Calling all Open Theists for Feedback

[Nang]

You and I likely don't care at all if He chose us, or we chose Him, just as long as He's got us. The sovereignty or foreknowledge question is more about past events

No, Lon . . sovereignty questions have all to do with the eternal attributes of God. His foreknowledge likewise, defines His eternal omniscience.

Maybe most do not care about these biblical facts, but all faithful Christians do.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Do you believe the Father is not able to produce children of his kind?

I believe the Father must remain utterly ONE of a kind. Trying to be co-Gods got us in this mess in the first place.

(Is. 14:14 and Gen. 3:5)... thus we must never forget (Is. 45:5)

All Christian Love and Respect,

EE

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

"In basic terms, Molinists hold that in addition to knowing everything that does or will happen, God also knows what His creatures would freely choose if placed in any circumstance."

@Lon... this is Molinism. It is a far divide from anything I have said. I assure you this is again... linear omniscience. It further removes the TrIUne Co-Operation from the matter.

To be direct... this is actually Calvinism. The only divide is that God essentially went through all possible outcomes and ... "Ordained" the one He favored the most.

This would again make God's interaction with us scripted and is highly "anthropomorphic".

I do believe God has emotions and a personality... BTW. I simply believe classical theology is literally making God a grey matter thinker. Open Theism is still growing and progressing. It does far less than limit God. It actually engages the TriUnity in a way that is distinguishable.

It further suggests that God is "provisionally" Architectural to all possible, collective human choice and simultaneously relational on a non-scripted and sincere fashion.

I believe the classical definition of Omniscience is actually limiting God. I will address this in writing to come and also respond to you after I respond to [MENTION=1746]freelight[/MENTION] as I gave my word to him.

I'm definitely not a Molinist. I am indeed an Open Theist.

All Christian Love and Respect in Jesus,

- EE

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

- not really, just philosophizing and bringing up some pertinent points in the question of omniscience (just how omniscient is God?)...and 'free will' (if we genuinely have any degree of libertarian freedom to choose?) - I've read your previous posts here and my responses still hold, with openness for further research, exploration and innovation.

I'll be responding to AMR soon, with his critiques on Molinism (middle knowledge model), since I do see some promise with the 'model' which appears to provide some resolve between some tensions between foreknowledge and human freedom, but there are some problematic points or objections as well, as common with any model.

See:[/B] Foreknowledge and Free Will (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy).

Your chart and model from a Tri-une God perspective attempting to explain the tensions and relationship between 'a-temporal' and 'temporal' knowledge is commendable, and I agree with certain logical seg-ways within the 'context-model' presented.

But there are always more to dimensions to explore

Response to come in the future... prepping...

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

...

How magnanimous and saintimonious of you to piously judge and speak of "religious" lipstick.

 

[Lon]

No, Lon . . sovereignty questions have all to do with the eternal attributes of God. His foreknowledge likewise, defines His eternal omniscience.

Maybe most do not care about these biblical facts, but all faithful Christians do.

Rosenritter sent this to me a couple of months back, and it was this I was thinking of:

“And again, a good man might err in many things, and not be damned; so that his error were not directly against the promises that are in Christ’s blood, neither that he held them maliciously, ... and though all be false, yet should I not be damned, so long as I had no obstinacy therein: for the faith that I have in Christ’s blood should swallow up that error, till I were better taught.”

William Tyndale, “An Answer to Sir Thomas More’s Dialogue”

 

[Lon]

@Lon... this is Molinism. It is a far divide from anything I have said. I assure you this is again... linear omniscience. It further removes the TrIUne Co-Operation from the matter.

I simply believe classical theology is literally making God a grey matter thinker. Open Theism is still growing and progressing. It does far less than limit God. It actually engages the TriUnity in a way that is distinguishable.



I'm definitely not a Molinist. I am indeed an Open Theist.

All Christian Love and Respect in Jesus,

- EE

Good to know. Realize too, that I've said other Open Theists also explain their openness in Molinistic terms. It is likely for lack of better explanation, but the presentation is definitely from Molinistic tendency. As to orthodox Christianity-past, we'll have to discuss the viability of it, but I believe it logically inescapable, that there is scripting of a sort specifically because we are finite. Finite indeed means 'completely knowable.' I'll look forward to how you will wrest with such. -Lon

 

[jamie]

I believe the Father must remain utterly ONE of a kind.

So why would Paul claim we are the children of the Father?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

@Ask Mr. Religion

First... You are deeply appreciated! As I have done in the past towards you... you are cutting to the heart of the matter. I appreciate your putting up with my "FLESHLY" communication in my last response and giving my words so much time and sincere respect, despite our differing understandings. You have conveyed matters to a further clarity.

EE,

Kind words, thank you.

