Can Anyone Explain 'Why gay marriage?'

[Nang]

Why are you even here on this?

But to answer that -- repent means "change of mind." If she's reprobate (as Calvinism defines it) she can't. If she's elect (as Calvinism misdefines it) she doesn't need to. It's that simple.

I swear, if I were a truly committed Calvinist/fatalist, I wouldn't waste one second of time on TOL because NOTHING I OR ANYONE COULD SAY WOULD MAKE A DAMN BIT OF DIFFERENCE FOR ANYONE.

Such an attitude is the practice of fatalism . . .

And Fatalism is only a thinking (philosophy) of fallen man.

 

[Arthur Brain]

If Christian prayer is not one of God's means, why does he have me praying for them?

Because it makes no difference. They're either damned under your theology or they aren't, and that was decided before you or they were even born...

 

[Nang]

Because it makes no difference. They're either damned under your theology or they aren't, and that was decided before you or they were even born...

You are being as fatalistic as Musty.

Since you do not trust in God, you do not believe in prayer . . but I do.

 

[musterion]

Why not?

Because the so-called Elect are bound to be saved no matter what anyone does, and the so-called Reprobates are doomed to be lost no matter what anyone does. Every human being ever born was born into either one bucket or the other, and no one moves from one bucket to the other. That's the essence of fatalism.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Such an attitude is the practice of fatalism . . .

And Fatalism is only a thinking (philosophy) of fallen man.

Well what exactly is your belief if not a brand of fatalism? If you truly believe that your prayers could make a difference then why don't you pray for all people, past, present and future? Then, why would you if part of your core belief is that God only chose a remnant of life to be reconciled? Your prayers are meaningless. If my nieces are 'hellbound' or if they're 'elect' then your 'intercessions' haven't had any say in it, just like the fate of my best friends kids who I'm babysitting for right now.

It's insidious.

 

[Nang]

Ah Calvinism, an eternal and damnable heresy making God a monster and humans nothing more than robots.,

Bah . . .

 

[musterion]

One way you're damned if you're not already elected and the other you're damned if you don't believe -

Assume for a moment you believe in a loving God who does want to save people from sin. What's the third alternative? (1) Elect who will be saved, which automatically chooses who won't be saved, (2) make it a free will choice, or (3)... ?

 

[Nang]

Because the so-called Elect are bound to be saved no matter what anyone does, and the so-called Reprobates are doomed to be lost no matter what anyone does. Every human being ever born was born into either one bucket or the other, and no one moves from one bucket to the other. That's the essence of fatalism.

Christian faith is not "fatalism."

Hebrews 11:1

 

[Arthur Brain]

You are being as fatalistic as Musty.

Since you do not trust in God, you do not believe in prayer . . but I do.

No, fatalism is an inescapable part of your belief, else everyone can be reached and that's not part of your doctrine. If my nieces are 'reprobate' then what good are your prayers going to do?

 

[Right Divider]

Well, to be fair, that would align more with universal salvation than either your position or Nang's. If God is the saviour of all men then that blows Calvinism out of the water and it also does away with the notion that God is only the saviour of those who believe.

No, it does not.

Scripture supports BOTH the position that Christ died for ALL and that YET all are NOT saved because they do not believe.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Assume for a moment you believe in a loving God who does want to save people from sin. What's the third alternative? (1) Elect who will be saved, which automatically chooses who won't be saved, (2) make it a free will choice, or (3)... ?

Reconcile everyone in time? Or was Thomas damned for his doubt?

 

[Nang]

No, fatalism is an inescapable part of your belief, else everyone can be reached and that's not part of your doctrine. If my nieces are 'reprobate' then what good are your prayers going to do?

Your thinking demands that I have knowledge of who will be saved and who will not . . but I do not know the fate of others, so when led to intercede on behalf of some, I do so in HOPE that it is the leading of God.

I believe in the priesthood of believers . . . I Peter 2:5,9

 

[Arthur Brain]

No, it does not.

Scripture supports BOTH the position that Christ died for ALL and that YET all are NOT saved because they do not believe.

Well in that case God is only the saviour of believers, not especially...

 

[Arthur Brain]

Your thinking demands that I have knowledge of who will be saved and who will not . . but I do not know the fate of others, so when led to intercede on behalf of some, I do so in HOPE that it is the leading of God.

I believe in the priesthood of believers . . . I Peter 2:5,9

No, it doesn't, nobody is saying that you know who and who isn't part of this elect, just that your prayers are going to make no darn difference to those that aren't - be that my nieces, my mates children or the local yogurt salesman...

 

[patrick jane]

Such an attitude is the practice of fatalism . . .

And Fatalism is only a thinking (philosophy) of fallen man.

There are some pretty big holes in calvinism

 

[Nang]

No, it doesn't, nobody is saying that you know who and who isn't part of this elect, just that your prayers are going to make no darn difference to those that aren't - be that my nieces, my mates children or the local yogurt salesman...

I agree with you that God's will be done, and I do not pray in the attempt to change His mind or will.

I simply pray in hope that perhaps He has led me to pray for souls He has chosen for glory, and has given me the privilege to share in His wonderful works!

 

[musterion]

No, fatalism is an inescapable part of your belief, else everyone can be reached and that's not part of your doctrine. If my nieces are 'reprobate' then what good are your prayers going to do?

None. The blood of Christ was not shed for them, if they're in the wrong bucket.

And that right there tells you how evil Nang is -- she'll come back and say "God" is just if he should cast your nieces into the Lake of Fire even though they never had a chance to be saved (if they're reprobate).

 

[musterion]

Reconcile everyone in time?

Universal salvation would be every bit as unjust as Calvinism because it would demand that, in time, God forces everyone to be saved whether they want to be or not, violating their free will and making faith irrelevant. It still ends up in fatalism.

Know how following two arcs of a circle eventually bring you to meeing on the far side? Same thing here. Universalism is the mirror image of Nang's fatalistic Calvinism. They actually teach the same thing...that God FORCES salvation on people...the only difference is how many He forces it upon.

 

[Danoh]

And this is what you believe. That's OK....
But other folks don't all believe exactly how and what you believe.
So those folks should leave you to follow your faith, and you might let others follow their lives how they believe?

In an earlier post I reported that the Island of Malta has voted 66-1 in favlour of Gay Marriage, and Malta is mostly occupied by Catholics, which could show that many Christians see life and faith differently from you.

Other than it's obviously intended impact; my believing it's truth, or not has no bearing on the fact that it is what the Scripture teaches.

The Scripture is crystal clear on this, with or without my input...

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11,12

 

[Eagles Wings]

Why not? I don't ascribe to either Calvinism or your own branch of belief as I consider both to be insidious in their own ways and anything but reflective of a loving God. One way you're damned if you're not already elected and the other you're damned if you don't believe - and in alignment with "correct doctrine" at that. 'Hell' doctrines make monsters out of people sometimes. The only thing I'll agree with is the latter. It seems utterly pointless to even post if everything is a done deal. I said this to Nang in relation to my nieces where she said she'd pray for them. If they're 'elect' they're elect and if they aren't they aren't. Prayers wouldn't make one jot of difference...

AB, I hope you learn of Reformed Theology from those who know it well and not from angry anti-Calvinists who spew lies and misinformation.