Calling all Open Theists for Feedback

[Lon]

Lon, the problem seems to be the Calvinist view of God's sovereignty. God does not always enforce His sovereignty to the extent that human action is completely irrelevant. God did not make us puppets, He made us in His image. God calls us to make choices and I believe that they are real choices and not an illusion.

God, on His own accord, limits His own sovereignty. That is His prerogative.

You relate that is on your side too. MAD do follow Jesus and His words for them, but because it isn't the leading discussion, others think you do not. Similarly, It is hard to explain something where the logical set is different. Even the Double-Predestination Calvinist doesn't believe God is evil and works to understand 'evil' in a different context. Interestingly, because of preservation, they seldom explain this.

I've given the Future Almanac analogy before: basically if I were to receive an Almanac from the future, I'd have EDF, but having little or no ability, I could do nothing about the events to come. So, the events will surely happen, but I had nothing to do with them. It is rather a time paradox.
I do not believe God is to blame for man's sin. In every court case a suit may settle one way, but yet the defendant or prosecution will walk away thinking the other is guilty despite the verdict in the other's favor. I think it human nature and perspective. I don't have God's perspective other than as He tells us, that He is perfect in all His attributes. I then take it in faith that He is good, regardless of what "I" perceive. Even if I were an Open Theist, I would have to do this. It never escapes these human problems, but to me, rather tries to put them off, than erase them. IOW, I think OV OT doesn't get rid of them. It is more like a magician box, still there, but behind a false wall. -Lon

 

[Lon]

I'm not real comfortable praying to Jesus.

I talk to Jesus and pray to God.

"As the Father." If you have seen Him, you have seen the Father. Let scripture guide you. Revelation 3:20, I don't think you can help prayer (communication) to all/one, can you?

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Not true. My position is that humans are not God persons until they are born of the Father as God persons.

Jesus was the first of many.

Jamie...

This is Morman. I'm calling Bull business. There is only ONE (UNE) HE... None are God but He. I speak from the TriUne stance and quote (Is. 45:5; Is. 43:11 and Lk. 2:11; Dt. 6:4 and Rv. 4:2)

 

[jamie]

Jamie...

This is Morman. I'm calling Bull business. There is only ONE (UNE) HE... None are God but He. I speak from the TriUne stance and quote (Is. 45:5; Is. 43:11 and Lk. 2:11; Dt. 6:4 and Rv. 4:2)

Which one of the three are we flesh of?

Which one is our brother?

Which one has the same Father that we have?

Which one will we be like when Jesus manifests himself?

Who lives in us?

Who can do greater things than Jesus?

 

[Lon]

Lon, the problem seems to be the Calvinist view of God's sovereignty. God does not always enforce His sovereignty to the extent that human action is completely irrelevant.

For me, a logical impossibility. Sovereignty is demanded where 'not one thing exists that exists' Colossians 1:17 or that in Him, we move and breath and have our being. Acts 17:28 Sounds completely sovereign to me. I don't have the luxury afforded to see these verses in another light. Having read them over and over, I am stuck. Problems? Sure, but I will not compromise what I believe is correct for the problems. I can't trade. Look what that would be: immediately looking to see if the translation is correct or 'could be taken another way' right (I've looked)?

God did not make us puppets

Can God choose to sin? :nono: Does that make Him a puppet? :nono: I think there is a logic disconnect in here. It started with Boyd, Sanders, and Pinnock, but I don't think they were quite the scholars they needed (should have been) to be.

He made us in His image.

"Yet, the serpent said 'you will be like God." Open Theism has greatly helped me come to the other end of my theology regarding freewill. It was the day I became a Calvinist. I was always an Amyraldian prior. Freewill the way we know it, I do not believe is a gift, but a result of knowing good and evil 'to be like God.' The serpent wasn't lying, neither was God: We died with Adam.

God calls us to make choices and I believe that they are real choices and not an illusion.

Yes to deny ourselves (refrain from making choices, it is one master or the Other). A new creation desires God. Nothing else really matters to us. We (you included with a new-created nature) don't really care about puppetry. We are "identified" in Christ. It is a hallmark statement of Open Theology that God is relational. If true, then identity is oddly the goal of OV as well. Freewill then becomes His-will. The very thing that we'd assert is the very thing that is gone "In Christ." If not, I'd highly suspect that one's salvation. He is still in a will 'free' from Christ, no?

