Can a Christian lose their salvation

[Gary K]

That is a nonsensical interpretation.

So in a book of prophecy it's nonsense to see prophetic meaning in all of it? Demonstrate to me any other part of Revelation that isn't prophetic.

 

[Right Divider]

So in a book of prophecy it's nonsense to see prophetic meaning in all of it?

I love the way that you TWIST what other people say. It's so cute and dishonest.

Demonstrate to me any other part of Revelation that isn't prophetic.

The "idea" of "seven periods of time" is the nonsense. Not the rest of the prophesy in the book.

 

[Gary K]

I love the way that you TWIST what other people say. It's so cute and dishonest.

The "idea" of "seven periods of time" is the nonsense. Not the rest of the prophesy in the book.

So because I disagree with you I'm dishonest? That seems to be really arrogant to me.

If I'm wrong then tell me the correct interpretation.

 

[Right Divider]

So because I disagree with you I'm dishonest?

AGAIN, you TWIST what people say. That is dishonest.
No, it's not because you disagree with me.

You make the entire book of Revelation your fantasy to "interpret" any way that you like.

That seems to be really arrogant to me.

Perhaps so, your perceptions are pretty poor.

If I'm wrong then tell me the correct interpretation.

It's seven churches, in seven locations, just like it says.

From the context, show us why it's "seven periods of time".

Note that that chapters 2 and 3 are filled to the brim with Jewish (Israelite) stuff.

Like these:

Rev 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:9) I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.

Rev 2:14 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:14) But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

Rev 2:17 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:17) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth [it].

Rev 2:20 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:20) Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Rev 2:26 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:26) And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Rev 3:9 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:9) Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

 

[steko]

@Hoping

I have one final passage of scripture for you and then I will stop banging on you. Revrelation is a prophetic book so these are prophecies of the Christian church down through time. Notice especially the message to the church of Laodicea as I think we can both agree this is the Christian church of our day as it's hard to see how the evil surrounding us today can get get much worse/

The whole book of the Revelation concerns prophecy for Israel, including the Jewish seven assemblies(churches).

It does not anywhere concern the Church the Body of Christ, which was a mystery revealed to the Apostle Paul and not to the Apostle John.

 

[Gary K]

AGAIN, you TWIST what people say. That is dishonest.
No, it's not because you disagree with me.

You make the entire book of Revelation your fantasy to "interpret" any way that you like.

Perhaps so, your perceptions are pretty poor.

It's seven churches, in seven locations, just like it says.

From the context, show us why it's "seven periods of time".

Note that that chapters 2 and 3 are filled to the brim with Jewish (Israelite) stuff.

Like these:

Rev 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:9) I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.

Rev 2:14 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:14) But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

Rev 2:17 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:17) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth [it].

Rev 2:20 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:20) Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Rev 2:26 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:26) And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Rev 3:9 (AKJV/PCE)So, because
(3:9) Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

So because I disagree with dispensationalism I'm dishonest. Are you dishonest because you disagree with Methodists, Catholics, Lutherans, etc...?

 

[Gary K]

The whole book of the Revelation concerns prophecy for Israel, including the Jewish seven assemblies(churches).

It does not anywhere concern the Church the Body of Christ, which was a mystery revealed to the Apostle Paul and not to the Apostle John.

I disagree. I an not a dispensationalist. Odd how every one of the churches listed is a Gentile church Paul started on his missionary journeys.

 

[Right Divider]

So because I disagree with dispensationalism I'm dishonest.

Again, for the hard of hearing, NO... that is NOT what I said and therefore you are being dishonest yet again.

Are you dishonest because you disagree with Methodists, Catholics, Lutherans, etc...?

You are as confused as can be.

 

[Hoping]

So Paul didn't start any real churches? Corinth, Ephesus, Galatia, Phillipi, and Rome weren't real churches?

He did start churches.
When evil arose, or was introduced, it was thwarted.
Had it remained, it would have proven to be a false church.
There are plenty of those.

 

[Hoping]

Jeremiah lived during the Babylonian captivity.

Thanks for the info.

Oh, so God didn't actually mean any of His OT promises of a spiritual nature for the nation of Israel. He only meant them for the Gentiles. He was just playing games with Israel? He was just giving them false hope? I find that idea an insult to God.

The OT prophesies were for anyone who was interested in them.
Many foreigners believed the OT prophesies.

What do you think the following meant?

It shows that anyone who wants to serve God will be allowed.

You seem to have some very odd beliefs that scripture contradicts quite plainly.

?

Peter said that when he went to Cornelius' home and preached the gospel to he and his relatives. Peter didn't think you and I should hear the gospel until God showed him differently in a dream. The entire Christian church was Jews until Paul came along.

Cornelius and his household were not Jews.
Neither were the Samarians Philip went to.
Both events occurred before Paul's conversion.

 

[Hoping]

@Hoping

I have one final passage of scripture for you and then I will stop banging on you. Revrelation is a prophetic book so these are prophecies of the Christian church down through time. Notice especially the message to the church of Laodicea as I think we can both agree this is the Christian church of our day as it's hard to see how the evil surrounding us today can get get much worse/
So those are the seven churches down through time and the messages to them are found in Revelation chapters 2 and 3.

