I look forward to it.
Quick question Tambora whats the story behind your choice of avatar anything signaled by it ?
In deed there is.
Bible Study - the Book of Job
- Thread starter Tambora
- Start date
I look forward to it.
Quick question Tambora whats the story behind your choice of avatar anything signaled by it ?
In deed there is.
Jason0047
Member
Dear T:
This reminds me of the passages about the fact that...
There are vessels of honor and dishonor...
2 Timothy 2:20-21 - "But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work."
An example of a vessel of dishonor (that can be used for God's glory) would be the pharaoh of Egypt...
Romans 9:17 - "For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth."
And an example of those righteous believers in Christ who actually have works to show their faith will be vessels of honor (For God's glory)...
1 Corinthians 3:10-15 - "According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
No.
Several of us are doing a rootin tootin old west theme for a couple of weeks.
It's about time to change it again.
I think folks are going to notice a lot in Job that will remind them of other passages.
I've pointed out a few, but there are tons of them.
I've never really tried to count how many there are.
Chapter 10 conclusion
Chapter 10 conclusion
Not knowing “why” can be depressive and confusing.
From anything like: why did my boyfriend or husband leave me, or why did this cancer have to happen to my little child, etc., etc., etc.
Ever been there, where you thought that if you only knew “why”, you might could handle it better?
I’ve been there.
Job was there too.
Job just got finished remembering how it used to be.
But now, Job is depressed and confused as to why things have changed.
And why doesn’t God answer to tell him “why”?
Job has already accepted that God has the right to do anything to his creation, to lift up or destroy.
Job realizes he is in a state of destruction. His body is rotting away. His strength has faded.
But, oh, wouldn’t it be nice to only know “why” God saw fit to make my final be in this condition.
A life of pain and despair is nothing to hope for. Death would be a sweet release, to fade away into obscurity from the condition he was now in.
Chapter 10 conclusion
Not knowing “why” can be depressive and confusing.
From anything like: why did my boyfriend or husband leave me, or why did this cancer have to happen to my little child, etc., etc., etc.
Ever been there, where you thought that if you only knew “why”, you might could handle it better?
I’ve been there.
Job was there too.
Job just got finished remembering how it used to be.
Job 10 KJV
(12) Thou hast granted me life and favour, and thy visitation hath preserved my spirit.
(12) Thou hast granted me life and favour, and thy visitation hath preserved my spirit.
But now, Job is depressed and confused as to why things have changed.
And why doesn’t God answer to tell him “why”?
Job has already accepted that God has the right to do anything to his creation, to lift up or destroy.
Job realizes he is in a state of destruction. His body is rotting away. His strength has faded.
But, oh, wouldn’t it be nice to only know “why” God saw fit to make my final be in this condition.
A life of pain and despair is nothing to hope for. Death would be a sweet release, to fade away into obscurity from the condition he was now in.
(13) And these things hast thou hid in thine heart: I know that this is with thee.
(14) If I sin, then thou markest me, and thou wilt not acquit me from mine iniquity.
(15) If I be wicked, woe unto me; and if I be righteous, yet will I not lift up my head. I am full of confusion; therefore see thou mine affliction;
(16) For it increaseth. Thou huntest me as a fierce lion: and again thou shewest thyself marvellous upon me.
(17) Thou renewest thy witnesses against me, and increasest thine indignation upon me; changes and war are against me.
(18) Wherefore then hast thou brought me forth out of the womb? Oh that I had given up the ghost, and no eye had seen me!
(19) I should have been as though I had not been; I should have been carried from the womb to the grave.
(20) Are not my days few? cease then, and let me alone, that I may take comfort a little,
(21) Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and the shadow of death;
(22) A land of darkness, as darkness itself; and of the shadow of death, without any order, and where the light is as darkness.
(14) If I sin, then thou markest me, and thou wilt not acquit me from mine iniquity.
(15) If I be wicked, woe unto me; and if I be righteous, yet will I not lift up my head. I am full of confusion; therefore see thou mine affliction;
(16) For it increaseth. Thou huntest me as a fierce lion: and again thou shewest thyself marvellous upon me.
(17) Thou renewest thy witnesses against me, and increasest thine indignation upon me; changes and war are against me.
(18) Wherefore then hast thou brought me forth out of the womb? Oh that I had given up the ghost, and no eye had seen me!
(19) I should have been as though I had not been; I should have been carried from the womb to the grave.
(20) Are not my days few? cease then, and let me alone, that I may take comfort a little,
(21) Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and the shadow of death;
(22) A land of darkness, as darkness itself; and of the shadow of death, without any order, and where the light is as darkness.
you have a bright smile
I have had a fair bit of drama in my life of late and I do believe to was Satanic
Do you think those persons who persecute Gods children are aware they are being used by Satan ?
What if they are proffessing christians, do you think that their actions would be an indicator of their acctual status in regards of identifying them as wolves ?
Or if they became aware of it by secondary means, so to speak, that the knowledge that they were in fact wolves would that disturb them ?