God, on His own accord, limits His own sovereignty. That is His prerogative.

:nono: I believe it an impossibility. It isn't logically possible else God has a GOD. As far as I understand, it is the only other possibility BUT whatever the actual God would then be, still wouldn't be able to limit sovereignty or definite foreknowledge. Both are logically a foregone conclusion, as I understand logic and what must be. -Lon

 

[Right Divider]

For me, a logical impossibility. Sovereignty is demanded where 'not one thing exists that exists' Colossians 1:17 or that in Him, we move and breath and have our being. Acts 17:28 Sounds completely sovereign to me. I don't have the luxury afforded to see these verses in another light. Having read them over and over, I am stuck. Problems? Sure, but I will not compromise what I believe is correct for the problems. I can't trade. Look what that would be: immediately looking to see if the translation is correct or 'could be taken another way' right (I've looked)?

In His sovereignty God allows humans to make choices and God judges the choices made.

Or are you saying that human action is irrelevant and God judges people for actions that they have no control over?

Can God choose to sin? :nono: Does that make Him a puppet? :nono:

That does not make any sense Lon. My point is that God is not controlling every human action. He created man to act and not as a puppet on a string or as a robot programmed to do right or to do wrong.

I think there is a logic disconnect in here. It started with Boyd, Sanders, and Pinnock, but I don't think they were quite the scholars they needed (should have been) to be.

Don't know those guys or what they think.

"Yet, the serpent said 'you will be like God." Open Theism has greatly helped me come to the other end of my theology regarding freewill. It was the day I became a Calvinist. I was always an Amyraldian prior. Freewill the way we know it, I do not believe is a gift, but a result of knowing good and evil 'to be like God.' The serpent wasn't lying, neither was God: We died with Adam.

I don't get your point here.

Yes to deny ourselves (refrain from making choices, it is one master or the Other). A new creation desires God. Nothing else really matters to us. We (you included with a new-created nature) don't really care about puppetry. We are "identified" in Christ. It is a hallmark statement of Open Theology that God is relational. If true, then identity is oddly the goal of OV as well. Freewill then becomes His-will. The very thing that we'd assert is the very thing that is gone "In Christ." If not, I'd highly suspect that one's salvation. He is still in a will 'free' from Christ, no?

How does one become "a new creation"? My understanding from the Calvinists here is that you have to win the coin toss.

:nono: I believe it an impossibility. It isn't logically possible else God has a GOD. As far as I understand, it is the only other possibility BUT whatever the actual God would then be, still wouldn't be able to limit sovereignty or definite foreknowledge. Both are logically a foregone conclusion, as I understand logic and what must be. -Lon

Perhaps I worded it poorly.

God sovereignly allows humans to make choices. I know that it is not my choice that saves me, but His grace.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Which one of the three are we flesh of?

Which one is our brother?

Which one has the same Father that we have?

Which one will we be like when Jesus manifests himself?

Who lives in us?

Who can do greater things than Jesus?

I almost agree, but... He is God... He said (Luke 20:36)

I agree with everything you say except that we will be elevated to "Be Like God". We will be like "Angels".

There is only One Lord of the Heavenly Host or to put it in a much cooler way... One God of the Angel Army.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Jesus has been born of the Spirit as God, but there is only one Most High God.

There is only one American president, but he is not the only one in government.

The family of God is a government and the buck stops with the Father.

Nothing happens without his approval. Nothing.

The most High is One and His Body (Son), Soul Holy Spirit) and Spirit (Father) are truely TriUne. To marginalize One is to marginalize the other. This is where recognition of the Tri needs reinforcement of the UNE.

All Love and Respect, in Him,

EE

 

[jamie]

The most High is One and His Body (Son), Soul Holy Spirit) and Spirit (Father) are truely TriUne. To marginalize One is to marginalize the other. This is where recognition of the Tri needs reinforcement of the UNE.

So why marginalize the Bride of Christ?

And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” (Revelation 22:17)

Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate. (Mark 10:9)​

Don't try to separate the Son and his bride.

 

[glorydaz]

Not true. My position is that humans are not God persons until they are born of the Father as God persons.

