Can a Man Believe While NOT In Christ?

genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

New member
Samie said:
That's precisely the point. The context is fruit bearing. And only those in Christ can bear fruit. But you claim, apart from Christ, you can bear fruit.
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Yep, I believe it because that is what the Bible says.

Matthew 3:7-12
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.​

Samie said:
Obeying is a human act, doable only by those in Christ
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The Bible does not say only those in Christ can obey.

Genesis 26:5
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.​


Romans 4:3
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.​

 
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Samie

New member
genuineoriginal said:
Yep, I believe it because that is what the Bible says.

Matthew 3:7-12
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.​


The Bible does not say only those in Christ can obey.

Genesis 26:5
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.​


Romans 4:3
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.​

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Are you saying, Abraham was NOT in Christ, yet able to obey?
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Samie said:
Are you saying, Abraham was NOT in Christ, yet able to obey?
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Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. (Galatians 3:16)​
 
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Samie

New member
Samie said:
Are you saying, Abraham was NOT in Christ, yet able to obey?
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genuineoriginal said:
That is what the Bible shows.
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Samie said:
Are you sure?
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genuineoriginal said:
Yep.

Genesis 4:7
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.​

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The verse you offered as basis to prove that the Bible shows Abraham was able to obey EVEN if he was NOT in Christ, does not reflect what you want it to say. Gen 4:7 speaks about Cain, NOT Abraham.

Try another verse(s).

And while you're at it, here's jamie's post for you to ponder:
jamie said:
Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. (Galatians 3:16)​
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Looks more like the Bible points us to a direction opposite to where you are pointing.
 
Ktoyou

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Samie said:
Did you notice this dumb is able to believe that apart from Christ, this dumb can do NOTHING, while you and your genius crew insist that apart from Christ you can do SOMETHING?

Try to think about this, geniuses:
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Oh pipe down, or you will have to stand in the corner.
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
It would seem that Father does more than merely draw us.

He also reveals.

Could Simon have believed who Jesus was without such a revealing?

Matthew 16:17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Ahhh, and Abraham.....

How hard was it to believe with the son of God stopping by for dinner on more than one occasion?

Hmmmm :think:
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

New member
Samie said:
The verse you offered as basis to prove that the Bible shows Abraham was able to obey EVEN if he was NOT in Christ, does not reflect what you want it to say. Gen 4:7 speaks about Cain, NOT Abraham.
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There are more people than Abraham in the Bible, and none of them were in Jesus the Messiah until after Jesus was baptized by John.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Samie said:
Man NOT saved is NOT in Christ, and while NOT in Christ, man is dead because Christ is our life (Col 3:4).

A vast majority of preachers teach that to be in Christ, people MUST first ACCEPT the gift of salvation and believe.

So, how can a man ACCEPT & BELIEVE while still spiritually dead?
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We are not just flesh we have a spirit.


Hebrews 12:9, Zechariah 12:1, and Malachi 2:15.


Some people only care about pleasing their flesh. Those people cannot please God.

Romans 8:8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.


There are people that only want to please their flesh, and there are people who are more spiritual they care less about their flesh.

Those who want more in life, when they read or hear the words of God, they want to be saved, so they do what Jesus says to get saved.

When Jesus saves a person that person has the Holy Spirit; and when the saved obey Jesus' teaches that is how the Holy Spirit lives through us, and that is how we live through the Holy Spirit. That causes our spirit to become more alive. We become conformed to the image of Christ, and grow spiritually.
 
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Samie

New member
From the way it looks, the correct answer to the question which is the title of this thread is "NO".

Those who wanted to answer "YES" cannot seem to find Scriptural basis for their answer.

Again:
Man NOT saved is NOT in Christ, and while NOT in Christ, man is dead because Christ is our life (Col 3:4).

A vast majority of preachers teach that to be in Christ, people MUST first ACCEPT the gift of salvation and believe.

So, can a man ACCEPT & BELIEVE while still dead?
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God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Samie said:
From the way it looks, the correct answer to the question which is the title of this thread is "NO".

Those who wanted to answer "YES" cannot seem to find Scriptural basis for their answer.

Again:
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We are flesh and spirit. Not everyone only wants to ONLY PLEASE THEIR FLESH.

There are those who do right.

You were given many scriptures telling that truth, but you ignore the Truth.
 
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