Because a lot of the wolves dont realize they are wolves until something happens to reveal the knowledge of that to their minds ?
What do you think ?
Funny that...this has always been my bedrock scripture the LORD anchored me with this one right from the beggining.
It seem almost seems like fate that I should find it attached in that way...I mean Gods providence. A sign of comfort to me I think. Yes
:think:
Jason0047
Member
Dear T:
Well, I think there is an important connection between Job 10:9, and Romans 9:17-24, Isaiah 64:8-9, Jeremiah 18:1-11, 2 Timothy 2:20-21, 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. After reflecting upon the thought within these passages, I believe that the entire book of Job is an example or lesson to us Christians in how God is making us into a higher vessel of honor that is more fitting for His use.
So when trouble comes our way where we might ask the question "why" as Job had done in Job 10:18, I personally believe it is for the purpose of God making us into a greater vessel of honor for His glory.
In fact, do you remember when Gideon used the element of surprise by smashing clay jars with torches inside them and by blowing trumpets when he attacked the Midianites? (Judges 7:19-21)
Now, you probably are aware of this, but for those people out there who are reading this who are not: What do we suppose the purpose was in behind Gideon using clay jars with torches in them (along with the sounding of the trumpets)? Well, the answer is given to us in 2 Corinthians chapter 4. For it basically tells us that we Christians are the clay jars; Jesus is the light that shines within us as being fragile earthen vessels; and our testimony to His greatness is the trumpet call we are asked to sound!
2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us.
2 Corinthians 4:5-6 - "For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
2 Corinthians 4:1 - "Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not"
1 Corinthians 4:10-12 - "We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised. Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it"
2 Corinthians 4:8-10 - "We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body."
Mark 16:15 - "And he said unto them, "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature"."
In other words, I believe Job was a vessel that was being broken for the Master's use so that He could shine forth the light of Christ and His message.
For Job was being shaped and molded in his suffering into being a greater vessel of honor. God used Job's friends as an example of being a vessel of dishonor. Yet even Job's friends had become vessels of honor by the end of this true story because they repented before the Lord. Also, God's examples of declaring his creation (i.e. vessels of honor) to Job was all to shine forth God's glory. For even the blessings of Job that came back to him in the end were vessels of honor that glorified God's goodness and His Almighty power.
Anyways, I hope you find what I written here insightful in some way.
Please have a great day within the Lord.
And may blessings, love, and peace be unto you from the Lord our God this fine day.
With loving kindness to you in Christ:
Sincerely,
~Jason.
...
Article Source used (That is a really really good read):
http://www.jesusplusnothing.com/studies/online/judges8.htm
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Jason0047
Member
Check out "Broken Praise" (Job)- Todd Smith Video at the Following Link Here...
http://www.worshiphousemedia.com/mini-movies/34529/Broken-Praise-The-Story
| "Job Suite" - Michael Card | |
| "Ecclesiastes" - Tim Hughes | |
Side Note:
Oh, and the "Broken Praise" (Job) song by Todd Smith Video is at the top left of the page when you click on the link above. Just ignore the purchase option to the right and click on the video to the left. You can set the video to full screen if desired. Also, the third video "Ecclesiastes" - by Tim Hughes will have a few moments of silence before the song actually begins. I chose this video in addition to the songs in Job because I felt it reflects some of the themes within Job. Anyways, I hope you enjoy the videos; And may God bless you!
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Jason0047
Member
Job Chapter 10 Verse 9: - Part 1:
Well, what I discovered to be really interesting is that Job 10:9 also refers back to Job 1:21. For just as Job says he was made from the clay and will return to dust again in chapter 10, he says in the 1st chapter that he is naked from his mother's womb and will be naked again when he returns there.
Job 10:9 KJ2 - "Remember, I beseech you, that you have made me as the clay; and will you bring me into dust again?"
Job 1:21 KJ2 - "And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return there: the LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD."
In fact, to elaborate further on Job 1:21: This nakedness being described here is by the fact that he has just lost about nearly everything on this Earth he cared about. He feels naked as just as naked as he was as a baby when he came out of his mother's womb.
Now, one possibility in view here is that just as Job came out of his mother's womb, he will metaphorically return to her mother's womb in the sense that he is returning to his mother's loving embrace and care up in Heaven. For it would make sense that Job wanted to be back in his mother's protection (i.e. womb). For it was a place that was safe and caring. Which echoes his thoughts that he wished that he could have died before being born, as mentioned in Job 10:18. For Job clearly felt naked, just as the moment when he came out of his mother's womb at birth and just as naked as he will feel when he feels his physical body will die. For the idea of being back in his mother's womb and dying before his birth would give him comfort of the loss he is feeling now.
Anyhow, whether this was the intent Job had or not when he said these words in Job 1:21 is not entirely clear. However, what is clear is that Job's nakedness in birth and death is likened to the nakedness he was feeling at his recent loss. A loss that reminded Job that he will not be able to take anything with him when he dies. Which is echoed in...