Jesus was the first of many.

Oh dear. You sound like you have JW roots. You are really confused about God, and this idea that men will ever be "God persons" is common in so many cults. :nono:

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

So why marginalize the Bride of Christ?

And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” (Revelation 22:17)

Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate. (Mark 10:9)​

Don't try to separate the Son and his bride.

This is where you show your depth of study. Excellent!! But... Hiarchy exists for this reason. The woman is subject to the HUSBAND who died for her. The cited biblical misogyny is a sham... it all ties to John 5:39. Thus, we are indeed one flesh with Him, but the BRIDE is always UNDER the GROOM.

Equality? In Love and Grace... yes! Equality in Goodness? Never.

(Rv. 4:10)

 

[glorydaz]

So why marginalize the Bride of Christ?

And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” (Revelation 22:17)

Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate. (Mark 10:9)​

Don't try to separate the Son and his bride.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

One Question's Non-Answer Stalls Progress

One Question's Non-Answer Stalls Progress

I admit, I'm appreciative that you did read everything carefully. I am exceptionally disappointed to have my mornings work returned "Un-Quoted",

EE,

You are reading more into this than my intentions. Until we can establish exactly your view about the future knowledge of God, proceeding further must be postponed. And I most certainly do intend to proceed in responding to your other points.

The Godhead is of one mind and one will on this matter, EE. There are no changes in the Godhead with respect to essence, divinity, attributes, due to the Incarnation, else many errors are then assumed.

I know the majority view of the open theist on the matter of the knowledge of God concerning the future. That view has been discussed by openism's major proponents, e.g., Pinnock, Boyd, Sanders. Even Rev. Enyart, a favorite of many and pastor to some here at TOL, has made his position clear (see below).

What I want to know is your own view, which appears to be more than just a nuance of commonly understood open theism.

Do you believe God knows exactly each and every thought, word, or deed, that you or I will do in the remainders of our lives on this earth? Not what we might do, but what in fact we will actually do. Simply, is the future settled as far as God's knowledge is concerned, in that God knows we will do these events even before we will actually do them?

Rev. Enyart, when contrasting another's like my own, was plain spoken in providing an answer:

"The Open View, alternatively, reports that the future is not settled..."

My view, in less than 100 words, is clear:
From the perspective of God, given His exhaustive knowledge of all that happens that is grounded in the fact that He has ordained all that happens, the future is wholly known to God, right down to the electronic spin of atoms. The future cannot be other than what God has ordained the future to be. Hence, the future is settled from God's perspective. The future is not settled from our finite, temporal perspectives, nevertheless the future will not be other than what God has ordained it to be.

I am not asking a "trick" question or seeking to play "gotcha!" games here, EE. I simply want to know your plainly stated view.

Your view, not a yes or no, but something similar to my own above, please?

AMR

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

A quick OP Update.... (Per Knight in the discussion window... Star Wars Avatars until May 4th...)

To all of you who are here to bring engaging dialogue...
[MENTION=7209]Ask Mr. Religion[/MENTION] (Heavy Hitter and Deep OP Contribution)
[MENTION=6696]Lon[/MENTION] (Heavy Hitter and Deep OP Contribution)
[MENTION=16629]patrick jane[/MENTION] (Drive by, but always appreciated)
[MENTION=13955]glorydaz[/MENTION]e (Keeping things lively and keeping the disruptions in check)
[MENTION=15326]intojoy[/MENTION] (Made an appearance)
[MENTION=6141]Nick M[/MENTION] (Crossing arms, standing tall)
[MENTION=12045]jamie[/MENTION] (Keeping me on my toes)
[MENTION=7233]Ktoyou[/MENTION] (Reminiscing of older times)
[MENTION=1746]freelight[/MENTION] (Spiritual insights and eclectic observations that assist and unify)
[MENTION=17501]ok doser[/MENTION] (Awesome FEEDBACK!)
[MENTION=4465]Bright Raven[/MENTION] (Heavy Hitter and Deep OP Contribution)
[MENTION=8862]Hawkins[/MENTION] (Keeping it fun with interesting insight)
[MENTION=19469]jsanford108[/MENTION] (Fantastic points)
[MENTION=15685]musterion[/MENTION] (Short, Sweet, to the Point and Devoted to Jesus)
[MENTION=3698]Tambora[/MENTION] (Heavy Hitter and Deep OP Contribution)
[MENTION=17606]Derf[/MENTION] (Heavy Hitter and Deep OP Contribution)
[MENTION=15338]Right Divider[/MENTION] (Deep OP Contribution... just wading into the water)
[MENTION=15579]1Mind1Spirit[/MENTION] (Deep OP Contribution and reminding us to recognize the contrite spirit)

