flintstoned
New member
You don't think unrepentant sinners should be punished? God would be UNjust if they weren't punished!
Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
You don't think unrepentant sinners should be punished? God would be UNjust if they weren't punished!
Once again you completely ignored all the questions and verses ive offered.
It IS your place to answer me:
1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to articulate a defense to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But respond with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who slander you will be put to shame by your good behavior in Christ.
Why are you on a message board when you refuse to discuss anything?
No one will ever be punished because of sins. Sinners will be punished because of their rejection of Christ and his Gospel.
I answered your post. You didn't like the answer.
To believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born is to confess that God is unjust.
If God knows who will accept Christ and who will not that makes him even more unjust. This means that God knows who will reject his Son, but goes ahead and gives them life so that he can damn them to hell.
It is not possible for anyone that believes this about God to be saved.
Shasta
Well-known member
The only thing that was said was that the man had not sinned which is true for the parents who had not chosen to sin in their lives and also for the blind man if he had not existed before conception. If what you are saying is correct Jesus might just as well have said of the blind man that he was blind because of sins he had committed in a previous existence. The same could be said of people born with other infirmities, sickness, disabilities, of people who live with chronic pain and of infants who die in childbirth, that they were being punished for some sin they committed in some previous life that they cannot possibly remember much less repent of. This leads to a degradation of the concept of innocence. The Hindu's belief in reincarnation has also led to a great deficit in compassion in Indian culture. The Law of Karma has been a major justification for the Caste System. If the poor are born to a less privileged caste then it is because they committed sins in a previous existence and need to learn something.
When Jesus taught on the afterlife He never alluded to souls being in some pre-birth state of existence nor did He reference a soul entering a new body. In the parables He speaks of the choices men make in a single not multiple lifetimes. When the King judges the servants it is for the deeds done in their body (2 Corinthians 5:10) not the deeds done in many bodies or the deeds done while not in a body Since we only die once (Hebrews 9:27) this life the only theater in which we choose what the outcome will be.
Not only did Jesus not explicitly teach preexistence, the Apostles did not either. Only a couple of ECFs believed it, but in the following centuries the idea was universally rejected as heretical. You cannot construct a doctrine based upon what you think a text is hinting at. Truth is established upon what is explicitly said and in a number of passages. The lack of historical corroboration provides additional evidence that if it was ever taught it was never mainstream. For that matter it is still not mainstream.
Now you have made some inaccurate statements about Esau and Jacob. The most obvious one is that they were "trying to murder each other" while they were still in the womb. To understand this verse one does not need to resort to the comical idea of the twins planning and attempting fetuscide while still in their mother's womb. Seriously, you think fetuses can conceptualize on that level? Their brains are simply not developed enough unless you now posit that they can "think" independently of their physical brain. I think the evidence is on my side in that regard. To be able to understand the issues related to their birth order they would have had to possess a considerable degree of knowledge. I was in upper grade school before I learned what the law of primogeniture was. Those two had quite an education. No doubt that is why Jacob was holding Esau's heel when Esau first emerged from the birth canal. He was trying to pull him back in so HE could be first out. Pre-natal sibling rivalry!
Here is what I think. When Rebecca felt the unusual movement of the twins inside her and asked God about it the Lord attached a prophecy to that physical event. The event itself would serve to impress upon the memories of everyone the content of the prophecy (which was the most important thing). Had she just regarded it as especially vigorous pre-natal activity the prophecy might never have been remembered. As it was everyone, including Isaac, knew that the order of inheritance was supposed to be reversed.
Eagles Wings
New member
I've read some of your posts, Shasta. Are you a member of an Orthodox church?
Shasta
Well-known member
No, I am evangelical but my father is Russian Orthodox.
fishrovmen
Active member
So why then do you believe that God will impute previously forgiven sins back to peoples account? What would be the purpose?
All that God does he does legally. If you are found to be a rejecter of the Gospel in the judgment all of the benefits of the Gospel become null and void. Who said that the unbelievers sins are forgiven? They are atoned for because Jesus is Lord and has atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.
fishrovmen
Active member
You did, in hundreds of threads.
fishrovmen
Active member
You did, in hundreds of threads.
They are atoned for, but they are not forgiven until they accept Christ as their savior.
Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world, Hebrews 2:9.
fishrovmen
Active member
Read Ephesians 1:7,
fishrovmen
Active member
Robert,
You spent a considerable amount of time arguing over and over that the "we" and "us" in Ephesians means all of humanity. Are you now second guessing that?
You spent a considerable amount of time arguing over and over that the "we" and "us" in Ephesians means all of humanity. Are you now second guessing that?
You don't need any of that, because you think that you have been declared by God to be saved from the foundation of the world. Lucky, lucky you.
fishrovmen
Active member
Your posts are like Ivory Soap...99.9% of them have nothing to do with what is being discussed.
Jesus claims to be the savior of the whole world, John 12:47. Not the savior of Just some.
You don't like the answers because it refutes your Calvinist doctrine.
fishrovmen
Active member
Tell me about Ephesians 1:7.