ECT Born Again

[Right Divider]

The Apostle Paul tells those in the Body of Christ that once living believers will be caught up to meet Him in the air then they will forever be with Him:

"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever" (1 Thess.4:17).
​

So when the Lord Jesus returns to set up His earthly kingdom those in the Body will be with Him. And since only those who are "born again" can enter that kingdom (Jn.3:3,5) then common sense dictates that those in the Body of Christ are born again.

Common sense indicates that Jerry does not understand the context of Jesus' earthly ministry.

You're a Bible masher Jerry.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Common sense indicates that Jerry does not understand the context of Jesus' earthly ministry.

Why don't you actually answer the fact that Paul used the word "rebirth" in regard to the salvation of those in the Body of Christ?

 

[Right Divider]

Why don't you actually answer the fact that Paul used the word "rebirth" in regard to the salvation of those in the Body of Christ?

Please show me where Paul says anything even remotely like "Ye must be born again".

P.S. You kept using Titus which is one of Paul's LAST epistles. This important "rebirth" doctrine needs to come MUCH earlier.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Please show me where Paul says anything even remotely like "Ye must be born again".

P.S. You kept using Titus which is one of Paul's LAST epistles. This important "rebirth" doctrine needs to come MUCH earlier.

Since you think that you know what Paul was NOT referring to at Titus 3:5 when he spoke of a "rebirth" then you must know what he was teaching when he used that word.

What meaning was he placing on the word?

 

[Right Divider]

Since you think that you know what Paul was NOT referring to at Titus 3:5 when he spoke of a "rebirth" then you must know what he was teaching when he used that word.

What meaning was he placing on the word?

You're becoming just like the other "dictionary theologians" around here.

Bible Word Search Bingo.

 

[john w]

Those wacko bible blenders, who shout, "It all says the same thing!!!"

1 John 3:9 KJV Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


1 John 5:18 KJV We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...KJV-and-clearing-up-the-fog-re-1-John-3-9-KJV

 

[glorydaz]

• Some believe that this "baptism" is a drowning.
• Jerry will make this "newness of life" into "rebirth" and then into "born again".... we can't win.

Yeah, you're right. It sorta makes it hard to even discuss what Paul is saying when people try to blend it into every other book in the Bible. Satan is having a field day with those who fail to rightly divide the Scripture. :nono:

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You're becoming just like the other "dictionary theologians" around here.

Bible Word Search Bingo.

So it is not good theology to discuss the meaning of Greek words?

Why does no one want to discuss what Paul was actually saying when he used the Greek word translated "rebirth" in this verse?:

"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:4-5).​

Why does no one want to discuss what Paul meant when he used the Greek word translated "begotten" in the following verse?:

"for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel" (1 Cor.4:15).​

I don't know who told you that discussing the meaning of Greek words is bad theology but I would suggest to you that you stop listening to whoever it was who told you that.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Those wacko bible blenders, who shout, "It all says the same thing!!!"

1 John 3:9 KJV Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

First of all, your opinion on the meaning of verses referring to being born of God means little because you cannot even understand that a person is born of God by faith and faith alone despite what we read here:

"He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God" (Jn.1:11-13).​

The Jews who lived under the law were born again when they "believed" that the Lord Jesus is the Christ:

"Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well" (1 Jn.5:1).​

Of course John and the people he addressed in his first epistle all believed that the Lord Jesus is the Christ so they were all born again. And here is what he said about himself and those to whom he addressed his words:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness" (1 Jn.1:9).​

John sure didn't think that he had not sinned since he became born of God or else he wouldn't have said told the believers as well as himself are to confess their sins.

What John is saying at 1 John 3:9 is that anyone is born of God does not sin because God's seed remains in him. God's seed is his nature and therefore the child partakes of the nature of his Parent. Any sin which a person who is born of God commits does not stem from the believer's regenerate nature. And that explains why Paul said the following:

"For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me" (Ro.7:19-20).​

Of course this explanation is way above your head because you still have not learned that being born of God is a result of faith and only faith.

"Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well" (1 Jn.5:1).​

 

[Right Divider]

So it is not good theology to discuss the meaning of Greek words?

Not if you can't understand that context determines the precise meaning of words and that the same words does not have the IDENTICAL meaning everywhere that it's found.

Why does no one want to discuss what Paul was actually saying when he used the Greek word translated "rebirth" in this verse?:

"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:4-5).​

Why do feel the need to Bible hop and Bible correct?

Why does no one want to discuss what Paul meant when he used the Greek word translated "begotten" in the following verse?:

"for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel" (1 Cor.4:15).​

Begotten there does NOT mean "born again".

Was Jesus "born again"?

I don't know who told you that discussing the meaning of Greek words is bad theology but I would suggest to you that you stop listening to whoever it was who told you that.

I never said that it was. Except when you think that you're the only expert.