Questionable Contributors.
[MENTION=18164]Eagles Wings[/MENTION]
[MENTION=7266]Zeke[/MENTION]

Agents of Disunity and Derogatory communication
Mashek
Lazy Afternoon
Nang

Now... Here it is... [MENTION=7209]Ask Mr. Religion[/MENTION] and Myself are now locked in a serious discussion that is bringing out our affiliations of "Theological Doctrine". [MENTION=6696]Lon[/MENTION] is going the extra mile to respond from the perspective of Calvinism, but is also exemplifying Christian Unity.

Be aware... This OP is going to get kicked up an unexpected notch within the next 3 days. (1 Co. 1:13) will be its focus and those who understand its meaning are ahead of the game.

Deep gratitude to each of you!!!! (Except Mashek and Lazy Afternoon...)

- [MENTION=18375]Evil.Eye.<(I)>[/MENTION]

 

[meshak]

Deep gratitude to each of you!!!! (Except Mashek and Lazy Afternoon...)

May God bless you, EE

 

[jamie]

Equality? In Love and Grace... yes! Equality in Goodness? Never.

There is only one Spirit. We all assume the Spirit of God.

But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. (Romans 8:11)​

The Father's Spirit becomes who we are and it never leaves.

 

[jamie]

Oh dear. You sound like you have JW roots. You are really confused about God, and this idea that men will ever be "God persons" is common in so many cults. :nono:

Those born of a human are human. Those born of the Spirit are Spirit.

There is only one Spirit, united in love for one another.

Jesus said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit." (John 3:6)

Only God is immortal.

 

[Lon]

In His sovereignty God allows humans to make choices and God judges the choices made.

Or are you saying that human action is irrelevant and God judges people for actions that they have no control over?

We have control, but it is BAD control. Our 'freewill' imho, is given by Satan. It is the will to do whatever we want, without God, as 'if' that were possible. It is not. I do agree with your later statement that God in sovereignty, allowed it, but not as a gift. My will has never wrought God's desire. ONLY His-will in me ever (EVER) has. -Lon

That does not make any sense Lon. My point is that God is not controlling every human action. He created man to act and not as a puppet on a string or as a robot programmed to do right or to do wrong.

It does, but needs both further explanation and further looking into (both you an I) for the sense of it to fall to understanding.

Don't know those guys or what they think.

They are basically the 'fathers of Open Theism.'

I don't get your point here.

In a nutshell: Freewill is a gift from Satan, rather than God. It is an incredibly hard concept and I didn't like it. Conversations with Open Theism have greatly forced this POV upon me (not by intent).

How does one become "a new creation"? My understanding from the Calvinists here is that you have to win the coin toss.

If you desire Jesus, how did that happen in you? Whatever your answer, was it a coin-toss? For me: I had to 'be made' (passive) a new creation. I have to go in for a procedure this week. I didn't choose it, it was chosen for me. Not everyone gets it done, but it is to ensure my quality of life (it isn't a big deal, thanks for any concern). It wasn't, however a coin-toss. Our human capacity and limitation is trying to figure out the finite of our circumstance. Imho, it is wrong, our circumstance is infinite. No coin is capable, such is merely random predictability but I don't believe random is necessarily infinite else we couldn't say 'saved' but rather 'being saved.' Let me try and unpack that: A coin-toss is insufficient to explain why either you or I are saved and nobody else is. I give you, I think, a meaningful example: Try and tell me, as a nonCalvinist why you are a new creation. You know beyond doubt you couldn't do the procedure yourself. Try. Try to explain that and I think you will somewhat touch upon some of my ideas here. -Lon

Perhaps I worded it poorly.

God sovereignly allows humans to make choices. I know that it is not my choice that saves me, but His grace.