Ecclesiastes 5:15 - "As he came forth of his mother's womb, naked shall he return to go as he came, and shall take nothing of his labour, which he may carry away in his hand."
1 Timothy 6:7 - "For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out."
Well, what I discovered to be really interesting is that Job 10:9 also refers back to Job 1:21. For just as Job says he was made from the clay and will return to dust again in chapter 10, he says in the 1st chapter that he is naked from his mother's womb and will be naked again when he returns there.
Job 10:9 KJ2 - "Remember, I beseech you, that you have made me as the clay; and will you bring me into dust again?"
Job 1:21 KJ2 - "And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return there: the LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD."
In fact, to elaborate further on Job 1:21: This nakedness being described here is by the fact that he has just lost about nearly everything on this Earth he cared about. He feels naked as just as naked as he was as a baby when he came out of his mother's womb.
Now, one possibility in view here is that just as Job came out of his mother's womb, he will metaphorically return to her mother's womb in the sense that he is returning to his mother's loving embrace and care up in Heaven. For it would make sense that Job wanted to be back in his mother's protection (i.e. womb). For it was a place that was safe and caring. Which echoes his thoughts that he wished that he could have died before being born, as mentioned in Job 10:18. For Job clearly felt naked, just as the moment when he came out of his mother's womb at birth and just as naked as he will feel when he feels his physical body will die. For the idea of being back in his mother's womb and dying before his birth would give him comfort of the loss he is feeling now.
Anyhow, whether this was the intent Job had or not when he said these words in Job 1:21 is not entirely clear. However, what is clear is that Job's nakedness in birth and death is likened to the nakedness he was feeling at his recent loss. A loss that reminded Job that he will not be able to take anything with him when he dies. Which is echoed in...
Ecclesiastes 5:15 - "As he came forth of his mother's womb, naked shall he return to go as he came, and shall take nothing of his labour, which he may carry away in his hand."
1 Timothy 6:7 - "For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out."
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There have also been some that compare "mother's womb" as being the womb/interpart of the earth, and use this verse as one to support it.
Psalms 139 KJV
(15) My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
And thus are said to return to dust whence we came.(15) My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Jason0047
Member
Dear T:
Yeah, I recently read this in Warren W. Wiersbe's Commentary. Which I think is one of the best Bible commentaries out there, by the way.
http://www.amazon.com/Wiersbe-Bible-Commentary-Vol-Commentaries/dp/0781445418/
Now, on the one hand, I can sort of see how lower parts of the Earth could be a reference to a mother's womb or uterus metaphorically here because verse 13 says, "For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb." And then in verse 15, it mentions that David was "wrought in the lowest parts of the earth." For a mother could say to her child,
"You were wrought in the lowest parts of my body (i.e. the womb)."
So just as a person is wrought in the lower parts of their mother's womb at birth, they will then return to the lowest parts (i.e. womb) of the Earth at death. Naked have they arrived and naked will they return, taking nothing of this world with them.
On the other hand, while I do not disregard the possibility that the Scriptures loosely describe the Earth like a womb here in the Psalms (because one can make the parallel), I believe Psalm 139:15, Psalm 139:16, and Job 10:9 is primarily a reference to the creation of both Job and David's hidden pre-planned being (i.e. genetic code) in Adam back when he was being formed out of the earth or clay in the Garden of Eden. In fact, it is funny you brought this up, I was already planning Psalm 139:13-16 to be the 2nd part of my brief study here on Job 10:9.
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Jason0047
Member
Job Chapter 10 Verse 9: - Part 2:
I believe there is an interesting connection between Psalm 139:15-16, Job 10:9, and the formation of Adam & Eve back in the Garden. However, before I make my second point about Job 10:9, I want to quickly touch upon the first two verses leading up to verse 15 in Psalm 139 on how they connect in with the story of Job.
Psalm 139:13 - "For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb."
The word "reins" means the inward part, the mind, the soul, the seat of the desires, affections, and passions (See Jeremiah 11:20, Psalm 7:9, and Job 19:27); And the word "possessed" means to create or originate (See Genesis 14:19, Genesis 14:22, and Proverbs 8:22). So the Lord was designing the core of David's soul. And the Lord covered David within his mother's womb. The word "covered" here being translated as "woven together".
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5526&t=KJV
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7069&t=KJV
So David's soul and body were both being knitted together here for the first time inside his mother.
This echoes the words of Job when he said, "Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews." ~ (Job 10:11)
Psalm 139:14 - "I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well."
By the end of the book of Job, we get a glimpse of the fearful, wonderful, and marvelous works of God when the Lord talks to Job about all the mighty things He has created.
In fact, the words "wonderfully made" here in verse 14 above is echoed by Job towards the end of his story when he said, "therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not."
___________________________________________________
Alright, now onto my point in Job 10:9 and Psalm 139:15-16:
Psalm 139:15 - "My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."
Now when we look at verse 15 above here, we can see that David makes the remark that he was wrought in the lowest parts of the Earth. Now, how can David be covered or knitted together in his mother's womb as mentioned in verse 13 and yet also say that he was formed in the lower parts of the Earth? How can both of these statements be true?
