Calvinists' Dilemma

[Epoisses]

Paul knows that the jailer is already spiritually alive so he told him to believe in the Lord, just like what transpired with Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch.

It's a different scenario with you. You teach that people are born spiritually dead in sin, hence not able to believe, yet you require them to believe for them to become spiritually alive. You are teaching a paradox. You are asking the unconscious to go to the doctor to be revived.

Believing, which is overcoming the evil of unbelief, is possible only for the spiritually alive.

People are born spiritually dead in sin, this is a fact of scripture. The Holy Spirit is also reproving all men of sin, righteousness and a judgment to come. So even though I am spiritually dead I am being led to the foot of the cross and repentance by the Holy Spirit. Anyone that comes to Christ can never take the credit for it because of the unseen work behind the scenes that has led them there. Man in his natural state is dead in sin without hope and under a death penalty for the broken law of God.

 

[Samie]

People are born spiritually dead in sin, this is a fact of scripture. The Holy Spirit is also reproving all men of sin, righteousness and a judgment to come. So even though I am spiritually dead I am being led to the foot of the cross and repentance by the Holy Spirit. Anyone that comes to Christ can never take the credit for it because of the unseen work behind the scenes that has led them there. Man in his natural state is dead in sin without hope and under a death penalty for the broken law of God.

Adam was created in the image of God, and therefore created with a Godly nature. On the day of Adam's fall into sin, God did not just fold His hands and did nothing but simply allowed man's nature to morph from its original Godly nature to one you call "dead in sin without hope and under a death penalty". No, sir.

Right on that same day, God implemented the plan of redemption devised before the foundation of the world. That plan was revealed in the life, death, resurrection and High Priestly ministry in the heavenly sanctuary of our Lord & Savior, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Do we blame someone born dark-skinned for being dark-skinned? Do we fault our dogs because they bark instead of purr?

If indeed, man's nature after the fall has changed because God did nothing to forestall the change, neither must God hold people accountable for doing things they could not do otherwise because of their evil nature.

But God forestalled the change and instead reinstated man to his pre-fall Godly state, an act that cost Him His only begotten Son. Hence, people are accountable for not overcoming evil with good because born already In Christ, they have His Power to overcome evil.

 

[Epoisses]

Natural birth happens when we are born into the world. Spiritual birth happens when we receive the Holy Spirit and Christ's life is recreated in us. The natural birth happens first and the spiritual birth later. You are sadly mistaken if you think we are born again when we are born from our mother. It's just absurd at face value.

 

[Samie]

Spiritual birth is the new birth caused by God. And that happened when Jesus rose from the dead. 1 Pet 1:3

 

[Epoisses]

Spiritual birth is the new birth caused by God. And that happened when Jesus rose from the dead. 1 Pet 1:3

That life which Jesus gave to the world is cast aside by many on their way to hell. Sorry Samie but what Jesus gives to the world and what the world actually receives are two different things. God doesn't drag unrepentant sinners screaming and kicking to heaven. He let's them reap the reward for their rebellion against him.

 

[Crucible]

You have to first understand something to rightly be against it. You all don't understand that Reformed doctrine cannot be refuted on any biblical basis, because it is in and of itself an inverted mirror of Free Grace.

Anti-Calvinists on here have the Dumb.

 

[Epoisses]

You have to first understand something to rightly be against it. You all don't understand that Reformed doctrine cannot be refuted on any biblical basis, because it is in and of itself an inverted mirror of Free Grace.

Anti-Calvinists on here have the Dumb.

The great sin of Calvinism is not their espousal of free grace but in their attack on the character of God himself. The picture of the loving Father who sends his Son to die for the sins of the world is changed into the cruel tyrant who creates lost souls to live lives of futility and be damned eternally. They reject God's unconditional love which is the highest sin.

 

[Crucible]

The great sin of Calvinism is not their espousal of free grace but in their attack on the character of God himself. The picture of the loving Father who sends his Son to die for the sins of the world is changed into the cruel tyrant who creates lost souls to live lives of futility and be damned eternally. They reject God's unconditional love which is the highest sin.

Calvinism is against Free Grace. Maybe you simply misused the word 'espousal', or perhaps didn't understand what I meant by 'inverted mirror'.

Calvinism addresses the immutability of God, something that the Catholic Church abandoned in it's desire to pontificate. There is an inherent contradiction with God's immutability and free grace.

'Sovereign election' is an inverted mirror to it, stating that God chooses who is saved, and not subject to fallen will. The elect are those who are reaped by God's providence- the mistake that the non-Reformed make is in thinking it was of themselves who chose to walk into that providence.

And
What is the real difference between God creating, knowing what would come of it, and us having free will over God predestining?
It's nothing but splitting a hair- either way, you call one something, you must call the other the same. The difference is that one takes into account God's omniscience and immutability.

 

[Epoisses]

God is not absolutely sovereign. There are many things that he either cannot or will not do. He will not save unbelieving sinners no matter how badly they parade and pontificate!

