Can a person loose their salvation?

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Isa 32:6 For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail.
Isa 32:7 The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right.

News Flash... you... LA... are this vile person the scripture speaks of! God purchased our salvation with His Blood and your viper mouth would call His transaction void!

You condemn the Saved who know who He is!
You perpetually deny the GodHead and thus don't understand Eph. 1:13
You bring division and judgment to every thread you speak on.

A great man taught me that self righteous swine like you have the most vile Carnal sin to hide of all. He was right 100% of the time.

The joke? You condemn the very people that would love you as you are and minister to your soul with Love.

You surround yourself with people that judge as you do and thus are doomed to be rended by your fake, self righteous, condemning spiritual associates.

Did I speak clear enough for you?

 

[freelight]

You can only surmise or hypothesize.....

You can only surmise or hypothesize.....

~*~*~

To be intellectually honest here, and on an even more liberal platform,...I like what a friend of mine used to say when I asked him a religious question,....he would often respond "depends on who you ask"

Since any number of passages, if you want to use 'scripture' can support people who had faith, losing their salvation, as well as some verses supporting that souls are secure in God's hands,...such a question is subject to 'interpretation' or 'personal belief', since you cannot prove an absolute conclusion to this. Your 'interpretation' or 'assumption' will be 'relative' to your preferred point of view, interpretation, personal belief, or any number of things that condition and help form your 'opinion' - and this is the truth of the matter, believe it or not.

You can also if being 'intellectually honest' (notice the qualifier here)....just admit to NOT KNOWING. - assume an agnostic position on it. - I'll admit as liberal as I AM,...I don't know some things, and will just give my philosophical hypothesis on it, or expound on various possibilities and viewpoints. There are multiple points of view on any given topic. All pertinent points must be included in the evaluation.

Of course I throw that out just to knock down some of the dogma and beliefs accumalated to inspire re-searching a matter before concluding something, because re-search could change your mind on any given subject. For discussion contrast purpose I voted 'YES', and its not an absolute conclusion, but a vote for contrasting consideration. Without quoting chapter and verse, granted there are at least a few, AND that God does give souls a choice of life or death, blessings or calamity. This shows that granted free will liberties and the potential/possibilities existing of both 'life' or 'death' in their inception and finality (ultimate conditions)...this would logically allow for some souls to go the way of 'death', destruction and disintegration. Some souls appear to choose life and eternal soul-survival, while some undergo the 2nd death, from which there is no resurrection for that particular life-stream or soul-personality. It is fully exhausted (DIES). Only souls who choose life and put on immortality, go on to survive into the ages to come, in future generations of time and eternity. Now how 'free will' factors into this is a 'pivotal' issue, just to name a few factors

 

[glorydaz]

False - Paul makes no statements to suggest Romans 2 is pre-cross. Indeed, on this section where he talks about judgement, he speaks of Christ and the gospel: "This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares."

No, the section you quoted was what I was referring to. He doesn't mention Jesus Christ and the gospel until part way through the chapter. He's telling the story from the beginning. Those who lived before Christ are judged by how they follow their conscience or the law AS BEST THEY CAN....according to their deeds. It is not salvation by grace according to Paul's Gospel.

Romans 2:6-10 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:​

This isn't a divide between chapter 2 and 3, this is a divide between what is being talked about in chapter 3 alone - the Law vs the righteousness of God manifested through faith in Jesus Christ.

I didn't say there was divide between chapters, I said Paul goes on to explain the differences of living under the law as opposed to justification by grace through faith.

You misunderstand what it means to believe in Christ: it isn't simple mental/verbal acceptance of Christ's teachings.

I never suggested it was.

A true believer is one who actually lives according to what Christ taught. Those who merely claim to believe but do not accompany it with works have a dead faith that cannot save - as James 2 says.

I won't quibble with you over the meaning of James. I will only tell you that many people claim to be saved, but those who are truly saved never have a "dead faith", and here's why. You'll find it in Paul's opening statement. It's the Gospel that is the "power of God UNTO SALVATION to every one that BELIEVETH..." not according to their deeds. Notice "from faith to faith"....our faith in His faith....it's never "alone".

Romans 2:16-17KJV For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.​

Since you like John, here's a quote from that gospel on the matter:

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”​

Notice the implication of this verse: to believe is to obey. The two go hand-in-hand. You cannot truly claim to be a believer if you do not follow what you claim to believe.

