logos_x said:
I agree
I disagree.
Stay tuned
You did not answer directly one single thing that I posted to you. You then diverted away. I will post it again in its entirety to give you another opportunity to doge it er....respond.
logos_x said:
Clearly, evil does not enter Heaven.
Agreed. So by what means can someone evil enter Heaven since we are all sinners? Only those who have been covered by the blood of the Lamb, those who have exercised saving faith.
Satan and the fallen angels has as much variation in Christian thought as any other topic.
Not amongst Bible-believing Christians. Anyone who truly believes the Word of God understands who Satan is and what he is. He is a fallen angel who rebelled against God and was cast out of Heaven. He is the enemy of Christians and seeks to take as many to the Lake of Fire with him as he possibly can. He is a loser who has been defeated by the Lord Jesus Christ, and is merely awaiting the final execution of his judgment when he is cast into the Lake of Fire where he will remain for all eternity. GOOD Bible scholars are practically unanimous on this. You might find some LIBERALS who don't believe it, but not conservative Bible-believers,
among which Universalists are NOT!
If it is impossible for Satan and fallen angels to be restored, then why allow them to continue doing what they do at all?
God's patience is only in allowing as many to come to faith as possible. But His patience grows shorter by the day.
As wickedness increases, the final judgment grows closer. Satan's days
are numbered and he knows it.
Jews don't view Satan as a fallen angel.
And most Jews don't believe Jesus is the Messiah either. What is your point? If you want to quote people who reject Jesus Christ as Biblical authorities be my guess. They have
missed the very One whom the Scriptures prophesied about. They reject Him. I love Jewish people, and know Messianic Jews who love the Lord Jesus Christ and accept Him as Messiah. But I wouldn't let anyone who rejects my Lord and Savior be MY authority on the Word of God. The Holy Spirit who INSPIRED the Word lives inside me and every other person who knows Christ. Does He live in you Stephen?
The Bible clearly shows that Satan is a fallen angel who fell from Heaven after attempting a rebellion against God.
There might not be a clear answer Kevin.
Oh but there is.
It is found in the Bible:
Jude:
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward
destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in
everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example,
suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Eternal fire is all that awaits those fallen angels.
Evil will not enter Heaven so the only way they could enter Heaven is to cease being evil. Since "satan" means opposer, Satan would have to no longer be Satan in order to enter Heaven. He would have to be restored to an un-fallen state. The same with man.
How would Satan be restored to an un-fallen state? By the Lord Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the cross? Angels and men
are not the same.
Christ died for men.
Christ is not an angel.
For angels to be saved from their sin, Christ would have had to have been an angel. IS CHRIST AN ANGEL?
Of course He is not, so He
did not die for angels, but for men.
The Scripture is as crystal clear on this as it is on everything else that speaks
against Universalism.
1 Peter 1:10-12
10
Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have
preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—
things which angels desire to look into.
I don't view that as an impossibility
Then you deny the Word of God! Jesus Christ DID NOT bear the sins of demons. The fallen angels and Satan have NO REDEEMER, Stephen. No way to PAY for their sins! Your clinging to making "reconciliation of all things" mean salvation of all living beings makes you refuse to admit this basic truth, but the Bible is explicitly plain that Christ died for men. You cannot find one single verse that supports the salvation of fallen angels and Satan. Not one.
And there are plenty that refute it utterly and completely!
The devil and fallen angels are the reason WHY God created the Lake of Fire. The Bible says this plainly. It also says they will be cast into the Lake of Fire and that they will spend all eternity there.
It is only by denying what the Bible says that anyone could POSSIBLY say that fallen angels and Satan the deceiver go to Heaven.
Satan is not in Hell right now.
I agree that Satan is not in Hell right now. He works right here on the earth and tirelessly goes about the business of deceiving and tempting, which he is good at. Universalism is a
prime example of this deception!
UNIVERSALISM SAYS:
If Satan is one of the things in Heaven and Earth that will be found in Christ in the fullness of times, then even Satan will be restored in the end.
THE BIBLE SAYS:
Hebrews 2:14-17 (KJV)
14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of
flesh and blood,
he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God,
to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
DID NOT take on the nature of angels! What did He take on? The seed of Abraham. Not much clearer than that.
He was Made like His brethren. Are angels Jesus' brethren? NO! Or do you believe they are? Please help us to understand clearly whether or not this is what you believe.
I would hope you would agree that angels are NOT Christ's brethren.
Wait....verse #17 also says that He made propitiation for the sins of angels....NO.... OF OF OF "THE PEOPLE"!!!!!!!!!! Note it
doesn't say of the
people and the angels.
Romans 5:9
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
1 Pet. 2:24 - "and He Himself bore
our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed."
Whose sins did Jesus bear? People or angels? Is an angel speaking there? The Word became FLESH. Angels are NOT flesh!
Universalism vs. The Bible. The Bible wins hands down!
Is Christ an angel Stephen? If not, then how does Satan have his sins paid for. Or is it your position that Satan and the fallen angels will not have their sins paid for?