 

[Crucible]

God is not absolutely sovereign

And there you have it, folks. Anti-Calvinists deny God's sovereignty lain:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You have to first understand something to rightly be against it. You all don't understand that Reformed doctrine cannot be refuted on any biblical basis, because it is in and of itself an inverted mirror of Free Grace.

Anti-Calvinists on here have the Dumb.

So, I see you've gone back to being a Calvinist. Earlier today you were defending The Urantia Book (UFO Cult) and you were defending the banned poster "Word." Word claims to be the spirit of God and yet you were defending him? Freelight is a mystical Cultist and you were defending his beliefs. Next, you'll become a Mormon for a day, JW Cultist for the next day, then, you might turn into a Catholic? Just what are you at this moment?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Crucible is a confused religious fence sitter. Just cannot make up his mind? Poor soul.

 

[Samie]

That life which Jesus gave to the world is cast aside by many on their way to hell. Sorry Samie but what Jesus gives to the world and what the world actually receives are two different things. God doesn't drag unrepentant sinners screaming and kicking to heaven. He let's them reap the reward for their rebellion against him.

And that's what I have been saying all along. Only overcomers of evil with good will not be blotted out from the book of life. People CAN overcome because God through Christ fashioned them into the Body of His Son on the cross. Those whose names were not blotted from the book of life will be ushered into the heavenly portals. All others will suffer the wrath of God and finally thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[Crucible]

And that's what I have been saying all along. Only overcomers of evil with good will not be blotted out from the book of life. People CAN overcome because God through Christ fashioned them into the Body of His Son on the cross. Those whose names were not blotted from the book of life will be ushered into the heavenly portals. All others will suffer the wrath of God and finally thrown into the lake of fire.

“The book of life is the roll of those who are fore-ordained to life, as in Moses. God has this roll laid up with Himself. Hence the book is nothing but His eternal counsel, determined in His own breast.” ~John Calvin

Exodus 32:32
But now, if you will forgive their sin— but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written.”

Moses, along with the rest of the biblical leaders, understood that God's people could be blotted out of the Book of Life by backsliding- as in, the nation of God will crumble if it does not follow His commands.

Salvation is essentially a lineage, by which some tribes fell and others obeyed. Upon Christ, who is the Tree of Life, this lineage sprouted into the world not just as a lineage but as a wide providence of God.
Still, the elected were chosen from the foundation of the world, not before, which means it began, as 'lineage' suggests, from Adam and his descendants.

 

[Samie]

Moses, along with the rest of the biblical leaders, understood that God's people could be blotted out of the Book of Life by backsliding- as in, the nation of God will crumble if it does not follow His commands.

I'm glad you believe, unlike AMR, that blotting out of names from the book of life is a reality. That goes without saying you also believe there are from the elect who will not make it to the heavenly portals.

UNLESS of course you believe that those written in the book of life but blotted out are not among the elect. In which case, you will have a lot of explaining to do why would God write down names of the non-elect in the book of life.

 

[Crucible]

I'm glad you believe, unlike AMR, that blotting out of names from the book of life is a reality. That goes without saying you also believe there are from the elect who will not make it to the heavenly portals.

UNLESS of course you believe that those written in the book of life but blotted out are not among the elect. In which case, you will have a lot of explaining to do why would God write down names of the non-elect in the book of life.

You missed the entire point of which I was making.

The elect, like Moses, will not be blotted out of the Book of Life. They understood that if they backslid, then that would be the case, but they didn't. And neither did his descendants.
Because of God's will, they did not fail.

If they had failed, Christ would not have come from the lineage of David, and you would not be saved.

 

[Samie]

Moses, along with the rest of the biblical leaders, understood that God's people could be blotted out of the Book of Life by backsliding- as in, the nation of God will crumble if it does not follow His commands.

You missed the entire point of which I was making.

The elect, like Moses, will not be blotted out of the Book of Life. They understood that if they backslid, then that would be the case, but they didn't. And neither did his descendants.
Because of God's will, they did not fail.

If they had failed, Christ would not have come from the lineage of David, and you would not be saved.

In effect you are saying the elect could be blotted out but will not be blotted out.

So why will there be "subjects of the kingdom" who will be thrown outside into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth? Why were there branches of the olive tree cut off?

 

[Epoisses]

And there you have it, folks. Anti-Calvinists deny God's sovereignty lain:

Show me the word sovereignty in the bible.

 

[Epoisses]

You missed the entire point of which I was making.

The elect, like Moses, will not be blotted out of the Book of Life. They understood that if they backslid, then that would be the case, but they didn't. And neither did his descendants.
Because of God's will, they did not fail.

If they had failed, Christ would not have come from the lineage of David, and you would not be saved.

Yet you a Calvinist supposedly one of the elect fail to believe that Jesus is the savior of the world.

You are an unbeliever and a poser.

 

[Nang]

Show me the word sovereignty in the bible.

Show me in the bible, where God is spoken of as being less than ultimate in power and authority . . .