brother Willi
New member
predates???
an older known record maybe
can anyone please give me proof that Jesus Christ is real?
- Thread starter c.moore
- Start date
predates???
an older known record maybe
One Eyed Jack
New member
Oh yeah. In kindergarten.
You're guessing right. :up:
One Eyed Jack
New member
What about it?
brother Willi
New member
YEP, just as you are free to believe as you choose to.
if the original of any document is lost to time, does that mean it never existed?
brother Willi
New member
your statement is correct, but it assumes to much
brother Willi
New member
fair enough.
if an older copy of the flood is found, then what?
One Eyed Jack
New member
Not necessarily.
ButcherABC
New member
That does run against accepted practices that a copy of a document closer to the event is more likely to be accurate... or at least that's what Christians like to tell me.
ButcherABC
New member
You do realize that Chinese characters have changed significantly over time. In fact, the characters from the time of when the flood would have happened look significantly different from the characters of today, and the above "analysis" is no longer valid.
Aimiel
Well-known member
That's a lie. I guess that makes you a liar.
Because it seems to be a habit with you.
Well, friend, if that spirit leads you contrary to The Word of God, then it's definitely not The Holy Spirit.
Is that what you believe the philosophy of someone who follows the leading and direction of The Holy Spirit is doing, following their 'feelings'? You have a misconception. Yes, He does impart feelings, such as He did to David, when He called him 'a man after God's Own Heart. He does cause a feeling of euphoria, to those whose hearts are right towards Him, but often brings conviction to those whose hearts are not. Are you feeling That Conviction? It would seem that you are, since you have jumped to the defensive, and seem to be trying to make yourself out to be 'holier-than-thou.' That, also, it would seem, is a habit with you. I hope that you can recover from that, as soon as you repent of it.
They both were written after the actual event.
There are comic books from 60 years ago with stories about Captain America fighting Hitler. And there are much more recent accounts about WWII and Hitler that claim to be historical.
Would it be reasonable to conclude that the newer historical accounts are based on the older comic books? Should we conclude that WWII never took place and Hitler never existed because of the fictitious stories loosely based on them?
brother Willi
New member
can you tell me, as you say "the above "analysis" is no longer valid"
when was it "valid"
tellin me it aint so today, dont really mean much.
was it "valid" 2,500 B.C. as is claimed?
if so, whats your point?
brother Willi
New member
and for those who didnt hit thisLINK
Flood Legends
Several years ago a skeptic posed the following question to me:
"If there really was a worldwide flood, then why aren't there any flood legends?"
The question that needs to be answered is not: "where are all of the flood legends," but rather: "why hasn't the public been informed"? I say this because there are, in fact, many references from a broad spectrum of ancient civilizations that testify to a Worldwide Flood. And while this doesn't "prove" that there was a worldwide flood, it does add weight to the Biblical account in Genesis of such an event. These extra-Biblical accounts tell of a great flood that wiped out almost all life on the earth. For example, the Cree and Tolec Indians, ancient Persia, Greece, India, China, Mesopotamia, and Hawaii are just a few such cultures. One source says there are 270 such legends; another says 500. Many of these have the following three things in common:
1. The flood destroyed nearly all animal life on the earth,
2. A vessel of safety was provided.
3. Animals and people were on board.
For those who are interested, the following references should be of help. Along with This Link regarding the Historical accuracy of the Bible.
1. The Illustrated Origins Answer Book, by Paul S. Taylor, 4th edition, pp. 112-115. This book contains
information on a broad range of creation-evolution topics--including at least 100 geophysical and astro-
nomical clocks which yield young ages for the earth; it is well referenced and can be purchased for about
$8. It is available from : Answers In Genesis, 1-800-350-3232; or Master Books, 1-800-999-3777.
2. Motif-index of folk literature, by Stith Thompson, 1989 (Reprint of the 1955 ed.), Indiana University
Press, Bloomington, Indiana; this in turn, gives reference to 122 legends of the earth being destroyed by
a flood.
3. The Gilgamesh Epic and Old Testament parallels, by A. Heidel, 2nd ed., 1949, University of Chicago Press,
pp. 80-93, 236, 249. This account was found by archeologists working in Iraq. It was written on clay
tablets called cuneiform from Ancient Babylon. See also This Link.
4. Folk-lore in the Old Testament, J. B. Frazer, 3 vols., Macmillan, London, 1918, pp. 66-67, 70.
5. Aztecs of Mexico: origin, rise and fall of the Aztec nation, G.C Vaillant, 1962, Revised ed., Doubleday,
Garden City, New York, p.56.
6. The Deluge Story in Stone, B. C. Nelson, 1968, 2nd ed., Bethany Fellowship, Minneapolis, Minnesota, pp.
165-176.
7. "Deluge," F. H. Woods, in J. Hastings (ed) , Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics, Vol. 4, pp. 445-457,
Charles Scribner's Sons, New York.
8. The Biblical Flood and the Ice Epoch, A study in scientific history, by D.W. Patten, Pacific Meridian
Publishing Co., Seattle, WA, 1967, 2nd ed., pp.164-192.
9. "Recent discoveries in Bible lands," Supplement in "Youngs Analytical Concordance to the Bible, p.36,
1936, 1955, Funk & Wagnall's, New York.
10. "A comparison of narrative elements in ancient Mesopotamian creation-flood stories with Genesis 1-9,"
See Origins, 11: pp. 9-29; available from Loma Linda University; 1- 909-824-4548.
11. The flood reconsidered, F. A. Filby, 1970, Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, Michigan, pp.
28-30.
12. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, H. F. Vos, 1982, Vol. 2, pp.319-321, Wm. B. Eerdmans
Publishing Co., Grand Rapids, Michigan.
13. Myth Legend and Custom in the Old Testament, T. H. Gaster, 1969, Harper & Row, New York, pp.
83-131; for refs. see pp. 353-359. Note: This Book lists several hundred additional reference sources
of flood legends in a nation by nation format.
14. Unsolved Mysteries of the Past, Reader's Digest Assoc. Inc.1991, pp.78-81.
15. National Geographic, Dec. 1994; see the large (separate) map which was included with this issue; under the
section "Indians and the Fur Trade" reference is given to an ancient Cree (Indian) creation/flood story.
16. Dinosaurs by Design, by Dr. Duane T. Gish, Institute of Creation Research; p. 75 lists three different flood
stories: Hawaiian, Chinese, and Tolec Indian. 1-800-628-7640.
Copyright, 1999, 2000, 2004 Randy S. Berg; No part of this paper may be reproduced, used, or sold for profit without
the express written consent of the author. Copies may be distributed freely for educational purposes only.
Home Upright Fossil Tree Evidence Flood Evidences
Flood Legends
Several years ago a skeptic posed the following question to me:
"If there really was a worldwide flood, then why aren't there any flood legends?"
The question that needs to be answered is not: "where are all of the flood legends," but rather: "why hasn't the public been informed"? I say this because there are, in fact, many references from a broad spectrum of ancient civilizations that testify to a Worldwide Flood. And while this doesn't "prove" that there was a worldwide flood, it does add weight to the Biblical account in Genesis of such an event. These extra-Biblical accounts tell of a great flood that wiped out almost all life on the earth. For example, the Cree and Tolec Indians, ancient Persia, Greece, India, China, Mesopotamia, and Hawaii are just a few such cultures. One source says there are 270 such legends; another says 500. Many of these have the following three things in common:
1. The flood destroyed nearly all animal life on the earth,
2. A vessel of safety was provided.
3. Animals and people were on board.
For those who are interested, the following references should be of help. Along with This Link regarding the Historical accuracy of the Bible.
1. The Illustrated Origins Answer Book, by Paul S. Taylor, 4th edition, pp. 112-115. This book contains
information on a broad range of creation-evolution topics--including at least 100 geophysical and astro-
nomical clocks which yield young ages for the earth; it is well referenced and can be purchased for about
$8. It is available from : Answers In Genesis, 1-800-350-3232; or Master Books, 1-800-999-3777.
2. Motif-index of folk literature, by Stith Thompson, 1989 (Reprint of the 1955 ed.), Indiana University
Press, Bloomington, Indiana; this in turn, gives reference to 122 legends of the earth being destroyed by
a flood.
3. The Gilgamesh Epic and Old Testament parallels, by A. Heidel, 2nd ed., 1949, University of Chicago Press,
pp. 80-93, 236, 249. This account was found by archeologists working in Iraq. It was written on clay
tablets called cuneiform from Ancient Babylon. See also This Link.
4. Folk-lore in the Old Testament, J. B. Frazer, 3 vols., Macmillan, London, 1918, pp. 66-67, 70.
5. Aztecs of Mexico: origin, rise and fall of the Aztec nation, G.C Vaillant, 1962, Revised ed., Doubleday,
Garden City, New York, p.56.
6. The Deluge Story in Stone, B. C. Nelson, 1968, 2nd ed., Bethany Fellowship, Minneapolis, Minnesota, pp.
165-176.
7. "Deluge," F. H. Woods, in J. Hastings (ed) , Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics, Vol. 4, pp. 445-457,
Charles Scribner's Sons, New York.
8. The Biblical Flood and the Ice Epoch, A study in scientific history, by D.W. Patten, Pacific Meridian
Publishing Co., Seattle, WA, 1967, 2nd ed., pp.164-192.
9. "Recent discoveries in Bible lands," Supplement in "Youngs Analytical Concordance to the Bible, p.36,
1936, 1955, Funk & Wagnall's, New York.
10. "A comparison of narrative elements in ancient Mesopotamian creation-flood stories with Genesis 1-9,"
See Origins, 11: pp. 9-29; available from Loma Linda University; 1- 909-824-4548.
11. The flood reconsidered, F. A. Filby, 1970, Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, Michigan, pp.
28-30.
12. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, H. F. Vos, 1982, Vol. 2, pp.319-321, Wm. B. Eerdmans
Publishing Co., Grand Rapids, Michigan.
13. Myth Legend and Custom in the Old Testament, T. H. Gaster, 1969, Harper & Row, New York, pp.
83-131; for refs. see pp. 353-359. Note: This Book lists several hundred additional reference sources
of flood legends in a nation by nation format.
14. Unsolved Mysteries of the Past, Reader's Digest Assoc. Inc.1991, pp.78-81.
15. National Geographic, Dec. 1994; see the large (separate) map which was included with this issue; under the
section "Indians and the Fur Trade" reference is given to an ancient Cree (Indian) creation/flood story.
16. Dinosaurs by Design, by Dr. Duane T. Gish, Institute of Creation Research; p. 75 lists three different flood
stories: Hawaiian, Chinese, and Tolec Indian. 1-800-628-7640.
Copyright, 1999, 2000, 2004 Randy S. Berg; No part of this paper may be reproduced, used, or sold for profit without
the express written consent of the author. Copies may be distributed freely for educational purposes only.
Home Upright Fossil Tree Evidence Flood Evidences