7djengo7
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False.
| 1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. |
Can a Christian lose their salvation
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
He became a killer by killing Abel.
I would argue that murder as a concept was created with the ten commandments
Not at all.
"Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin."
This is from Paul's narrative of his past while still in the flesh.
He wasn't anymore when he wrote Romans.
"For when we were in the flesh,..." (Rom 7:5)
"Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
I am not sure of what your point is, but I agree with all those verses.
Summed up with..."Walk in the Spirit and you won't fulfill the lusts of the flesh."
Paul was right !
Thanks be to God.
That is a good way to look at it, as Jesus did say it is adultery to even look on a woman with lust, so it must also hold true that looking on someone with hate is murder.
The heart gets everything rolling.
I am surprised 7djengo7 didn't correct you too.
The problem in your reasoning is that we don't lose our free moral agency be becoming Christians. If we wern't free moral agents we could never become Christians in the first place. We can still choose to sin.
I agree that Galatians 5: 22, 23 tell us we can overcome sin, but that doesn't mean we will always choose to not sin.
Why does Paul say that the old man was crucified so that we should not serve sin rather than telling us we cannot serve sin? And why do we find all throughout his writings counsel to the churches not to sin? The same with John's writings in 1st, 2nd. and 3rd John all the statements he makes about sin and righteousness?
Like I said your beliefs contradict scripture as Paul and John do not disagree. The Bible does not argue against itself.
I agree we still have the choice of slapping Jesus in the kisser, or not, after conversion.
But those who have shed the "flesh" don't !
Plus we can now choose not to commit sin and carry out that choice by the grace of God which we didn't have previously while we walked in the flesh.
I agree.
It does however tell us what those walking in the Spirit's reactions will be to any temptation.
"Should" is probably the word of choice by the interpreters of what we read today.
John uses "cannot" in 1 John 3:9.
Because the folks he was writing to were not holding fast to the the tenets.
All (?) his letter were correcting fleshly behavior of those professing Christ, but not acting like Christ.
John, in 1 John, uses a lot of juxtapositioning to illustrate the great difference between those walking in the light-God, and those walking in the darkness-sin.
Just as Paul did in Rom 8, where he juxtaposed those walking in the Spirit with those walking in the flesh, they illustrated the chasm between believers and unbelievers.
Both show us a right way and a wrong way of life.
Those walking in darkness-sin and those walking in the flesh, are not "in Christ".
They don't argue against each other.
I don't like making long posts as I had a stroke a year oe so ago and my left hand doesn't work well for typing. I'll just address what I see as the key point in your reply.
You would have John ague with himself,
Thus I say you are misreading John's meaning.
I say this is a true text. So what does it mean to abide in Christ? To me this means I stay in contact with Him every day and even more frequently than that. I pray multiple time a day asking for Him to make me like Him and I spend time in His word every day getting to know Him better. Yet I still do what is wrong sometimes. I get irritable, raise my voice to my wife, get upset with posters on line, etc....
I also noticed you didn't respond to the question I asked you about why Paul's writings are filled with counsel to the church members on what to do with those who sin.
So where are all these people who cannot sin in Paul's writings?
7djengo7
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What a bizarre reaction from you to a post in which I documented you glaringly contradicting 1 John 3:15. You claimed that Cain became a murderer by murdering his brother Abel, whereas Scripture states that Cain was already a murderer, and so did not become a murderer by murdering Abel.
Not at all.
If you are referring to 1 John, John is presenting juxtaposing POVs.
One applies to those walking in God...the light, and the other applies to those walking in sin...darkness.
I agree.
If a certain behavior doesn't illustrate Christ, stop doing it.
Keep praying about those things, so that God will allow your growth in grace and knowledge.
I did respond.
The folks he wrote about were not being Christians.
Adultery, covetousness, going to the unbelievers for judgement, requiring circumcision, holding dietary restrictions that had passed away, and other things that were counter to walking in the Spirit, all needed refuting.
He even wrote that some should be cast out.
Cannot and do not are separate questions.
All men "can" sin, but Christians, those who have truly repented of sin and received the gift of the Holy Ghost, don't sin.
Christians have crucified the flesh and walk in the Spirit.
We walk in the light, and not in darkness.