Well, I believe that David here is referring to the dormant pre-planned design of his being (i.e. his genetic code) from within the clay during the formation of Adam.
For it is the same line of thought that Job loosely expresses in...
Job 10:9 - "Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay; and wilt thou bring me into dust again?"
Now, it is true. It is obvious that Job is speaking metaphorically here that he was made out of the clay, but it is also equally true that his great great great grandfather Adam was made out of clay and Job was a descendant of him. So if Adam was made out of clay, then this would mean that Job's origin can be traced back to the clay in the Garden of Eden. For the flesh of Job was the same flesh of Adam and Adam's flesh came from the ground.
For if Psalm 139:15 and Job 10:9 are to be read literally, then it is possible that both Job and David's origins had been secretly formed within the lower parts of the Earth before they were even born. Their genetic make up of their bodies pre-planned within the clay during the creation of Adam. However, whether or not their genetic code was in Adam or not, their genetic code was pre-written in a book, though.
Psalm 139:16 - "Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them."
For according to verse 16 above, God had seen everyone's substance when there was yet none of them. Yet we know God does not create any new genetic code or DNA today, though. For all the genetic code that makes up the entire human race had to be created (Whether existing in a base form or as a hidden detailed code for each person) within the six days of creation because God's Word in...
Genesis 2:1 states that, "...The heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them."
Now, I am not trying to make a doctrine out of this or anything, but if it is true that we were pre-planned in detail genetically within Adam in some way, this would mean that the genetic code that makes up the entire human race for each person was in Adam that was formed out of the clay.
I mean think about that for a second. If this is true, then all the genetic information that is not only in one human body (Which is a lot) would be tucked away or hidden in Adam but all of the genetic code that would make up the entire human race would be within him. All that genetic information pre-written in a book and or possibly hidden within the genetic base code of Adam from a mere lump of clay. It is practically endless to think about. Just as endless as it is in counting the stars of the sky.
Genesis 26:4 - "And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;"
Genesis 22:17 - "That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore."
Side Note:
Oh, and I find it interesting that Levi was in Abraham's loins when Abraham met Melchisedec, too.
Hebrews 7:9-10 - "And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him."
I believe there is an interesting connection between Psalm 139:15-16, Job 10:9, and the formation of Adam & Eve back in the Garden. However, before I make my second point about Job 10:9, I want to quickly touch upon the first two verses leading up to verse 15 in Psalm 139 on how they connect in with the story of Job.
Psalm 139:13 - "For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb."
The word "reins" means the inward part, the mind, the soul, the seat of the desires, affections, and passions (See Jeremiah 11:20, Psalm 7:9, and Job 19:27); And the word "possessed" means to create or originate (See Genesis 14:19, Genesis 14:22, and Proverbs 8:22). So the Lord was designing the core of David's soul. And the Lord covered David within his mother's womb. The word "covered" here being translated as "woven together".
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5526&t=KJV
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7069&t=KJV
So David's soul and body were both being knitted together here for the first time inside his mother.
This echoes the words of Job when he said, "Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews." ~ (Job 10:11)
Psalm 139:14 - "I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well."
By the end of the book of Job, we get a glimpse of the fearful, wonderful, and marvelous works of God when the Lord talks to Job about all the mighty things He has created.
In fact, the words "wonderfully made" here in verse 14 above is echoed by Job towards the end of his story when he said, "therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not."
___________________________________________________
Alright, now onto my point in Job 10:9 and Psalm 139:15-16:
Psalm 139:15 - "My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."
Now when we look at verse 15 above here, we can see that David makes the remark that he was wrought in the lowest parts of the Earth. Now, how can David be covered or knitted together in his mother's womb as mentioned in verse 13 and yet also say that he was formed in the lower parts of the Earth? How can both of these statements be true?
Well, I believe that David here is referring to the dormant pre-planned design of his being (i.e. his genetic code) from within the clay during the formation of Adam.
For it is the same line of thought that Job loosely expresses in...
Job 10:9 - "Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay; and wilt thou bring me into dust again?"
Now, it is true. It is obvious that Job is speaking metaphorically here that he was made out of the clay, but it is also equally true that his great great great grandfather Adam was made out of clay and Job was a descendant of him. So if Adam was made out of clay, then this would mean that Job's origin can be traced back to the clay in the Garden of Eden. For the flesh of Job was the same flesh of Adam and Adam's flesh came from the ground.
For if Psalm 139:15 and Job 10:9 are to be read literally, then it is possible that both Job and David's origins had been secretly formed within the lower parts of the Earth before they were even born. Their genetic make up of their bodies pre-planned within the clay during the creation of Adam. However, whether or not their genetic code was in Adam or not, their genetic code was pre-written in a book, though.
Psalm 139:16 - "Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them."
For according to verse 16 above, God had seen everyone's substance when there was yet none of them. Yet we know God does not create any new genetic code or DNA today, though. For all the genetic code that makes up the entire human race had to be created (Whether existing in a base form or as a hidden detailed code for each person) within the six days of creation because God's Word in...