You don't have a Bible that you believe. That's why you hop, hop, hop and correct, correct, correct.

 

[john w]

First of all, your opinion on the meaning of verses referring to being born of God means little because you cannot even understand that a person is born of God by faith and faith alone despite what we read here:

"He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God" (Jn.1:11-13).​

The Jews who lived under the law were born again when they "believed" that the Lord Jesus is the Christ:

"Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well" (1 Jn.5:1).​

Of course John and the people he addressed in his first epistle all believed that the Lord Jesus is the Christ so they were all born again. And here is what he said about himself and those to whom he addressed his words:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness" (1 Jn.1:9).​

John sure didn't think that he had not sinned since he became born of God or else he wouldn't have said told the believers as well as himself are to confess their sins.

What John is saying at 1 John 3:9 is that anyone is born of God does not sin because God's seed remains in him. God's seed is his nature and therefore the child partakes of the nature of his Parent. Any sin which a person who is born of God commits does not stem from the believer's regenerate nature. And that explains why Paul said the following:

"For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me" (Ro.7:19-20).​

Of course this explanation is way above your head because you still have not learned that being born of God is a result of faith and only faith.

"Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well" (1 Jn.5:1).​

Read/deleted.

I only engage bible believers, not bible correctors/agnostics/mystics.


Take your seat, and stuff your "the Greek," as you cannot read it, speak it, understand it, write it, fraud, and you would not know the difference between Kojak, and "Jimmy the Greek."

To demonstrate how much of a windbag, pseudo "scholar," and con artist Jer is, as are all these "the Greek says...." scammers, tell us, Jer: What "the Greek" is James referring to here?:

James 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

The "the Greek" con artist is GOOGling the net as I post this.....

 

[john w]

So it is not good theology to discuss the meaning of Greek words? ...Why does no one want to discuss what Paul was actually saying when he used the Greek word translated "rebirth" in this verse?:................I don't know who told you that discussing the meaning of Greek words is bad theology but I would suggest to you that you stop listening to whoever it was who told you that.

John 3 KJV
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


John 3:3 KJV....Strong's numbers indicating the Greek words:

Jesus <2424> answered <611> (5662) and <2532> said <2036> (5627) unto him <846>, Verily <281>, verily <281>, I say <3004> (5719) unto thee <4671>, Except <3362> a man <5100> be born <1080> (5686) again <509>, he cannot <1410> (5736) <3756> see <1492> (5629) the kingdom <932> of God <2316>.


From "The Greek" words in Strong's, to "The English:"

Jesus answered and bid them Amen, Amen, I tell thee, If not anything bringforth from the first he cannot perceive the kingdom of the godly.

 

[john w]

First of all, your opinion on the meaning of verses referring to being born of God means little because you cannot even understand that a person is born of God by faith and faith alone despite what we read here:

"He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God" (Jn.1:11-13).​

The Jews who lived under the law were born again when they "believed" that the Lord Jesus is the Christ:

"Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well" (1 Jn.5:1).​

Of course John and the people he addressed in his first epistle all believed that the Lord Jesus is the Christ so they were all born again. And here is what he said about himself and those to whom he addressed his words:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness" (1 Jn.1:9).​

John sure didn't think that he had not sinned since he became born of God or else he wouldn't have said told the believers as well as himself are to confess their sins.

What John is saying at 1 John 3:9 is that anyone is born of God does not sin because God's seed remains in him. God's seed is his nature and therefore the child partakes of the nature of his Parent. Any sin which a person who is born of God commits does not stem from the believer's regenerate nature. And that explains why Paul said the following:

"For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me" (Ro.7:19-20).​

Of course this explanation is way above your head because you still have not learned that being born of God is a result of faith and only faith.

"Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well" (1 Jn.5:1).​

Those wacko bible blenders, who shout, "It all says the same thing!!!"

1 John 3:9 KJV Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


1 John 5:18 KJV We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Ezekiel 11 KJV
17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord God; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel. 18 And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence. 19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:20 that they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...KJV-and-clearing-up-the-fog-re-1-John-3-9-KJV

 

[Jacob]

There are some on this forum who assert that those in the Body of Christ are not born again.

What evidence can anyone give one way or the other?

Believers in God are believers in God AND His Christ (His Anointed).

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Not if you can't understand that context determines the precise meaning of words and that the same words does not have the IDENTICAL meaning everywhere that it's found.

Then why do you not tell me what the Greek word translated "begotten" means according to the "context" where Paul tells those in the Body the following?:

"for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel" (1 Cor.4:15).​

In what sense were these Christians in the Body of Christ "begotten" through the gospel?

Begotten there does NOT mean "born again".

Then what does it mean there?

Was Jesus "born again"?