The wayward were getting all the ink.
I like how Paul concluded these epistles.
1 Cor 16:22..."If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha."
2 Cor 13:11..."Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you."
Gal 6:16..."And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God."
Eph 5:27..."That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."
There are your folks who do not sin.
I thank you for going a little deeper into the thought about murder than I did.
I hope Gary K caught your more in-depth post.
You didn't address the scripture I gave you.
It's odd that Paul addressed the issue of sin and righteousness in every church he planted. The same things was said in the OT too,
These are basically the same promise as given in Galatians 5: 22,23. A new heart and God's Spirit put within enabling them to live in God's statutes and keep His judgements because of love for Him.
And here is the fulfillment of Deuteronomy 30: 6 given to the Gentiles.
Do you believe the Israelites/Jews were made sinless too as they were given the same kind of promises?
He literally quoted the verses for you. Try reading the posts people make before you respond to them. Otherwise you'll miss stuff. You seem to have a bad habit of doing that.
By then, it will be too late for you, Hoping.
Repent!
Which doesn't mean it won't happen.
Wrong.
That's law, Hoping.
"If you do not resist, God will not save you."
But that's not what God tells us about His people, Hoping!
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; and perseverance, character; and character, hope. Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 5 - New King James Version
Faith Triumphs in Trouble - Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations...
Those who resist and fail are still saved, because of God's grace. That's the entire point of grace, Hoping!
Grace is "God has saved you, in spite of your failure to resist."
Grace is getting something you don't deserve! When a human sins, he does not deserve to live with God forever, because he has broken God's law, but because God is gracious, God does not impute sin to our accounts when we sin, because He sees Christ's payment on the cross that covers all of them!
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin! Romans 4:8
Sin is not imputed when there is no law. Romans 5:13
We are not under law, but under grace! Romans 6:14
The law was a tutor to bring us to Christ. But now that we have had faith, we are no longer under a tutor. Galatians 3:24-25
That is the context of Romans 6.
It's not about no longer sinning, Hoping, it's about no longer being under sin, for:
The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 15:56 - New King James Version
The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
Christians are no longer under the law, and thus, sin has no power over us.
It doesn't mean we don't sin. It means that we can come boldly into the throne room of God, and ask for help when we need it, because He is not going to see us as criminals needing to be punished, but as children needing help.
Right Divider
Body part
The "new heart" is related to the nation of Israel. The body of Christ is a new creature.
Deuteronomy 30:6 has nothing to do with gentiles.
Deut 29:29-30:10 (AKJV/PCE)
(29:29) The secret [things belong] unto the LORD our God: but those [things which are] revealed [belong] unto us and to our children for ever, that [we] may do all the words of this law. (30:1) And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call [them] to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee, (30:2) And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; (30:3) That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee. (30:4) If [any] of thine be driven out unto the outmost [parts] of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: (30:5) And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers. (30:6) And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. (30:7) And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee. (30:8) And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day. (30:9) And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers: (30:10) If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, [and] if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
That is ALL about Israel and the children of Israel.
I know how you think about them. That was the point. The promises given to Israel are the same as those given to the Gentiles.
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Body part
No, they are not. That is the point of quoting the scripture.
God gave Israel promises specific to the nation of Israel, like the promise of the land. God is not a lair.
I disagree. I'm not a dispensationalist. I do agree that God is not a liar. Besides, what difference does it make? God gave the promises, not a man, and they match up to what Paul and John said. If you don't like that, take it up with God as the promises to Israel come from His word.
Right Divider
Body part
You can be wrong, if you so choose.
That's too bad and probably not completely true.
That's good. You got one right.
It makes a huge difference. God made promises specifically to Israel and He will keep them.
Rom 15:8 (AKJV/PCE)
(15:8) Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises [made] unto the fathers:
Whatever that's supposed to mean...
Paul said that God will restore the kingdom of Israel after the fullness of the gentile come in.
Rom 11:11-12 (AKJV/PCE)
(11:11) I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. (11:12) Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
Rom 11:25-27 (AKJV/PCE)
(11:25) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (11:26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (11:27) For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
You are immensely confused. God promised Israel that they would be safe in their land forever. That will happen some day.