suggest what bathroom to use?

It comes back to liberal theory that a very small portion of gender confused people were uncomfortable, so to make it fair we must make laws that make a larger part of the population uncomfortable too.

Yes, it's such a hellish thing; these people thinking things and doing things that you don't approve of, walking around, and using public toilets, just like they were regular people!

 

[annabenedetti]

I think they just want to look as much like the gender they identify with as the possibly can

I think that's much more likely the case.

 

[glassjester]

I think that's much more likely the case.

Generally, would a man pretending to be a woman like for others to know that he is transgender, just by looking at him? Or would he prefer for others to believe he's been female his whole life?

 

[annabenedetti]

Generally, would a man pretending to be a woman like for others to know that he is transgender, just by looking at him? Or would he prefer for others to believe he's been female his whole life?

Going back to your original comment, I think it's wrong to presume the worst when you simply don't know. You said "There seems to be, in the very idea of transgenderism, an inherent desire to deceive."

I'm asking how you know that, rather than considering that perhaps they just want to be on the outside the way they've always felt on the inside? That they're seeking their authentic self - it's not some kind of game to see who they can deceive?

 

[jgarden]

Can Self-Identification Be Incorrect?

Is the OP suggesting that everyone going to a public washroom should now be strip-searched by a representative from the state to ensure that they all possess the appropriate private parts.

Public washrooms assume a degree of trust and if one suspects that they are being inundated by the transexual hordes, lock the door on the stall.

 

[glassjester]

Going back to your original comment, I think it's wrong to presume the worst when you simply don't know. You said "There seems to be, in the very idea of transgenderism, an inherent desire to deceive."

I'm asking how you know that, rather than considering that perhaps they just want to be on the outside the way they've always felt on the inside? That they're seeking their authentic self - it's not some kind of game to see who they can deceive?

It's probably both.

They want to appear outwardly, what they believe themselves to be, inwardly.
And that's deceptive.

Isn't it?

 

[PureX]

It's probably both.

They want to appear outwardly, what they believe themselves to be, inwardly.
And that's deceptive.

Isn't it?

No.

It's being honest with oneself, and with others about oneself.

I recently met a young man at a local college who is tall, athletically built, and has a full beard. Yet every day he wears a different 'costume' involving women's wigs, dresses, stockings and high-heeled shoes or boots. I'm not sure, but I believe he is bisexual, but not 'transgender'.

I was a bit stunned when I first encountered him in a class setting because he is so unusual and physically imposing. Yet he was clearly NOT attempting to 'deceive' or annoy anyone and the other students got along well with him. I think he just genuinely likes wearing these feminine costumes. Though I have no idea why.

My impression from talking with him a bit is that he is honest, intelligent, creative, and extremely courageous. I found nothing about him threatening or anti-social. Yet I am sure that he must face an onslaught of insults and bad behavior from other people, who know nothing about him, every day of his life.

 

[annabenedetti]

It's probably both.

They want to appear outwardly, what they believe themselves to be, inwardly.
And that's deceptive.

Isn't it?

No, I don't think it is. It seems to me that you're presuming intent.

 

[glassjester]

No, I don't think it is. It seems to me that you're presuming intent.

No.

It's being honest with oneself, and with others about oneself.

Ok.

Do you think a transgender person should inform potential romantic partners of their transgenderism?

In other words, would it be wrong to withhold that information?

 

[Missy-E]

Im fortunate enough to know a whole slew of transgendered and transexuals too (many of whom are fed up to their eyeballs with bathroom questions lol) and i have to say, despite all their varying personalities, there are similarities...one being the willingness to overcome everyday ridicule and stereotypes to just be who they truly feel they are inside. Fyi, another similarity that many share is the distaste of "straight, people in normal relationships" DECEIVING their straight partner by trying to hook up with transpeople behind their partners' backs.

Sent from my SM-S765C using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[PureX]

Ok.

Do you think a transgender person should inform potential romantic partners of their transgenderism?

In other words, would it be wrong to withhold that information?

At some point.

As Missy-E points out, there's plenty of deception going on among all humans when it comes to "romance".

 

[kmoney]

At some point.

At what point?

 

[ok doser]

sometime before the wedding night

 

[patrick jane]

Men and women that strive to look like the other sex are mentally disturbed and are crying out for help. They are crying out for attention

 

[PureX]

At what point?

When it's appropriate, and/or necessary. There are no hard rules or lines of demarkation, here.

"Deception" is a somewhat relative condition. A lot of people WANT to be deceived. A lot of people will deceive themselves and then blame it on another when the self-deception fails. A lot of people say they don't care and then do care when it comes down to it.

 

[kmoney]

When it's appropriate, and/or necessary. There are no hard rules or lines of demarkation, here.

When would you want to know? When would you let someone know?

"Deception" is a somewhat relative condition. A lot of people WANT to be deceived. A lot of people will deceive themselves and then blame it on another when the self-deception fails. A lot of people say they don't care and then do care when it comes down to it.

Do you think anyone wants to be deceived on this point?

 

[PureX]

When would you want to know? When would you let someone know?

It'a not an issue for me. It's not an issue for almost anyone. Clearly at some point the facts will become known. It's up to each individual when that should or will occur. And it's likely that someone might be disappointed or offended when it does. But when it comes to sexual relationships, people are always being disappointed and offended by something or other. That's just the nature of the risk of intimacy.

Do you think anyone wants to be deceived on this point?

Yes, I do think there are people who WANT to be deceived in this area, because they are confused and in denial of their own sexual desires. Probably more of them than there are transgenders to deceive them.