CALVINISM: The Belief that God Predestinates People to Hell Before Birth.

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
How in the world can anyone have faith in a God that predestinates people to hell before they are born? I believe that it is impossible for anyone to love and have faith in a God such as this. This is why on another thread I have referred to the Calvinist God as the Nazi God. I believe that this describes the God of Calvinism.

WARNING: You might be better off to believe in no God at all than to blasphemy God and his Son Jesus Christ with this false doctrine of predestinating people to hell before they are born.

The scripture says, "We shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ" Romans 14:10. Paul said that we should have confidence in the judgment, 1 John 2:28. How could anyone possibly have confidence in the judgment while standing before an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous God that delights in sending people to hell before they are born?

The God of Calvinism frightens me. If the Calvinist are right we are in serious trouble. If you are not one of the elect you are hell bound. It does not matter what you believe or what you do, you are lost. The Calvinist seem to know who and who not are the elect. It appears to me that if you profess that you are one of the elect, you are one and if you profess that you don't believe in Calvinism you are not one. Faith in God and Jesus Christ has no bearing on whether or not you are one of the elect.

And then there is the problem of Jesus being the savior of the world. If you believe that Jesus is the savior of the world then you are not one of the elect. How can Jesus be the savior of the whole world if he only died for the elect? The Bible teaches that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2 also 1 John 4:14. If Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world then Jesus is not Lord, if Jesus is not Lord then he should be removed from his position at the right hand of God where he is, "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

It appears to me that the devil himself created this doctrine of Calvinism. The main purpose of Calvinism is to cause you to lose faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ. It most certainly does not create faith in God or in Jesus Christ.
 

cgaviria

BANNED
Banned
How in the world can anyone have faith in a God that predestinates people to hell before they are born? I believe that it is impossible for anyone to love and have faith in a God such as this. This is why on another thread I have referred to the Calvinist God as the Nazi God. I believe that this describes the God of Calvinism.

WARNING: You might be better off to believe in no God at all than to blasphemy God and his Son Jesus Christ with this false doctrine of predestinating people to hell before they are born.

The scripture says, "We shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ" Romans 14:10. Paul said that we should have confidence in the judgment, 1 John 2:28. How could anyone possibly have confidence in the judgment while standing before an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous God that delights in sending people to hell before they are born?

The God of Calvinism frightens me. If the Calvinist are right we are in serious trouble. If you are not one of the elect you are hell bound. It does not matter what you believe or what you do, you are lost. The Calvinist seem to know who and who not are the elect. It appears to me that if you profess that you are one of the elect, you are one and if you profess that you don't believe in Calvinism you are not one. Faith in God and Jesus Christ has no bearing on whether or not you are one of the elect.

And then there is the problem of Jesus being the savior of the world. If you believe that Jesus is the savior of the world then you are not one of the elect. How can Jesus be the savior of the whole world if he only died for the elect? The Bible teaches that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2 also 1 John 4:14. If Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world then Jesus is not Lord, if Jesus is not Lord then he should be removed from his position at the right hand of God where he is, "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

It appears to me that the devil himself created this doctrine of Calvinism. The main purpose of Calvinism is to cause you to lose faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ. It most certainly does not create faith in God or in Jesus Christ.

Tell, does God, who gave life, not have a right to take life?
 

fishrovmen

Active member
How can Jesus be the savior of the whole world if he only died for the elect? The Bible teaches that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2 also 1 John 4:14.

Robert, if you actually take a few moments to read YOUR OWN threads, you will find YOUR OWN answer to YOUR OWN question.
If you need help let me know.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Robert, if you actually take a few moments to read YOUR OWN threads, you will find YOUR OWN answer to YOUR OWN question.
If you need help let me know.

I know the answer, but you don't.

Jesus has provided salvation for everyone, Hebrews 2:9 and "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.
 

fishrovmen

Active member
I know the answer, but you don't.