Out of all seven time periods only two churches did not come under severe condemnation by God for their beliefs and/or behavior. If real churhes cannot be influenced by the devil the large majority of God's church down throughout time have not been real churches. I'd say your beliefs make God out to be as miserable failure in the Christian church.

Notice also the similarities between the Jews of Christ's day and the church of Laodicea. The Pharisees were very proud of themselves and their spiritual condition. It's the reason they murdered Jesus as the devil was leading them around by the nose and they had no idea that it was happening. That tells me that he has the ability to so deceive Christians that they think they are right with God when just the opposite is true. That's the message to the church of our day. How can it not be as we have Christians who support transgenderism and homosexuality.

Do you think "God's churches" support sin ?
I don't.
God will allow sinners to repent of sin, whatever religion they espouse.
Even if they are false Christians.

 

[Gary K]

Do you think "God's churches" support sin ?
I don't.
God will allow sinners to repent of sin, whatever religion they espouse.
Even if they are false Christians.

So you will cling to this idea of sinless Christians. Ok. End of discussion as I promised.

 

[Gary K]

AGAIN, you TWIST what people say. That is dishonest.
No, it's not because you disagree with me.

You make the entire book of Revelation your fantasy to "interpret" any way that you like.

Perhaps so, your perceptions are pretty poor.

It's seven churches, in seven locations, just like it says.

From the context, show us why it's "seven periods of time".

Note that that chapters 2 and 3 are filled to the brim with Jewish (Israelite) stuff.

Like these:

Rev 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:9) I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.

Rev 2:14 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:14) But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

Rev 2:17 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:17) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth [it].

Rev 2:20 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:20) Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Rev 2:26 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:26) And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Rev 3:9 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:9) Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

You said I twist what people say. That's dishonesty. I disagree with you because I'm not a dispensationalist You act is there is no other way to read the Bible. There is and I do it. Dispensationalism is not the only belief around.

 

[Right Divider]

You said I twist what people say.

Only because you did.

That's dishonesty.

No, you were dishonest about what I was saying.

I disagree with you because I'm not a dispensationalist

Then you disagree with Paul (and therefore scripture). Paul was give a dispensation of the gospel which he called "the dispensation of the grace of God".

Eph 3:2 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:2) If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Col 1:25 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Why does this bother you so much?

You act is there is no other way to read the Bible.

There are millions of ways to read the Bible. Not many are correct.

There is and I do it.

I feel sorry for you.

Dispensationalism is not the only belief around.

Duh. Thanks for the news flash!

 

[Gary K]

Only because you did.

No, you were dishonest about what I was saying.

Then you disagree with Paul (and therefore scripture). Paul was give a dispensation of the gospel which he called "the dispensation of the grace of God".

Eph 3:2 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:2) If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Col 1:25 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Why does this bother you so much?


There are millions of ways to read the Bible. Not many are correct.

I feel sorry for you.

Duh. Thanks for the news flash!

So because I disagree with you, a dispensationalist, I'm dishonest and twist scripture. OK. What ever you say. I'll go sit in the corner now, but I'm not changing my mind.

 

[Right Divider]

So because I disagree with you, a dispensationalist, I'm dishonest and twist scripture.

Again, you TWIST what I'm saying and are THEREFORE dishonest.

Why is it so hard for you to have an honest discussion?

OK. What ever you say. I'll go sit in the corner now, but I'm not changing my mind.

You can be stubbornly wrong if you like. Many people are like that. But I'm willing to have an honest discussion, whereas you continue to make false accusations.

 

[Hoping]

So you will cling to this idea of sinless Christians. Ok. End of discussion as I promised.

I sure will cling to the mercy, grace, and power of God in the life of the repentant/reborn.

 

[steko]

So because I disagree with you, a dispensationalist, I'm dishonest and twist scripture. OK. What ever you say. I'll go sit in the corner now, but I'm not changing my mind.

Repent(Grk-metanoia) literally means to change the mind.

 

[Gary K]

Repent(Grk-metanoia) literally means to change the mind.

I know what it means. I also know what the following means from the OT.

Psa_19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

The Hebrew word translated as converting in Strong's means the following:

shûwb, shoob; a primitive root; to turn back (hence, away) transitively or intransitively, literally or figuratively (not necessarily with the idea of return to the starting point);

Thus the law of God converts our hearts. I've never heard a dispensationalist say this, yet it is scriptural. It's one of many reason's I am not a dispensationalist. You might also read Hebrews 11 known as the faith chapter. It's full of the names of people the Bible lists as heroes of faith yet I've never seen. or heard, a MADist admit that faith has anything to do with OT times. You all say the OT people were legalists.

 

[Gary K]

I sure will cling to the mercy, grace, and power of God in the life of the repentant/reborn.

OK. It's that you're one of only two people I know of in decades of being a Christian and being on line who cling to this belief of sinlessness.