I note that Lon is already discussing this with you and seems to be able to understand you enough to walk through your thinking. For the time being, I believe I'll divert our extended conversation to Lon for now, as I do not have the time due to some dire personal issues I am dealing with at present. I will pray for all of our growth and wisdom in our Lord Jesus Christ.

AMR

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

EE,

Kind words, thank you.

I note that Lon is already discussing this with you and seems to be able to understand you enough to walk through your thinking. I believe I'll divert our extended conversation to him for now, as I do not have the time due to some personal issues I am dealing with at present. I will pray for your growth and wisdom in our Lord Jesus Christ.

AMR

(James 2:15, 16)

AMR,

I dedicate this OP to you! You are a Theist with an Open Heart to Jesus and I now cite (1 Cor. 1:13)

I am angry at myself for being without the resources to be there for you! You would do the same for any of us if we came to you and you could! The true gathering would look out for one another in times of a fellow siblings needs!

I am getting pulled into the physical, hands of the ministry gospel by the Holy Spirit! I propose that all of us that have little look deep into your expression here. You are a wonderful servant of God and you shouldn't have to sell a thing!

The true CHURCH has only one theology, one heart and NO ROOF! It is now that we should seek the gathering of our local churches to be there for you! I will carry this with me as I go into next week and see if God will allow me to respond at all.

We all are in need at various times in our life, and this is the core of the gospel...

Theology is Grand, but we are HIS HANDS!

[MENTION=595]Knight[/MENTION] ... I want to see if I can petition my local church's about this! I feel like all of us here at ToL should do so!

Though we have nothing... we are tied to the brick and mortar and a gathering would yield. I don't even know what I am quite saying, but this is my immediate heart!

AMR... This is where I am on this matter.. If I can't do something for you my brother... how can I go forward. We should all band together!!!!!!!!!!!!

I shift this OP to be about being there for one another, despite theological differences.

The works? Now we have a chance to do them for Him!

All Love to you AMR! You are first and last in my prayers until your needs are met, and I allow God to use me to assist if he will show me the way!

I am without work currently and attempting to get into the ministry! I am without, but not going through the trials you are on any level. He will provide! Let us all not just lift you up in prayer, but sincerely petition our local churches!

We must be able to be there for you! By GOD... WE MUST!!!

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

No, Lon . . sovereignty questions have all to do with the eternal attributes of God. His foreknowledge likewise, defines His eternal omniscience.

Maybe most do not care about these biblical facts, but all faithful Christians do.

Nang...

Lon is your Christian Brother and He does honor to Christ first, then Calvinism. He has no desire to corral with you. For this matter... [MENTION=7209]Ask Mr. Religion[/MENTION] is your Christian and Calvinist brother. What good are we if we simply talk theology here?

Love is the core of the Gospel. Let us make peace... I humble myself before you, in respects to (1 Co. 1:13). Let us who Glory Jesus now unify out of Love for one another. Please read AMR's last post and follow the link.

You are a strong willed, go getter. Can we band together and petition our local churches to be there for our dear brother [MENTION=7209]Ask Mr. Religion[/MENTION]?

I strip myself to John 5:39 before you and say... are we not His hands?

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

EE,

Kind words, thank you.

I note that Lon is already discussing this with you and seems to be able to understand you enough to walk through your thinking. For the time being, I believe I'll divert our extended conversation to Lon for now, as I do not have the time due to some dire personal issues I am dealing with at present. I will pray for all of our growth and wisdom in our Lord Jesus Christ.

AMR

OP Update!!! ... please follow AMR's link and let us consider petitioning our local churches for him! We cannot let this servant of Christ down!

[MENTION=16629]patrick jane[/MENTION] (Drive by, but always appreciated)
[MENTION=13955]glorydaz[/MENTION]e (Keeping things lively and keeping the disruptions in check)
[MENTION=15326]intojoy[/MENTION] (Made an appearance)
[MENTION=6141]Nick M[/MENTION] (Crossing arms, standing tall)
[MENTION=12045]jamie[/MENTION] (Keeping me on my toes)
[MENTION=7233]Ktoyou[/MENTION] (Reminiscing of older times)
[MENTION=1746]freelight[/MENTION] (Spiritual insights and eclectic observations that assist and unify)
[MENTION=17501]ok doser[/MENTION] (Awesome FEEDBACK!)
[MENTION=4465]Bright Raven[/MENTION] (Heavy Hitter and Deep OP Contribution)
[MENTION=8862]Hawkins[/MENTION] (Keeping it fun with interesting insight)
[MENTION=19469]jsanford108[/MENTION] (Fantastic points)
[MENTION=15685]musterion[/MENTION] (Short, Sweet, to the Point and Devoted to Jesus)
[MENTION=3698]Tambora[/MENTION] (Heavy Hitter and Deep OP Contribution)
[MENTION=17606]Derf[/MENTION] (Heavy Hitter and Deep OP Contribution)
[MENTION=15338]Right Divider[/MENTION] (Deep OP Contribution... just wading into the water)
[MENTION=15579]1Mind1Spirit[/MENTION] (Deep OP Contribution and reminding us to recognize the contrite spirit)