Jesus has provided salvation for everyone, Hebrews 2:9 and "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

I didn't ask the flawed question, nor did I provide conflicting questions and answers.
 

cgaviria

BANNED
Banned
The question of whether or not God has the right to take life is not the question.

The real Question is does God predestinate people to hell before they are born?

But understanding the answer to the first question leads to understanding the question posed in this thread. So, yes or no?
 

fishrovmen

Active member
How in the world can anyone have faith in a God that predestinates people to hell before they are born?
And then there is the problem of Jesus being the savior of the world. If you believe that Jesus is the savior of the world then you are not one of the elect. How can Jesus be the savior of the whole world if he only died for the elect? The Bible teaches that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2 also 1 John 4:14. If Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world then Jesus is not Lord, if Jesus is not Lord then he should be removed from his position at the right hand of God where he is, "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

Robert, why did you use the word "world" a few times in your post, and then use the words "whole world" a few times? Don't they mean the exact same thing to you?
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
But understanding the answer to the first question leads to understanding the question posed in this thread. So, yes or no?

It is appointed unto men to die and after that the judgment, Hebrews 9:27. We must all die a physical death.

The question is does God predestinate men to eternal damnation? Or do people damn themselves to hell?
 

cgaviria

BANNED
Banned
It is appointed unto men to die and after that the judgment, Hebrews 9:27. We must all die a physical death.

The question is does God predestinate men to eternal damnation? Or do people damn themselves to hell?

Answer the question, does God have the right to take life, just as he gives life? I'll give you a clue,

"The LORD brings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up. (1 Samuel 2:6 [NIV])
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Robert, why did you use the word "world" a few times in your post, and then use the words "whole world" a few times? Don't they mean the exact same thing to you?

They mean the same thing, John said the whole world in 1 John 2:2. In John 4:14 he just said world.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Answer the question, does God have the right to take life, just as he gives life? I'll give you a clue,

"The LORD brings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up. (1 Samuel 2:6 [NIV])


All that God does he does within his holy, just, merciful, righteous nature and character. He cannot sin against himself, nor can he sin against his created people.
 

cgaviria

BANNED
Banned
God takes life within his holy, just, righteous, nature and character.

It is appointed unto men to die.

You don't want to answer the question directly. But fine, based on your answer, let's go off on a different tangent, because its going to lead to yet another corner for you, who do you suppose has "appointed unto men to die"?
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
You don't want to answer the question directly. But fine, based on your answer, let's go off on a different tangent, because its going to lead to yet another corner for you, who do you suppose has "appointed unto men to die"?

I answered the question. You didn't like the answer.

There are no corners for me. I have nothing to hide.

God appointed men to die and after they die the judgment, which should scare the hell right out of you.
 

cgaviria

BANNED
Banned
I answered the question. You didn't like the answer.

There are no corners for me. I have nothing to hide.

God appointed men to die and after they die the judgment, which should scare the hell right out of you.

Of course it scares me, because I fear God, and the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Now, my next question is this.... will whoever is thrown into hell never die and suffer for eternity?
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Of course it scares me, because I fear God, and the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Now, my next question is this.... will whoever is thrown into hell never die and suffer for eternity?


The Bible teaches eternal suffering.

The subject was does God predestinate people to hell? What is your answer?
 

fishrovmen

Active member
They mean the same thing, John said the whole world in 1 John 2:2. In John 4:14 he just said world.

No, they don't mean EXACTLY the same thing. The word translated to "whole" is an adjective which modifies a noun or pronoun.
If I say that you are a "male", that is a general basic term that is not descriptive, nor identifies your skin color, age, height, weight nor anything else about you.
When I add an adjective(s) such as "white" or "80 year old", or "6 foot", these terms further describe or modify the word "male".
So when we see in 1 John 2:2 that Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, the word "whole" tells us that John means the "whole" (complete, total, entire) world.
But that verse is not speaking of His role as "Savior".
When we see in 1 John 4:14 that Jesus was sent to be the Savior of the world, the word "whole" is not there.
 
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