I don't know what version you're using, but that's not what John says.

John 3:16,18KJV For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.​

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.​

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus is not the Word.

Jesus is the Word made flesh.

You speak antichrist, denying He came in the flesh.

Jesus Himself said His Word is not His but is the Fathers Word.

LA

It's His name, LA.

Revelation 19:13KJV And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

 

[glorydaz]

I said
A person must be saved to get their name written in the book of life. And if anyone adds to the Word, like adding trinity. Or if anyone takes away from the Word like calling Jesus God.
Their name will be taken OUT of the book of life.

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)

Okay, so you deny Jesus Christ is Emanuel (God with us). Now I know you are among the lost. I usually avoid your posts, so thanks for quoting me and making your disbelief so clear.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Okay, so you deny Jesus Christ is Emanuel (God with us). Now I know you are among the lost. I usually avoid your posts, so thanks for quoting me and making your disbelief so clear.

What I find Hillarious and sad... is that as [MENTION=474]Squeaky[/MENTION] is quoting Rev. 22 and declaring Jesus isn't God... It contains...

Rv. 22:12f, 16, 20

Jesus declares Himself The Alpa And Omega in this chapter!

# The Squeaken Irony!

 

[Lazy afternoon]

News Flash... you... LA... are this vile person the scripture speaks of! God purchased our salvation with His Blood and your viper mouth would call His transaction void!

You condemn the Saved who know who He is!
You perpetually deny the GodHead and thus don't understand Eph. 1:13
You bring division and judgment to every thread you speak on.

A great man taught me that self righteous swine like you have the most vile Carnal sin to hide of all. He was right 100% of the time.

The joke? You condemn the very people that would love you as you are and minister to your soul with Love.

You surround yourself with people that judge as you do and thus are doomed to be rended by your fake, self righteous, condemning spiritual associates.

Did I speak clear enough for you?

You have shown that you speak of either you or I, and I know which it is.

LA

 

[God's Truth]

Hehe


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

What makes a person a heifer or a sheep, is repentance.

Anyone can become a lamb. All can become sheep. You need to read how the Israelites are called heifers and God said they were NOT sheep. You should read how after they repent they will be forgiven and be like sheep.

In Hosea, the Israelites are like heifers. They are told to repent, and then they would be as lambs.

Hosea 4:16 The Israelites are stubborn, like a stubborn heifer. How then can the LORD pasture them like lambs in a meadow?

Hosea 14:2 Take words with you and return to the LORD. Say to him: "Forgive all our sins and receive us graciously, that we may offer the fruit of our lips.

Did you read that scripture? They come to God and ask for forgiveness, and they are forgiven. Now they are like lambs in a meadow.

We are even told unless we become like little children, we cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

Hosea 4:16 The Israelites are stubborn, like a stubborn heifer. How then can the LORD pasture them like lambs in a meadow?

Maybe some disciplining can take care of that.

Anyone can become as a lamb.

All it takes is humbleness, and obedience.

Jeremiah 31:18
"I have surely heard Ephraim's moaning: 'You disciplined me like an unruly calf, and I have been disciplined. Restore me, and I will return, because you are the LORD my God.

 

[God's Truth]

Ouch.

English speakers are not lacking in the Truth because of our language.

 

[God's Truth]

Ephesians 2:8–9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast

Though salvation is free, it is not without condition. We can say "all we have to do is just believe" but saving faith (as opposed to mental belief) is inseparable from love and obedience (John 14:23, Galatians 5:6,Romans 16:26). Let's look at the gift of the Holy Spirit who was promised to those who would partake of the New Covenant (Ezekiel 36:27). When the people heard and believed the gospel the Spirit filled them. Now the Spirit is a priceless gift that cannot be earned only received when we believe yet this verse speaks as though faith and obedience were one and the same thing (Acts 5:31-32)

32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

We cannot pay for the gift of salvation, that is, we cannot give anything of equal worth in exchange for it. However, God does require certain things of us. For instance, we are expected to remain faithful to him continuing to walk in the same faith that first saved us(Colossians 2:6).

Obeying Jesus is how we enter. He is the Way. His words are Spirit and life.

The gospel message is FOR THOSE WHO fear God and do what is right.