Please spread the word! Please consider this! We are HIS HANDS AND BODY!
[MENTION=13959]meshak[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=10015]Lazy afternoon[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=7266]Zeke[/MENTION]
[MENTION=18164]Eagles Wings[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=12870]steko[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=15685]musterion[/MENTION]
[MENTION=13925]Grosnick Marowbe[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=7053]SaulToPaul[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=1851]john w[/MENTION]
[MENTION=9592]Shasta[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=9508]Robert Pate[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=15399]Nanja[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=11952]TulipBee[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=1707]....[/MENTION] anyone!!!

We need to make an OP for this!

Someone do it!!!!!!!!!! This should be TOP ToL priority!

Please raise a ruckus!

Please let us all band together for our Dear friend and Brother AMR!!!!!!!

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

OP dialogue paused until AMR's needs are met!

Please let us band together!

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I dedicate this OP to dialogue on connections and people that are immediately with answer to this matter of showing Love to our dear brother in Jesus AMR!!!!!

Come on Gospel Troops... Let's make this happen!!! .... let's beat our Gospel feet and do this!!! We are blessed to be there for our friend and brother... come on people...

EE,

Kind words, thank you.

I note that Lon is already discussing this with you and seems to be able to understand you enough to walk through your thinking. For the time being, I believe I'll divert our extended conversation to Lon for now, as I do not have the time due to some dire personal issues I am dealing with at present. I will pray for all of our growth and wisdom in our Lord Jesus Christ.

AMR

OP Update!!! ... please follow AMR's link and let us consider petitioning our local churches for him! We cannot let this servant of Christ down!

[MENTION=16629]patrick jane[/MENTION] (Drive by, but always appreciated)
[MENTION=13955]glorydaz[/MENTION]e (Keeping things lively and keeping the disruptions in check)
[MENTION=15326]intojoy[/MENTION] (Made an appearance)
[MENTION=6141]Nick M[/MENTION] (Crossing arms, standing tall)
[MENTION=12045]jamie[/MENTION] (Keeping me on my toes)
[MENTION=7233]Ktoyou[/MENTION] (Reminiscing of older times)
[MENTION=1746]freelight[/MENTION] (Spiritual insights and eclectic observations that assist and unify)
[MENTION=17501]ok doser[/MENTION] (Awesome FEEDBACK!)
[MENTION=4465]Bright Raven[/MENTION] (Heavy Hitter and Deep OP Contribution)
[MENTION=8862]Hawkins[/MENTION] (Keeping it fun with interesting insight)
[MENTION=19469]jsanford108[/MENTION] (Fantastic points)
[MENTION=15685]musterion[/MENTION] (Short, Sweet, to the Point and Devoted to Jesus)
[MENTION=3698]Tambora[/MENTION] (Heavy Hitter and Deep OP Contribution)
[MENTION=17606]Derf[/MENTION] (Heavy Hitter and Deep OP Contribution)
[MENTION=15338]Right Divider[/MENTION] (Deep OP Contribution... just wading into the water)
[MENTION=15579]1Mind1Spirit[/MENTION] (Deep OP Contribution and reminding us to recognize the contrite spirit)

Please spread the word! Please consider this! We are HIS HANDS AND BODY!
[MENTION=13959]meshak[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=10015]Lazy afternoon[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=7266]Zeke[/MENTION]
[MENTION=18164]Eagles Wings[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=12870]steko[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=15685]musterion[/MENTION]
[MENTION=13925]Grosnick Marowbe[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=7053]SaulToPaul[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=1851]john w[/MENTION]
[MENTION=9592]Shasta[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=9508]Robert Pate[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=15399]Nanja[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=11952]TulipBee[/MENTION] ... [MENTION=1707]....[/MENTION] anyone!!!

We need to make an OP for this!

Someone do it!!!!!!!!!! This should be TOP ToL priority!

Please raise a ruckus!

Please let us all band together for our Dear friend and Brother AMR!!!!!!!

 

[jamie]

I believe the Father must remain utterly ONE of a kind.

A father should isolate himself from his children? That's dysfunctional and wrong. Utterly wrong. Totally wrong.

Jacob's people became the Father's firstborn and he sent Jesus to convert them into a spiritual kingdom as it is today.