Genesis 2:1 states that, "...The heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them."
Now, I am not trying to make a doctrine out of this or anything, but if it is true that we were pre-planned in detail genetically within Adam in some way, this would mean that the genetic code that makes up the entire human race for each person was in Adam that was formed out of the clay.
I mean think about that for a second. If this is true, then all the genetic information that is not only in one human body (Which is a lot) would be tucked away or hidden in Adam but all of the genetic code that would make up the entire human race would be within him. All that genetic information pre-written in a book and or possibly hidden within the genetic base code of Adam from a mere lump of clay. It is practically endless to think about. Just as endless as it is in counting the stars of the sky.
Genesis 26:4 - "And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;"
Genesis 22:17 - "That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore."
Side Note:
Oh, and I find it interesting that Levi was in Abraham's loins when Abraham met Melchisedec, too.
Hebrews 7:9-10 - "And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him."
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Chapter 11
Chapter 11
And now Zophar chimes in to add insult to injury.
While Eliphaz and Bildad kinda had a little tact and eased into accusing Job of sin, Zophar jumps on it like a chicken on a June bug!
Zophar accuses Job of being an outright liar!
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Zophar has overstated the words of Job, for Job has not claimed a pure doctrine; nor has he claimed that any man (including himself) can ever reach the cleanliness of God.
Zophar claimed that if God were to speak, He would show Job what a liar he was.
Well, unlike Zophar, we already know what God was saying about Job ---- that he was the most righteous man on earth. (Job 1:8)
God’s view of Job is in stark contrast to Zophar’s view of Job.
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Hmmm.
Since we already know that God saw Job as the most righteous man on earth; where does that leave Zophar?
If Job was deserving of what was happening to him, then Zophar should be suffering even more.
What is even more astounding is Zophar’s lack of compassion toward a friend.
I mean, come on. When a friend is in sorrow (for the loss of loved ones, or loss of financial means, or loss of health), is it really the time to start berating them with ……
“Well, all have sinned. All fall short. So whatever is happening to you isn’t near what you deserve.”
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Job has already said that the ways of God are far above the ways of man.
So, it is rather strange that Zophar would include such a statement in his argument against Job, when it was a point of agreement between them.
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It would be easier for a wild donkey to give birth to a man, than for a vain man to become wise as God.
Absolutely correct.
But Job has not claimed to be as wise as God.
Zophar is overstating the situation.
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Turn from your sin, Job, and all your troubles will pass as water under the bridge.
You will then be able to lift your head high again, and folks will again seek your counsel.
But if you do not turn from your sin, all you have to look forward to is death.
The 3 friends have all concluded that Job must have done something terribly wrong to be the object of such wrath.
The arguments they have laid out can be correct in certain situations.
But in this situation, the conclusion of their argument was wrong.
Job’s friend have misread the situation and come to faulty conclusion, even though their points can all be backed up by scripture.
Not all of scripture pertains to every individual in every situation.
Considering all scripture is a must, and rightly dividing scripture for each situation is a must.
And these 3 friends have chosen to accept only the portion of scripture that says the wicked receive wrath and the righteous receive blessing, but have totally disregarded the scripture (and life experience in general) that shows the righteous can also receive wrath or blessing.
It happened a lot with Israel.
While some of Israel were wicked, some of Israel were righteous. But both lost their kingdom and were held captive under the authority of the Babylonians.
Being righteous does not exclude you from suffering unjustly in this lifetime.
And judging by appearances does not always lead to the right conclusion.
Job is such an example.
Chapter 11
And now Zophar chimes in to add insult to injury.
While Eliphaz and Bildad kinda had a little tact and eased into accusing Job of sin, Zophar jumps on it like a chicken on a June bug!
Job 11 KJV
(1) Then answered Zophar the Naamathite, and said,
(2) Should not the multitude of words be answered? and should a man full of talk be justified?
(3) Should thy lies make men hold their peace? and when thou mockest, shall no man make thee ashamed?
(1) Then answered Zophar the Naamathite, and said,
(2) Should not the multitude of words be answered? and should a man full of talk be justified?
(3) Should thy lies make men hold their peace? and when thou mockest, shall no man make thee ashamed?
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(4) For thou hast said, My doctrine is pure, and I am clean in thine eyes.
(5) But oh that God would speak, and open his lips against thee;
(5) But oh that God would speak, and open his lips against thee;
Zophar claimed that if God were to speak, He would show Job what a liar he was.
Well, unlike Zophar, we already know what God was saying about Job ---- that he was the most righteous man on earth. (Job 1:8)
God’s view of Job is in stark contrast to Zophar’s view of Job.
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(6) And that he would shew thee the secrets of wisdom, that they are double to that which is! Know therefore that God exacteth of thee less than thine iniquity deserveth.
Since we already know that God saw Job as the most righteous man on earth; where does that leave Zophar?
If Job was deserving of what was happening to him, then Zophar should be suffering even more.
