Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Yes,he already has it!
You even admit that they already possess eternal life so why are you arguing that they will not have it until the world to come?
Born Dead - Spiritual Stillbirth
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Yes,he already has it!
You even admit that they already possess eternal life so why are you arguing that they will not have it until the world to come?
In this age eternal life is held in trust by Jesus Christ. Those who have the Son have life ... those who don't, don't.
Eternal life becomes inherent when we are born again at Christ's appearing.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Then why does the Apostle John tell the Christians that they have already been given eternal life?:
"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son" (1 Jn.5:11).
People have been given eternal life, but it currently is external to us, it is not inherent, it is not intrinsic.
The Father does not intend flesh and blood to be immortal, but we will be given a Spirit body and immortality at the first resurrection.
If we have an eternity what's the rush?
Samie, Please explain what you understand by 'alive' in Rom7:9. Paul was obviously living in this world; but is he meaning spiritually alive ? I have asked you to clarify your meaning of alive previously. Please do not just throw this one verse around,like a sledge hammer, in a useless attempt to smash what is shown in Eph 2:1-3. Everyone is 'born in sin' and from this state of sin grows a life 'dead in sins and transgressions(Eph2:1). Everyone was born dead to God but alive to sin.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
What Paul calls the "inner man" has received eternal life and it cannot be described as being external.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The problem with you is you see me sledge-hammer-throwing-a-verse but you don't see yourself. You keep on claiming Eph 2:1-3 says people are born dead in sin when it does not say so. Paul who wrote those verses says in Rom 7:9 he started out alive, hence not born dead in sin as you understand him saying in Eph 2:1-3.
As to how I understand "alive" in Rom 7:9, it is being spiritually alive. The death that came to Paul is spiritual death due to the law that revived sin, hence, it simply follows that his being alive prior to that spiritual death is being spiritually alive.
OK, so you believe you are immortal. Do you also have an incorruptible body like Jesus Christ?
Jerry, That assertion is a shorthand summary of the entire Bible's teaching about man. From Genesis Ch3 onward to Eph2:1-3. I think you will be aware of the multitude of scriptures teaching that human nature is fallen in Adam. I confidently assert that such human nature can only produce a life 'dead in sins and transgressions, a life ' under the wrath of God'. Jerry, What do you believe about human nature accordiing to scripture?
Not interpreting Rom 7:9; simply believing what it says: alive first then died.
It's you who interpret Eph 2:1-3, despite Paul's own statement in Rom 7:9 that clearly goes against your interpretation of what he wrote. The verses say dead in sin NOT born dead in sin. And Paul explained in Rom 7:9 he was first alive then died. You are interpreting Paul to suit your belief.
But I understand you. A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
Yes, Adam fell into sin. BUT God implemented the plan of salvation He devised before the foundation of the world and saved Adam through Christ that very same day he fell into sin and reinstated him to his pre-fall spiritual status, an act that cost the Father His only begotten Son - the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. With Adam in Christ, all his descendants are born in Christ!
Not scriptural.
Are the verses that back up what I say not in the Bible? Please show why you said my position is not Scriptural. Show from the Bible, not just from your mouth.
God is God of love (agape). If He did not save Adam when he fell into sin, then He did NOTHING to save him that day but simply watched his child drown. An earthly father, upon seeing his child fall into the water, will do all in his power to save his child from drowning, will he not? If an earthly father will, why would our heavenly Father not?
Yes, He will and He did save Adam that day by implementing the plan of salvation He devised before the foundation of the world (2 Tim 1:8-10) and saved Adam through Christ (Acts 4:12), an act that cost the Father His only begotten Son - the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8)!
Your belief that God did not save Adam that same day describes the Father in a bad light.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Of course not but I have been given eternal life (1 Jn.5:11).
And the Lord Jesus said that those to whom He gives eternal life shall never perish:
"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:28).
so even though I have not yet been given my immortal body I will received that body in the future.
I now possess eternal life and I am told that I shall never perish and so it is eveident that i possess a life which can be describes as being "eternal."
What? Adam drowned? That's not scriptural either. Adam lived a long life and died.
Christ is our life (Col 3:4), and in Him being part of His Body, we have life eternal. Unless He removes us from His Body by blotting our names from the book of life because we did not overcome evil with good. See Rev 3:5, 21
I didn't say you didn't have eternal life, I said your eternal life is being held in trust for you to be awarded at your resurrection when you are born of the Spirit.
There is no reason to make this complicated.
How so? Adam was told ahead of his sin what the consequences would be.
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