That is to whom the message has been sent.

Those Jesus accepts are those who fear God and who do what is right, Acts 10:35.

but that in every nation those who fear Him and live good lives are acceptable to Him.

Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

 

[God's Truth]

No one is going to enter by faith alone, or faith only.

No works does not mean no obey.

No works are about the purification/ceremonial works that used to separate the Jews from the Gentiles, from the rest of the world. Those works no longer save.

Being saved is spiritual. It is a place in the Spiritual realm of God.

Jesus tells us how to enter that place.

People here teach faith, and we need faith, but faith alone is a masquerading light.

What a wonderful light it is.

However, it is not the true light.

 

[God's Truth]

I wonder how many people notice that there are two different words for "love" in those passages?

John 21:15 KJV
(15) So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.


agapo ​G25

phileo G5368

Really? You are going to make a difference between lovest and love as if they are two different kinds of love?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

and the RCC trinitarian can not be baptized with the Holy Spirit as those of Acts ch 2 were, on account of their unbelief of the account.

LA

:chuckle:

LA, the Great Judge of All...

 

[Tambora]

Really? You are going to make a difference between lovest and love as if they are two different kinds of love?

 

[Shasta]

~*~*~

To be intellectually honest here, and on an even more liberal platform,...I like what a friend of mine used to say when I asked him a religious question,....he would often respond "depends on who you ask"

Since any number of passages, if you want to use 'scripture' can support people who had faith, losing their salvation, as well as some verses supporting that souls are secure in God's hands,...such a question is subject to 'interpretation' or 'personal belief', since you cannot prove an absolute conclusion to this. Your 'interpretation' or 'assumption' will be 'relative' to your preferred point of view, interpretation, personal belief, or any number of things that condition and help form your 'opinion' - and this is the truth of the matter, believe it or not.

You can also if being 'intellectually honest' (notice the qualifier here)....just admit to NOT KNOWING. - assume an agnostic position on it. - I'll admit as liberal as I AM,...I don't know some things, and will just give my philosophical hypothesis on it, or expound on various possibilities and viewpoints. There are multiple points of view on any given topic. All pertinent points must be included in the evaluation.

Of course I throw that out just to knock down some of the dogma and beliefs accumalated to inspire re-searching a matter before concluding something, because re-search could change your mind on any given subject. For discussion contrast purpose I voted 'YES', and its not an absolute conclusion, but a vote for contrasting consideration. Without quoting chapter and verse, granted there are at least a few, AND that God does give souls a choice of life or death, blessings or calamity. This shows that granted free will liberties and the potential/possibilities existing of both 'life' or 'death' in their inception and finality (ultimate conditions)...this would logically allow for some souls to go the way of 'death', destruction and disintegration. Some souls appear to choose life and eternal soul-survival, while some undergo the 2nd death, from which there is no resurrection for that particular life-stream or soul-personality. It is fully exhausted (DIES). Only souls who choose life and put on immortality, go on to survive into the ages to come, in future generations of time and eternity. Now how 'free will' factors into this is a 'pivotal' issue, just to name a few factors

It is worth noting that none of the generations of Christian teachers, leaders and apologists that followed the Apostles believed in unconditional eternal security. From their writings it is clear that while they did not believe salvation could be earned through "works of the law," they believed that a Christian must remain faithful, living righteously, obeying the words of Christ and adhering to certain essential teachings.

This is not just a personal opinion, It is a matter of historical record. In fact, it was not until the Fifth Century when Augustine brought into the Church Gnostic ideas of Theistic determinism and human helplessness that anything like "unconditional eternal security" began to be disseminated. Even then, Augustine's idea of "perseverance" allowed for the possibility that some who believed could at some point in their life apostasize from the Faith. The idea of unconditional eternal security as it is currently understood came from Calvin who reasoned that the same "irresistible grace" that secured the salvation of the "elect" could also keep them in that position.

 

[glorydaz]

What I find Hillarious and sad... is that as [MENTION=474]Squeaky[/MENTION] is quoting Rev. 22 and declaring Jesus isn't God... It contains...

Rv. 22:12f, 16, 20

Jesus declares Himself The Alpa And Omega in this chapter!

# The Squeaken Irony!

Yeah, and how about Revelation 1:11KJV....up to and including....

Rev. 1:17-18KJV And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.​