What is even more astounding is Zophar’s lack of compassion toward a friend.
I mean, come on. When a friend is in sorrow (for the loss of loved ones, or loss of financial means, or loss of health), is it really the time to start berating them with ……
“Well, all have sinned. All fall short. So whatever is happening to you isn’t near what you deserve.”
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(7) Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection?
(8) It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?
(9) The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.
(10) If he cut off, and shut up, or gather together, then who can hinder him?
(8) It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?
(9) The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.
(10) If he cut off, and shut up, or gather together, then who can hinder him?
So, it is rather strange that Zophar would include such a statement in his argument against Job, when it was a point of agreement between them.
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(11) For he knoweth vain men: he seeth wickedness also; will he not then consider it?
(12) For vain man would be wise, though man be born like a wild ***'s colt.
(12) For vain man would be wise, though man be born like a wild ***'s colt.
Absolutely correct.
But Job has not claimed to be as wise as God.
Zophar is overstating the situation.
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(13) If thou prepare thine heart, and stretch out thine hands toward him;
(14) If iniquity be in thine hand, put it far away, and let not wickedness dwell in thy tabernacles.
(15) For then shalt thou lift up thy face without spot; yea, thou shalt be stedfast, and shalt not fear:
(16) Because thou shalt forget thy misery, and remember it as waters that pass away:
(17) And thine age shall be clearer than the noonday; thou shalt shine forth, thou shalt be as the morning.
(18) And thou shalt be secure, because there is hope; yea, thou shalt dig about thee, and thou shalt take thy rest in safety.
(19) Also thou shalt lie down, and none shall make thee afraid; yea, many shall make suit unto thee.
(20) But the eyes of the wicked shall fail, and they shall not escape, and their hope shall be as the giving up of the ghost.
(14) If iniquity be in thine hand, put it far away, and let not wickedness dwell in thy tabernacles.
(15) For then shalt thou lift up thy face without spot; yea, thou shalt be stedfast, and shalt not fear:
(16) Because thou shalt forget thy misery, and remember it as waters that pass away:
(17) And thine age shall be clearer than the noonday; thou shalt shine forth, thou shalt be as the morning.
(18) And thou shalt be secure, because there is hope; yea, thou shalt dig about thee, and thou shalt take thy rest in safety.
(19) Also thou shalt lie down, and none shall make thee afraid; yea, many shall make suit unto thee.
(20) But the eyes of the wicked shall fail, and they shall not escape, and their hope shall be as the giving up of the ghost.
You will then be able to lift your head high again, and folks will again seek your counsel.
But if you do not turn from your sin, all you have to look forward to is death.
The 3 friends have all concluded that Job must have done something terribly wrong to be the object of such wrath.
The arguments they have laid out can be correct in certain situations.
But in this situation, the conclusion of their argument was wrong.
Job’s friend have misread the situation and come to faulty conclusion, even though their points can all be backed up by scripture.
Not all of scripture pertains to every individual in every situation.
Considering all scripture is a must, and rightly dividing scripture for each situation is a must.
And these 3 friends have chosen to accept only the portion of scripture that says the wicked receive wrath and the righteous receive blessing, but have totally disregarded the scripture (and life experience in general) that shows the righteous can also receive wrath or blessing.
It happened a lot with Israel.
While some of Israel were wicked, some of Israel were righteous. But both lost their kingdom and were held captive under the authority of the Babylonians.
Being righteous does not exclude you from suffering unjustly in this lifetime.
And judging by appearances does not always lead to the right conclusion.
Job is such an example.
Chapter 12
Chapter 12
Job has had just about enough of his friends accusations, without a single bit of evidence to offer of what Job has done wrong.
Oh, they go on and on talking about biblical theology, but don’t have one instance to witness against Job; yet continue to accuse him anyway.
Job uses a tactic that is sometimes useful to putting the puffed up in their place ---- sarcasm.
You guys think you are sooooooooooo smart. What in the world would all the rest of us poor little ‘ol stupid peons do if you died and left us alone without your wisdom?
Geeze, I know just as much as you guys do. Do you actually think you have told me anything that I don’t already know?
So just what “help” do you guys think you are giving me????????
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I am an upright man, yet you so-called “friends” mock me as some sort of wicked sinner.
It’s easy to kick a person while they’re down.
Gypsies, tramps, and thieves that live safely in their homes think that God cannot see them or harm them for what they do.
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And now Job speaks again of the awesome majesty of God.
Even creation itself reveals the majesty of God, who is in control of it all.
He can make a man live or die.
He can dry up a river, or overfill it to flood.
He can make a king into a pauper, or vise versa.
He can build a mighty nation, and knock it down.
He can make the wise and the proud look foolish.
All of it is His, and He can do as He likes with it.
Chapter 12
Job has had just about enough of his friends accusations, without a single bit of evidence to offer of what Job has done wrong.
Oh, they go on and on talking about biblical theology, but don’t have one instance to witness against Job; yet continue to accuse him anyway.
Job 12 KJV
(1) And Job answered and said,
(2) No doubt but ye are the people, and wisdom shall die with you.
