Can anybody quote the scripture that states our salvation in Christ is dependent on believing that the Earth is flat?
Biblical Flat Enclosed Earth and Firmament
- Thread starter patrick jane
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nikolai_42
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Patrick, where conspiracy theories abound, atheism thrives. Just read Isaiah :
For the Lord spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying,
Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.
Sanctify the Lord of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
Isaiah 8:11-13
Giving heed to conspiracy theories tends towards doubting anything you can't prove with your own eyes (or the assertions of others who thrive on conspiracies as well). It doesn't encourage faith in God, but rather starves it. The line between heeding conspiracies and paranoia can be very thin. And paranoia can be a judgment of God :
And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.
Leviticus 26:17
And upon them that are left alive of you I will send a faintness into their hearts in the lands of their enemies; and the sound of a shaken leaf shall chase them; and they shall flee, as fleeing from a sword; and they shall fall when none pursueth.
Leviticus 26:36
Giving heed to many conspiracies, paranoia and rampant irrationality are signs of fear that are evidence of judgment. I don't say this to say any specific person is under judgment but I know something of the conspiratorial mindset, It isn't content to rest on a single questionable fact that hints at (even possibly true) conspiracy. But it needs more and more food for its questioning of everything. There is that gnostic spiral where you get deeper and deeper into the more hidden knowledge - and only those who are awakened to it can have. That spiral drills downward without end. It is exactly the opposite to this :
Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.
Trust ye in the Lord for ever: for in the Lord Jehovah is everlasting strength:
Isaiah 26:3-4
And as for FE being the biblical, original, "faith-based" idea, I think you'll find that it was more of a reaction against the rationalism of the enlightenment than it was hidden knowledge. See this quote :
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No not at all, FE doesn't change or affect my beliefs, doctrine or faith in any negative way. In fact, I see positive change and feel stronger in my belief and faith, closer to God and more certain of reality.
I have piles of testimonies fro many former unbelievers and current believers available and I've posted some already. I'm amazed at times by the total disdain and ridicule, advice, warnings and general negative attitude towards any mention or belief that it's possible according to scripture AND evidence. Even without God's word I would think it's possible based on the evidence.
You're way behind CM, I have stated numerous times and maybe in the OP (or I should have in the OP), that FE is not a faith or a doctrine and has nothing to do with salvation. Nobody has ever said FE is necessary for ANYTHING. It's a matter of it being possible or not according to scripture and evidence. NADA to do with salvation or doctrine. Do you have information that says otherwise?
At about 50 minutes he talks about electromagnetic force that affects the earth, quantum physics and related things. @Clete @JudgeRightly @nikolai_42
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nikolai_42
Well-known member
Were a flat earth to not tend to, foster, and encourage other conspiracy theories I would say it is just one of those things that doesn't matter. But the fact that it does is what troubles me. And you've said this has nothing to do with salvation or doctrine but in this response you've said it does affect your faith. The graphics I "quoted" above imply very directly that this is a matter of faith and doctrine and that those who hold a global view of the earth are (essentially) deceived idolators. That's why I make the Isaiah 8 connection.
So why are you so willing to die on this mole hill?
So what's he say about it?
Look, you've gotta understand that I am fully persuaded, primarily by the absolute ridiculous nonsense that has posted on these threads, that flat-earth people are a delusional bunch of crack pots that aren't worth the time it would take to watch a two hour long video. I can pretty much tell you right now that it isn't going to happen unless you do one amazing sales job on the importance of the information presented in the video. That cannot happen because you mention my name in a post. You're going to have to give me the gist of it yourself and even then it would take quite a lot to overcome the emotional inertia involved in getting me to take one single syllable of anything related to flat-earthism seriously enough to spend two hours watching a YouTube video.
And don't start crying about how I'm being lazy or whatever else. You guys have blown every remnant of credibility you ever had with me. If you want me to engage a specific argument then make it yourself. I'm done with responding to the rest of this silliness you guys seem expert at farming off of the internet.
Clete
The most direct way in which this issue has something to do with salvation is in the effect it has on unbelievers who hear crackpot Christians spouting this conspiratorial nonsense as though it were part of the Christian faith. Many flat-earthers very definitely connect their flat-earthism with their Christian faith and that will cause others to reject Christianity. I've posted a series of videos that smash flat-earthism to smithereens and throughout the video, the guy takes every opportunity he can find to associate flat-earth retards with the bible and with God, which he calls, "their holy book" and "their magic sky wizard". He's clearly an atheist and hates Christianity and uses flat-earth stupidity as a back door way of discrediting the Christian faith. And I have to say that he's pretty effective at it. If flat-earthism was actually a Christian teaching, it would falsify the religion and I'd drop it like a hot rock as I'm sure many people have already done in error and to their eternal demise.