Of course He wasn't but the Greek word translated "begotten" in the following verse is different from the Greek word translated "begotten" at 1 Corinthians 4:15:

"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten (prōtotokos) of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood" (Rev.1:5).​

"for in Christ Jesus I have begotten (gennaō) you through the gospel" (1 Cor.4:15).​

You are careless with the Word of God and it shows. I have answered you so will you give us your interpretation of the meaning of the Greek word gennaō as it is used in its "context" at 1 Corinthians 4:15?

Or are you going to continue to play hide and seek?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Ezekiel 11 KJV
17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord God; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel. 18 And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence. 19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:20 that they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Yes, they were to be His people in the following sense if they kept the law:

"Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation" (Ex.19:5-6).

The Lord Jesus told the Jews that none of them kept the law but those who "believed" received eternal life, as witnessed by the words of the Lord Jesus which He spoke to the Jews who lived under the law:

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (Jn.11:25-26).​

Then He asked the following question and we know your answer:

"Believest thou this? "​

 

[john w]

I answered you and you did not point out anything which I said that is in error. Instead you call me a "wacko bible blender." But what else can anyone expect from someone who insists that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from "works" despite what we read here:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:16).​

Now it is your time to play hide and seek so that you won't have to actually address what is said there.

Those wacko bible blenders, who shout, "It all says the same thing!!!"

1 John 3:9 KJV Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


1 John 5:18 KJV We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Ezekiel 11 KJV
17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord God; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel. 18 And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence. 19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:20 that they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...KJV-and-clearing-up-the-fog-re-1-John-3-9-KJV

 

[john w]

Then why do you not tell me what the Greek word translated "begotten" means according to the "context" where Paul tells those in the Body the following?:

"for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel" (1 Cor.4:15).​

In what sense were these Christians in the Body of Christ "begotten" through the gospel?




Then what does it mean there?



Of course He wasn't but the Greek word translated "begotten" in the following verse is different from the Greek word translated "begotten" at 1 Corinthians 4:15:

"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten (prōtotokos) of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood" (Rev.1:5).​

"for in Christ Jesus I have begotten (gennaō) you through the gospel" (1 Cor.4:15).​

You are careless with the Word of God and it shows. I have answered you so will you give us your interpretation of the meaning of the Greek word gennaō as it is used in its "context" at 1 Corinthians 4:15?

Or are you going to continue to play hide and seek?

So it is not good theology to discuss the meaning of Greek words? ...Why does no one want to discuss what Paul was actually saying when he used the Greek word translated "rebirth" in this verse?:................I don't know who told you that discussing the meaning of Greek words is bad theology but I would suggest to you that you stop listening to whoever it was who told you that.

John 3 KJV
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


John 3:3 KJV....Strong's numbers indicating the Greek words:

Jesus <2424> answered <611> (5662) and <2532> said <2036> (5627) unto him <846>, Verily <281>, verily <281>, I say <3004> (5719) unto thee <4671>, Except <3362> a man <5100> be born <1080> (5686) again <509>, he cannot <1410> (5736) <3756> see <1492> (5629) the kingdom <932> of God <2316>.


From "The Greek" words in Strong's, to "The English:"

Jesus answered and bid them Amen, Amen, I tell thee, If not anything bringforth from the first he cannot perceive the kingdom of the godly.

 

[john w]

I answered you and you did not point out anything which I said that is in error. Instead you call me a "wacko bible blender." But what else can anyone expect from someone who insists that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from "works" despite what we read here:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:16).​

Now it is your time to play hide and seek so that you won't have to actually address what is said there.

Read/deleted.

I only engage bible believers, not bible correctors/agnostics/mystics.


Take your seat, and stuff your "the Greek," as you cannot read it, speak it, understand it, write it, fraud, and you would not know the difference between Kojak, and "Jimmy the Greek."

To demonstrate how much of a windbag, pseudo "scholar," and con artist Jer is, as are all these "the Greek says...." scammers, tell us, Jer: What "the Greek" is James referring to here?:

James 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

The "the Greek" con artist is GOOGling the net as I post this.....

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Those wacko bible blenders, who shout, "It all says the same thing!!!"

I answered you and you did not point out anything which I said that is in error. Instead you call me a "wacko bible blender." But what else can anyone expect from someone who insists that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from "works" despite what we read here:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:16).​

Now it is your time to play hide and seek so that you won't have to actually address what is said there.

Ezekiel 11 KJV
17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord God; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel. 18 And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence. 19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:20 that they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Yes, they were to be His people in the following sense if they kept the law:

"Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation" (Ex.19:5-6).

The Lord Jesus told the Jews that none of them kept the law but those who "believed" received eternal life, as witnessed by the words of the Lord Jesus which He spoke to the Jews who lived under the law:

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (Jn.11:25-26).​

Then He asked the following question and we know your answer:

"Believest thou this? "​