The Father loves his children as any father should. The Father is not human, but he is not inhumane.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

A father should isolate himself from his children? That's dysfunctional and wrong. Utterly wrong. Totally wrong.

Jacob's people became the Father's firstborn and he sent Jesus to convert them into a spiritual kingdom as it is today.

The Father loves his children as any father should. The Father is not human, but he is not inhumane.

OP dialogue paused until AMR's needs are met!

Please let us band together!

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

ToL community... I'm not joking! AMR has a specific OP with specific opportunity for us to be there for him as his sibling in Christ and the hands of Christ. Please encourage him and start considering how we can get word out so we can be there for him!

He has a very incredible offering for sale that is the grail of biblical study! We can also take initiative to petition our local churches for him. Sincerely... I'm seeing zero response... this is unacceptable!

.... James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

ToL community... I'm not joking! AMR has a specific OP with specific opportunity for us to be there for him as his sibling in Christ and the hands of Christ. Please encourage him and start considering how we can get word out so we can be there for him!

He has a very incredible offering for sale that is the grail of biblical study! We can also take initiative to petition our local churches for him. Sincerely... I'm seeing zero response... this is unacceptable!

.... James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

EE,

Kind words, thank you.

I note that Lon is already discussing this with you and seems to be able to understand you enough to walk through your thinking. For the time being, I believe I'll divert our extended conversation to Lon for now, as I do not have the time due to some dire personal issues I am dealing with at present. I will pray for all of our growth and wisdom in our Lord Jesus Christ.

AMR

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Link tho AMR'S OP!!! Where are the Hands of the Body? We need to get the word out!!!!

Incidentally... This is a major offering from AMR!!! This is a grail of biblical study... but... we can also petition local churches to assist with finances for nothing in return. We have this obligation and right as the hands of our Lord! Help me get this word out people... please.... this OP is about this until we see AMR through, through Christ!!!!

Logos 7 Gold Library For Sale

As some of you may know, I have been taking care of my wife (bedridden, suffering from mental and physical disabilities) for many years now. Due to some very recent unexpected losses of consulting monies (the client has went out of business leaving my invoices unpaid), my situation has become dire, to the point that bills are going unpaid in lieu of putting food on the table. I really cannot say more publicly and am ashamed of my need to ask for assistance in the form of this sale.

To that end, I would like to offer up my Logos 7 Reformed Gold software library for sale. There is a $20 license transfer fee to hand over my license to another that I will pay. That person would have to have established a logos.com account. Per the folks at Logos, to make the transfer the purchaser will need to provide me with their Logos' account email address and shipping address.

This is a wonderful opportunity for obtaining an extensive electronic theological library at a very reasonable price.

The library contains $14,462.00 in purchased books and resources that I have made in the past eight years. While the official Logos library is Gold, after reviewing the complete list you will find it to be equal in its content to Logos' Diamond or Portfolio levels. Please see the attached list below of all the actual purchased items in the library which was copied from my Logos.com account listing of all my purchases. The attached list below is only the directly purchased items and not all the items I have obtained with various Logos base package upgrades in the past years.

In fact, the total number of items in my library is 4,823 books and resources. The complete 339 page, 5Mb+ list of each and every item in my Logos library can be downloaded at the link below:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6HWxDunFF2GeU9ZSlowUzRVRDg

The complete library can be yours for $3,000.00, a 79% discount, that can be paid to me via Paypal. At PayPal direct your funds for to my registered PayPal email address for receipt of money (obfuscated here for antispam): amr AT askmrreligion DOT com (replace AT with @ and DOT with . combining all with no spaces).

Payment by personal check is also acceptable. If paying by check, please PM or email me for the mailing address. Once the monies have cleared PayPal or my bank, I will initiate the transfer of the library to your Logos account. Note that for personal checks this will likely require a delay of up to ten business days.



Click to download List of Purchased Items

Realizing that this sort of transaction via the Internet will give some apprehension, I am happy to privately provide the purchaser with a photo ID of my driver's license (or passport) and my home phone contact number to assuage any fears of potential scam or fraud behind this transaction.

Lastly, I want to personally thank Knight, who has generously granted me permission to post this sale item.

Thank you all for your consideration, mercies, and prayers for my situation.

AMR

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Link to AMR'S OP!!! Where are the Hands of the Body? We need to get the word out!!!!

Over 14,000 dollars of the grail of Biblical study material for 3,000 dollars... and an opportunity to petition local churches!!! Are we merely talk? Help us all walk... with our brother... AMR!

Incidentally... This is a major offering from AMR!!! This is a grail of biblical study... but... we can also petition local churches to assist with finances for nothing in return. We have this obligation and right as the hands of our Lord! Help me get this word out people... please.... this OP is about this until we see AMR through, through Christ!!!!