Clete
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I thought it was obvious that starting at the 50 minute mark was clearly not not a 2 hour video. He talks about it for several minutes that's all. You're the one that told folks they must watch the videos in the the electric thread. Personally, many might think you're delusional from that thread. Move along, you have a one track mind and can't seriously discuss anything from what I've seen of you.
And what do folks like freelight, Mormons, JWs calvinists, and all the other questionable denominations and teachers of false doctrines do to "make you look bad"? If you're so "worried" about what unbelievers "think" about your faith then you're nothing but a man pleaser.
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"Fostering" conspiracy theories is a risk I suppose. No more of a risk than countless other beliefs and inclinations. Conspiracies are real, they happen and are happening. I find that picture of Jesus, crosses around the neck, praying to Mary and statues etc, is more troubling to me than whether one believes in a globe or THINKS flat earth is POSSIBLE. I see the mission you rubes are on. Discredit and demonize flat earth. There's no other goal you, CM, Clete, JR, Rd, and a few others have. Get lives folks, spend your time on worthwhile things and let others believe what they want.
FE has absolutely NOTHING to do with salvation as much as you tell yourself and the world that it does. Focus on the real damaging things to Christianity for once. You think FE is so harmful to the faith? That's more than asinine.
Here we see that Isaiah knows what a ball is but uses "circle" to describe the earth. Nowhere in the Bible is earth referred to as a ball shape or a globe in any way shape or form. Not to mention the spreading out of the heavens like a curtain and a tent. Clearly speaking of an enclosed earth and cosmos, IMO.
Isaiah 40:22 KJV -
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Isaiah 22:18 KJV -
He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.
Isaiah 40:22 KJV -
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Isaiah 22:18 KJV -
He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.
Is Flat Earth a form of "Christian Gnosticism"..???
Is Flat Earth a form of "Christian Gnosticism"..???My humble response to a heinously false assertion made by Christian apologist Mike Boehm and Creationist Astronomer Danny Faulkner: http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo...
12 minutes
Is Flat Earth a form of "Christian Gnosticism"..???My humble response to a heinously false assertion made by Christian apologist Mike Boehm and Creationist Astronomer Danny Faulkner: http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo...
12 minutes
nikolai_42
Well-known member
But aren’t we supposedly buying in to the Luciferian deception by adhering to a globe? Again, the suspicion and paranoia that comes with questioning even basic scientific laws is a real concern. If you design a system without really fully understanding every component of that system you are trusting in the role of chance in design. That is essentially what evolution is modeled on. Something works because you happen to get it right ( eventually) and not because of Intelligence behind the Design.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
"The heliocentric "universe" requires scientific "experts" to reveal the true nature of the cosmos, and theological "experts" to explain why the Bible doesn't really mean what God says at face value. The Biblical Cosmology and Flat Earth requires no special privileged knowledge, either in scripture or through special scientific expertise".
It's almost as if in your little word there are no conspiracies, past present or future. There's not much evil out there and evil certainly doesn't work together to advance satan's agenda either knowingly or unawares. It's just a great big blue ball flying and spinning through "deep space" for 4.9 billion years straight, a GOOD and loving, HONEST "planet" with nothing nefarious going on ever. We're civilized now.
You mentioned the word reel and the "you can't overlook that" or something. I can't overlook the hundred plus scriptures that equate an enclosed flat earth and cosmos. I am troubled by folks that blindly accept everything they're told and all the "official" stories. We simply think differently on this, I'm not overly concerned about it.
BTW, you are "buying in to the deception" but it's not your fault and I don't think it's a sin to be deceived. :idunno:
1 Corinthians 1:18-31 KJV -
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
Romans 1:18-30 KJV -
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
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[MENTION=5671]nikolai_42[/MENTION] - I saw you post an images of the famous V2 rocket showing curvature but I've looked in 3 threads and can't find it.
'The Gift of Looking Stupid' - Flat Earth & the Mark of the Beast...
12 minutes - FE haters should watch
12 minutes - FE haters should watch
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