This thread is making TOL history. TOL's very first full length theological work..a book, a commentary by Tams of the bora. If it were divided into 2 volumes one volume is already complete.
Magnifico
Magnifico
Bible Study - the Book of Job
- Thread starter Tambora
- Start date
Actually...Psalmist's thread could run into a few volumes.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Only a novice in righteousness would attribute those words to someone who God agrees with.
Tambora has pointed out so many times on this thread that such an attitude toward Job was wrong and evil.
When you are treated like that yourself you will think it is of God and be in utter confusion.
2Co 11:19 For you put up with fools gladly, since you yourselves are wise!
2Co 11:20 For you put up with it if one brings you into bondage, if one devours you, if one takes from you, if one exalts himself, if one strikes you on the face.
Isa 58:4 Indeed you fast for strife and debate, And to strike with the fist of wickedness. You will not fast as you do this day, To make your voice heard on high.
Listen,
There are many among believers who think Elihu was speaking for God and they do the same as he did, and think nothing of it.
They, like Elihu, are not friends of Job and never will be restored with Job, unless they repent.
LA
I like to see the Book of Job through the lens of the great wisdom tradition of the Bible. Books like Job, Solomon, Proverbs and Ecclesiastes are part of that tradition. It is characteristic of our de fault world of ethics and human existence.
I also see Jesus' unique role as totally dislocating our received world view. He turned normal, wisdom-based reality on its head. And got killed for it to boot.
Wisdom was personified by Sophia, the female helpmeet of God. There are some explicit references, as I remember, of Jesus being connected to that tradition.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
One last post here and you and Tambora will do well to remember this.
Because Job was righteous does not mean he was perfectly sinless.:nono:
Remember at the end of this story Job repents.
1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said ,
2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
4 Hear , I beseech thee, and I will speak : I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
Carry on.
Yes.
Job was in right standing with God positionaly which made him righteous, but that does not mean ones faith is perfect until perfected through many sufferings ( because of the Word) in and from the world including ones own flesh and the fleshiness of family and friends, especially new and wayward believers who think they are the best thing to come along since sliced bread.
Elihu was none of the above.
LA
ttruscott
Well-known member
If GOD wanted us to know that Job was sinless on earth, how could He say it better than Job 1:1 In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil.
8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”
Yet we also know that Job repents for being a sinner, as you mention. So, to me the answer seems simple: though he never sinned on earth he was still a guilty sinner needing repentance. That is, either he was created to be a sinner by GOD by having him conceived as human (an impossibility in that GOD cannot do or create evil) or he chose to become a sinner by his free will before he was sown into the earth by being conceived as human.
Either way he had a terrible job to do exposing Satan's most evil depravity and I will shake his hand for a job well done when we meet next.
Peace, Ted
Yes.
The life of Christ mainly before His baptism.
Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
The life of Christ mainly before His baptism.
Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
The main point is a question: If God is good, then why does God permit suffering?
Job frames the question with the help of the Devil (who is not the personification of evil, but more like a "counselor/lawyer" for God).
And God answers Job out of the whirlwind.
brinny
New member
Job was perfect, God said so.
The question being asked is not concerning Job's faith but concerning Job's love, "Does Job serve Thee for nought? take now from him the hedge Thou hast placed around him and Job will curse Thee to Thy face"
Job's faith was never in question, the question is did He serve God out of pure love or in order to be blessed? God proved through Job that His righteous ones will serve Him and cling to Him no matter what [God Himself sustaining]
Job is the greatest health and wealth preacher in the bible...while God's hedge was around him he healed and wealed, when God's hedge was removed Satan was able to inflict all manner of sickness and evil.
When Job's captivity was turned and God hedged him about again Job healed and wealed twice as good as he did before.
God is good, God does good
Satan is evil, he only does evil.
The thief has come only to steal and to kill and to destroy you but I AM come that you might have life and that you might have it more abundantly.
Now God's testing of Job could only happen if Job was perfect, he had to be perfect. If Job's friends could have found a sin in Job, if Job himself could have detected some secret sin then THAT SIN would have been the explanation for the evil that had befallen him.
Evil enters human experience through sin.
Now in speaking about perfection we have to know what perfection is and what it is based upon. Perfection is what God reckons to be perfect. If God says I am perfect then I am. Perfection is not in us but in God. The basis of man's perfection is REDEMPTION.
Job's most glorious proclamation is this " I KNOW that my Redeemer lives" Friends put your faith in God's redemption today, in His Redeemer....you can get anything you want from God. .... total victory.
The question being asked is not concerning Job's faith but concerning Job's love, "Does Job serve Thee for nought? take now from him the hedge Thou hast placed around him and Job will curse Thee to Thy face"
Job's faith was never in question, the question is did He serve God out of pure love or in order to be blessed? God proved through Job that His righteous ones will serve Him and cling to Him no matter what [God Himself sustaining]
Job is the greatest health and wealth preacher in the bible...while God's hedge was around him he healed and wealed, when God's hedge was removed Satan was able to inflict all manner of sickness and evil.
When Job's captivity was turned and God hedged him about again Job healed and wealed twice as good as he did before.
God is good, God does good
Satan is evil, he only does evil.
The thief has come only to steal and to kill and to destroy you but I AM come that you might have life and that you might have it more abundantly.
Now God's testing of Job could only happen if Job was perfect, he had to be perfect. If Job's friends could have found a sin in Job, if Job himself could have detected some secret sin then THAT SIN would have been the explanation for the evil that had befallen him.
Evil enters human experience through sin.
Now in speaking about perfection we have to know what perfection is and what it is based upon. Perfection is what God reckons to be perfect. If God says I am perfect then I am. Perfection is not in us but in God. The basis of man's perfection is REDEMPTION.
Job's most glorious proclamation is this " I KNOW that my Redeemer lives" Friends put your faith in God's redemption today, in His Redeemer....you can get anything you want from God. .... total victory.
6days
New member
Awesome thread and posts Tambora. Sorry I totally missed this thread until today.
Questions...
1. How could Job's friends have known correct doctrine?
2. Job's suffering seems to be caused by Satan, permitted by God. Was this a 'one off' situation? (Does Satan seek permission from God to wreak havoc in OUR lives?)
2a. Do we have suffering that is not directly a supernatural cause?
IE. Do we have sickness, unexpected deaths etc etc that are simply a result of living in a sinful world?
Apologies if those questions were already answered.
6days
New member
The devil is a counselor/ lawyer for God? :dizzy:
Am I understanding you wrong?
Glad you joined in.
I meant for this to be a chapter by chapter study. As you can see, it got off track and folks started jumping all around the book instead of doing it chapter by chapter.
Well, it's not so much that their doctrine was wrong, but that they misapplied doctrine.
In other words, their doctrine that God punishes wicked deeds is true. They thought that since this doctrine is true, then it must be true of why Job was being punished by God.
They were stuck, and could not see past that point.
But the fact is ..... it was not God punishing Job for a wicked deed he had done.
The term 'one off' is not one I am familiar with. What does it mean?
I would say so.
The sun shines for, and the rain falls for the righteous and unrighteous alike. (Matthew 5:45)
Has nothing to do with whether they are good or bad.