Yes!
Can a Jew be saved without believing the Trinity?
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
Yes!
Okay.
Apple7
New member
There can be no salvation without worship of The Triune God, according to scripture.
Amen brother. One must worship the triune God!
If God is Triune then certainly you are right. I know that God is one.
Apple7
New member
One Trinity.
That is not what Deuteronomy 6:4 says or what it is talking about. If you are simply responding to my use of the word one, I hear you.
Apple7
New member
The Shema is Triune.
Echad means one.
No. But I do not know if I would say that it is monotheistic. Too much baggage with words like monotheism and tritheism. Certainly there is only one God. This agrees with that God is one. Shema Yisrael Yahveh Eloheinu Yahveh Echad. Hear Israel Yahveh Our God Yahveh (is) One.
Apple7
New member
Let’s define our terms first…
ד שְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה אֶחָד.
Shama’ Yisra’el Yahweh Elohim Yahweh Echad
Deu 6:4 Hear,8085 O Israel:3478 Yahweh3068 our God430 Yahweh3068 (is)one259
יְהוָה = “Yahweh”
“Yahweh” definition:
H3068 Singular noun. The Tetragrammaton YHWH, the Lord, or Yahweh, the personal name of God and His most frequent designation in scripture, occurring 5321x. The word refers to the proper name of the God of Israel, particularly the name by which He revealed Himself to Moses (Ex: 6.2-3). It comes from the root “hawa” H1961, which means either existence, or development; “to be”. “The existing one”.
H1961 “hawa” A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.
H1933 “havah” A primitive root supposed to mean properly to breathe; to be (in the sense of existence): - be, X have.
References:
Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT), Gerhard Kittel, Gerhard Friedrich, & Geoffrey W. Bromiley, volume three, pp. 1067 - 1081
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) #484a, Harris, Archer, Waltke, volume 1, pp. 210 – 212
The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary of the Old Testament, Warren Baker, Eugene Carpenter, p. 426
ד שְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה אֶחָד.
אֱלֹהֵינוּ = “Elohim”
“Elohim” definition:
H430 A masculine plural noun. God, gods, judges, angels. This is not a “Plural of Majesty”. A better reason can be seen in scripture itself where, in the very first chapter of Genesis, the necessity of a term conveying both the unity of the one God and yet allowing for a plurality of persons is found (Gen 1.2, 26). This is further borne out by the fact that the form “Elohim” occurs only in Hebrew and in no other Semitic language, not even in Biblical Aramaic. Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
H433 “eloah” Masculine singular noun. God or god. From H410; a deity or the deity: - God, god. See H430.
References:
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) #93c, Harris, Archer, Waltke, volume 1, pp. 41 - 45
The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary of the Old Testament, Warren Baker, Eugene Carpenter, p. 54
The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible Red-letter Edition, James Strong, LL.D., S.T.D., Hebrew and Aramaic dictionary, p. 17
ד שְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה אֶחָד.
אֶחָד = “echad”
“echad” definition:
H259 Adjective. One, same, single, first, each, once. It is closely identified with “yahad”, to be united and with “ro’sh”, first, head. It stresses unity while recognizing diversity within that oneness. A numerical adjective meaning one, first, once, the same. A numeral from H258; properly united, that is, one; or (as an ordinal) first: - a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any (-thing), apiece, a certain [dai-] ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together. One (number), each, every, a certain, an (indefinite article), only, once, once for all, one...another, the one...the other, one after another, one by one, first, eleven (in combination), eleventh (ordinal).
H258 “achad” Verb. Perhaps a primitive root; to unify, that is, (figuratively) collect (one’s thoughts): - go one way or other; be sharp, keen.
References:
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) #61, #605, Harris, Archer, Waltke, volume 1, p. 30, 263
The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary of the Old Testament, Warren Baker, Eugene Carpenter, p. 33
The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible Red-letter Edition, James Strong, LL.D., S.T.D., Hebrew and Aramaic dictionary, p. 10
Here is the message that the Classic Hebrew is conveying to us:
• Tetragrammaton = singular
• Elohim = Plural
• Echad = one unity
• The juxtaposed words…Tetragrammaton, Elohim, Tetragrammaton, Echad
• God is referred to not once, not twice, but three times
• Singular, Plural, Singular
• These three elements form one unity
• Singular = Plural
• Plural = Singular
• God = Gods
• God is clearly singular
• God is clearly plural
• God is Uniplural
Yes, one of unity.
The same word is used to describe man and wife becoming "ONE" flesh. They are still two persons, yet they are one (unity) flesh.
There is an inherent plurality in the word.
Eloheinu is Our God.
No
But you must mean two or more in how you are seeing the word plurality, with husband and wife, and a Triune God.
Apple7
New member
Jeremiah 32.17
Ah, Lord Yahweh! (Father) You have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power (Holy Spirit) and Your outstretched arm (Son); not anything is too difficult for You,
I know a song from this verse!
Apple7
New member
But not the meaning, apparently...
It means what it says. I don't follow (you).