Yes it does. Read with me Colossians 1:16-20 Acts 17:28 John 5:15 For the Christian, literally (LITERALLY) our life-blood. In Him and my incredible privilege to at all discuss our incredible and incomparable God.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

[MENTION=7209]Ask Mr. Religion[/MENTION]

First... You are deeply appreciated! As I have done in the past towards you... you are cutting to the heart of the matter. I appreciate your putting up with my "FLESHLY" communication in my last response and giving my words so much time and sincere respect, despite our differing understandings. You have conveyed matters to a further clarity.

EE,

You are reading more into this than my intentions. Until we can establish exactly your view about the future knowledge of God, proceeding further must be postponed. And I most certainly do intend to proceed in responding to your other points.

The Godhead is of one mind and one will on this matter, EE. There are no changes in the Godhead with respect to essence, divinity, attributes, due to the Incarnation, else many errors are then assumed.

I know the majority view of the open theist on the matter of the knowledge of God concerning the future. That view has been discussed by openism's major proponents, e.g., Pinnock, Boyd, Sanders. Even Rev. Enyart, a favorite of many and pastor to some here at TOL, has made his position clear (see below).

I agree with the GodHead being of ONE MIND. I would say... (The Father... Spirit... MIND... Architect). However, when I say this, I specifically insinuate that the very TriUne relationship of the Trinity allows for a very complex relationship with mankind, that ends up simplifying matters for mankind and exonerating the ONE that never needed Exoneration in the first place.

What I have expressed here...

Yes = Full Omniscience. (A-Temporal Omniscience)
No = Limited Foreknowledge
Mediator = Person of Trinity that Mediates between the (A-Temporal) and the (Temporal) to Limit Foreknowledge and allow Free Will and Sincere, linear, relationship towards ALL Creation, while allowing Architectural intervention upon the needs of mankind and God's ultimate will.

Is a fair summation of what I am expressing... However... your following dialogue assists me in communicating an answer towards you that is worded in a way that will be compatible with what you are looking for.

What I want to know is your own view, which appears to be more than just a nuance ("a subtle difference in or shade of meaning, expression, or sound.") of commonly understood open theism.

This is possible true, but no two theologians are "SINCERELY" alike. We are all unique and diametrically different... like snow flakes... as we sincerely attempt to hear the still small voice while we read and pray. Beyond Essential Doctrines... (John 5:39f and Eph. 2:8f)... everything else becomes a dance of communication between people who are all utterly captivated by OUR Precious Lord, God and Savior... Jesus Christ the Messiah.

Do you believe God knows exactly each and every thought, word, or deed, that you or I will do in the remainders of our lives on this earth?

Suggesting a new theological distinction that is compatible with Open Theism from Classical Theism.

Classical Omniscience = Linear Omniscience
Open Omniscience = Multidimensional Omniscience

And with this definitive distinction... per the chart I provided...

Yes.

Not what we might do, but what in fact we will actually do. Simply, is the future settled as far as God's knowledge is concerned, in that God knows we will do these events even before we will actually do them?

In light of my previous answer... No... I disagree with (Linear Omniscience)

Rev. Enyart, when contrasting another's like my own, was plain spoken in providing an answer:

"The Open View, alternatively, reports that the future is not settled..."

I have many friends here that like Bob E. I don't dislike Bob E. But, he is not my theological reference point and I simply recognize him as another human being that is sharing his understanding of God, as we all are. I commonly state that the only time Theism was 100% accurate was HERE... (John 5:39). With this in mind... the actual Open Theist answer (IMO) should not be as Bob E. answered.

There are multiple facets to the logical answer to the question Bob E. was obviously asked.

(1) Prophetic Architecture (The Architects Ultimate Plans)
This future is settled by the Father (Architect)

Example... All Biblical Prophecy

(2) Nations and Tribes
This future is deeply settled yet marginally relational by a co-collaborated effort of the (Temporal and A-Temporal) Existence of our Omnipresent God.

Example... Niniva.

(3) Prophets, Kings, Rulers, Anointed Servants (Of GOD)...
NOT... {The Wicked Kings and Rulers, or vessels that were anointed by the Adversary of GOD (Accuser)} ... These would be recognized via the Temporal and A-Temporal co-collaboration and utilized and then put down for God's purpose... yet they "Appointed themselves or were appointed by wicked people.")