(3) But I have understanding as well as you; I am not inferior to you: yea, who knoweth not such things as these?
(1) And Job answered and said,
(2) No doubt but ye are the people, and wisdom shall die with you.
(3) But I have understanding as well as you; I am not inferior to you: yea, who knoweth not such things as these?
Job uses a tactic that is sometimes useful to putting the puffed up in their place ---- sarcasm.
You guys think you are sooooooooooo smart. What in the world would all the rest of us poor little ‘ol stupid peons do if you died and left us alone without your wisdom?
Geeze, I know just as much as you guys do. Do you actually think you have told me anything that I don’t already know?
So just what “help” do you guys think you are giving me????????
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(4) I am as one mocked of his neighbour, who calleth upon God, and he answereth him: the just upright man is laughed to scorn.
(5) He that is ready to slip with his feet is as a lamp despised in the thought of him that is at ease.
(6) The tabernacles of robbers prosper, and they that provoke God are secure; into whose hand God bringeth abundantly.
(5) He that is ready to slip with his feet is as a lamp despised in the thought of him that is at ease.
(6) The tabernacles of robbers prosper, and they that provoke God are secure; into whose hand God bringeth abundantly.
I am an upright man, yet you so-called “friends” mock me as some sort of wicked sinner.
It’s easy to kick a person while they’re down.
Gypsies, tramps, and thieves that live safely in their homes think that God cannot see them or harm them for what they do.
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And now Job speaks again of the awesome majesty of God.
(7) But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
(8) Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
(9) Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this?
(10) In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
(11) Doth not the ear try words? and the mouth taste his meat?
(12) With the ancient is wisdom; and in length of days understanding.
(13) With him is wisdom and strength, he hath counsel and understanding.
(14) Behold, he breaketh down, and it cannot be built again: he shutteth up a man, and there can be no opening.
(15) Behold, he withholdeth the waters, and they dry up: also he sendeth them out, and they overturn the earth.
(16) With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.
(17) He leadeth counsellors away spoiled, and maketh the judges fools.
(18) He looseth the bond of kings, and girdeth their loins with a girdle.
(19) He leadeth princes away spoiled, and overthroweth the mighty.
(20) He removeth away the speech of the trusty, and taketh away the understanding of the aged.
(21) He poureth contempt upon princes, and weakeneth the strength of the mighty.
(22) He discovereth deep things out of darkness, and bringeth out to light the shadow of death.
(23) He increaseth the nations, and destroyeth them: he enlargeth the nations, and straiteneth them again.
(24) He taketh away the heart of the chief of the people of the earth, and causeth them to wander in a wilderness where there is no way.
(25) They grope in the dark without light, and he maketh them to stagger like a drunken man.
(8) Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
(9) Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this?
(10) In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
(11) Doth not the ear try words? and the mouth taste his meat?
(12) With the ancient is wisdom; and in length of days understanding.
(13) With him is wisdom and strength, he hath counsel and understanding.
(14) Behold, he breaketh down, and it cannot be built again: he shutteth up a man, and there can be no opening.
(15) Behold, he withholdeth the waters, and they dry up: also he sendeth them out, and they overturn the earth.
(16) With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.
(17) He leadeth counsellors away spoiled, and maketh the judges fools.
(18) He looseth the bond of kings, and girdeth their loins with a girdle.
(19) He leadeth princes away spoiled, and overthroweth the mighty.
(20) He removeth away the speech of the trusty, and taketh away the understanding of the aged.
(21) He poureth contempt upon princes, and weakeneth the strength of the mighty.
(22) He discovereth deep things out of darkness, and bringeth out to light the shadow of death.
(23) He increaseth the nations, and destroyeth them: he enlargeth the nations, and straiteneth them again.
(24) He taketh away the heart of the chief of the people of the earth, and causeth them to wander in a wilderness where there is no way.
(25) They grope in the dark without light, and he maketh them to stagger like a drunken man.
Even creation itself reveals the majesty of God, who is in control of it all.
He can make a man live or die.
He can dry up a river, or overfill it to flood.
He can make a king into a pauper, or vise versa.
He can build a mighty nation, and knock it down.
He can make the wise and the proud look foolish.
All of it is His, and He can do as He likes with it.
False Prophet
New member
Job was upright and blameless before God, because he walked with God. We are to become partakers of the divine nature. We are to be conformed into the image of his Son.
Job.29
[1] And Job again took up his discourse, and said:
[2] "Oh, that I were as in the months of old,
as in the days when God watched over me;
[3] when his lamp shone upon my head,
and by his light I walked through darkness;
[4] as I was in my autumn days,
when the friendship of God was upon my tent;
[5] when the Almighty was yet with me,
Job was not lying as he was accused of earlier in the book. He truly walked with God. Satan said, "Have you not put a hedge of protection around Job?"
when my children were about me;
[6] when my steps were washed with milk,
and the rock poured out for me streams of oil!