(3) continued from broken thought... Back to those (of God)
Their future is mostly settled, yet still a co-collaborated effort of the (Temporal and A-Temporal) Existence of our Omnipresent God.

David, Isaiah, Daniel... etc.

(4) Individual People
This future is not settled... though... Salvational Assurance claimed... indeed settles our ULTIMATE FUTURE... ( :

My view, in less than 100 words, is clear:

I will attempt to word my response to your statement in the same format... line by line.

From the perspective of God, given His exhaustive knowledge of all that happens that is grounded in the fact that He has ordained all that happens,

From the perspective of God (Who is THEE non-linear... Infinite Origin of ALL and given His Loving Nature and Utter Goodness that is grounded in scripture, He never ORDAINED EVIL. This is why (Dynamic or Multidimensional) Omnipresence and Omniscience (Afforded by the GodHead) is so very important to take into account.

the future is wholly known to God, right down to the electronic spin of atoms.

The Multi-Dimensional Omnipresence and Omniscience of God in relation to Time and Timelessness allows the Infinite to remain blameless from the wickedness that plagues creation.

The future cannot be other than what God has ordained

The lives of God's Creations are special, unique and utterly meaningful to God, thus God the Father Architecturally (A-temporally) planned, but sincerely (Temporally) through the Son and Holy Spirit... in a genuine Manner that allows sincere unfolding of time and RESPONSE TO HUMAN CHOICE relates to mankind by human choice., and without predestined fate.

the future to be. Hence, the future is settled from God's perspective.

If the future to be were utterly settled from God's perspective, then Time would be an illusion and life would be a distorted sham.

The future is not settled from our finite, temporal perspectives, nevertheless the future will not be other than what God has ordained it to be.

The future is not utterly settled, because God loved us so much that He provided fertile soil of genuine choice that allows for the sincere return of Love towards God, or the Sincere rejection of God's Love.

I am not asking a "trick" question or seeking to play "gotcha!" games here, EE. I simply want to know your plainly stated view.

I can clearly see this now. Like all fantastic communicators... you were struggling to communicate with me in a way that would allow our minds to understand what one another are communicating.

Your view, please?

From the perspective of God (which I don't even have a fraction of ability to actually comprehend), Who is THE non-linear... Infinite Origin of ALL, given His Loving Nature and Utter Goodness, and grounded in scripture, it is clear that He never ORDAINED EVIL. This is why (Dynamic or Multidimensional) Omnipresence and Omniscience (Afforded by the GodHead) is so very important to take into account. The Multi-Dimensional Omnipresence and Omniscience of God, in relation to Time (Temporal) and Timelessness (A-Temporal), allows the Infinite to remain blameless from the wickedness that plagues creation. The lives of God's Creations are special, unique and utterly meaningful to God, thus God the Father Architecturally (A-temporally) planned, but sincerely (Temporally) through the Son and Holy Spirit... in a genuine Manner that allows sincere unfolding of time and RESPONSE TO HUMAN CHOICE relates to mankind by human choice., and without predestined fate. If the future to be were utterly settled from God's perspective, then Time would be an illusion and life would be a distorted sham. The future is not utterly settled (By the Choice of the Architect, Mediator and Builder that Co-Collaborate and are utterly ONE, yet THREE.), because God loved us so much that He provided fertile soil of genuine choice that allows for the sincere return of Love towards Him, or the Sincere rejection of His Love.

AMR

All Christian Love and Respect...

EE

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Those born of a human are human. Those born of the Spirit are Spirit.

Though we are born of THE SPIRIT... We are not THEE SPIRIT. When we are resurrected... We will have Spiritual Existence and Spiritual Bodies. (Lk. 24:31)

There is only one Spirit, united in love for one another.

Amen

Jesus said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit." (John 3:6)

There is a differing modal here. The SPIRIT is born within us... so to speak. Yet... we walk by Faith and not by sight to hear what the Spirit is saying to us and look past, what the world judges by. We will be REBORN... Spiritually, per 1 Cor. 15 ... but we are not SPIRIT... we are Of the Spirit.

Only God is immortal.

This might not be the word you were grasping for... we will (1 Co. 15:53)