[7] When I went out to the gate of the city,
when I prepared my seat in the square,
[8] the young men saw me and withdrew,
and the aged rose and stood;
[9] the princes refrained from talking,
and laid their hand on their mouth;
[10] the voice of the nobles was hushed,
and their tongue cleaved to the roof of their mouth.
Job silenced the mouths of the wicked and the unjust with his presence. The aged stood up for Job as he passed, because he walked with God.
[11] When the ear heard, it called me blessed,
and when the eye saw, it approved;
[12] because I delivered the poor who cried,
and the fatherless who had none to help him.
[13] The blessing of him who was about to perish came upon me,
and I caused the widow's heart to sing for joy.
[14] I put on righteousness, and it clothed me;
my justice was like a robe and a turban.
[15] I was eyes to the blind,
and feet to the lame.
[16] I was a father to the poor,
and I searched out the cause of him whom I did not know.
Job supported the poor. Job led the blind where to go. Job put on righteousness which is the garment of salvation or the righteous acts of the saints. He visited the terminally ill, and he looked after widows.
21] "Men listened to me, and waited,
and kept silence for my counsel.
[22] After I spoke they did not speak again,
and my word dropped upon them.
[23] They waited for me as for the rain;
and they opened their mouths as for the spring rain.
[24] I smiled on them when they had no confidence;
and the light of my countenance they did not cast down.
[25] I chose their way, and sat as chief,
and I dwelt like a king among his troops,
like one who comforts mourners.
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Job.29
[1] And Job again took up his discourse, and said:
[2] "Oh, that I were as in the months of old,
as in the days when God watched over me;
[3] when his lamp shone upon my head,
and by his light I walked through darkness;
[4] as I was in my autumn days,
when the friendship of God was upon my tent;
[5] when the Almighty was yet with me,
Job was not lying as he was accused of earlier in the book. He truly walked with God. Satan said, "Have you not put a hedge of protection around Job?"
when my children were about me;
[6] when my steps were washed with milk,
and the rock poured out for me streams of oil!
[7] When I went out to the gate of the city,
when I prepared my seat in the square,
[8] the young men saw me and withdrew,
and the aged rose and stood;
[9] the princes refrained from talking,
and laid their hand on their mouth;
[10] the voice of the nobles was hushed,
and their tongue cleaved to the roof of their mouth.
Job silenced the mouths of the wicked and the unjust with his presence. The aged stood up for Job as he passed, because he walked with God.
[11] When the ear heard, it called me blessed,
and when the eye saw, it approved;
[12] because I delivered the poor who cried,
and the fatherless who had none to help him.
[13] The blessing of him who was about to perish came upon me,
and I caused the widow's heart to sing for joy.
[14] I put on righteousness, and it clothed me;
my justice was like a robe and a turban.
[15] I was eyes to the blind,
and feet to the lame.
[16] I was a father to the poor,
and I searched out the cause of him whom I did not know.
Job supported the poor. Job led the blind where to go. Job put on righteousness which is the garment of salvation or the righteous acts of the saints. He visited the terminally ill, and he looked after widows.
21] "Men listened to me, and waited,
and kept silence for my counsel.
[22] After I spoke they did not speak again,
and my word dropped upon them.
[23] They waited for me as for the rain;
and they opened their mouths as for the spring rain.
[24] I smiled on them when they had no confidence;
and the light of my countenance they did not cast down.
[25] I chose their way, and sat as chief,
and I dwelt like a king among his troops,
like one who comforts mourners.
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Chapter 13
Chapter 13
Job continues in his distress.
Are the friends speaking any truth that Job does not already know?
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Is it best to rely on the words of man, or the words of God ?
Mainly because they had no clue what the cause of Job's affliction was, so they were making assumptions. Wrong assumptions! And Job knew they were wrong assumptions.
(3) Surely I would speak to the Almighty, and I desire to reason with God.
(4) But ye are forgers of lies, ye are all physicians of no value.
(5) O that ye would altogether hold your peace! and it should be your wisdom.
(6) Hear now my reasoning, and hearken to the pleadings of my lips.
(7) Will ye speak wickedly for God? and talk deceitfully for him?
(8) Will ye accept his person? will ye contend for God?
(9) Is it good that he should search you out? or as one man mocketh another, do ye so mock him?
Showing partiality is a no-no!
To assume that one that is being afflicted is always due to God's displeasure of that person, is just that ----- assumption.
God will rebuke those that make false assumptions, by calling evil good and good evil.
And Job throws back what Eliphaz said (Job 4:17-21) in his face!
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Job tells the friends to hold their tongue and let him speak.
He will trust in the Lord no matter what his current situation is.
Because he knows he has not forsaken God. Job puts his trust in the only one that can give him salvation.
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Job ask God to plead his case face to face.
Job asks for two things so he can do this.
1. Take away the affliction for a time so he can be focused on his case instead of the pain.
2. Take away the terror ----- ie. the terror of God when one sees Him.
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Job wants to know WHY God is doing this to him.
(Remember, Job does not know that it is Satan, not God, causing his affliction.)
Even though Job trusts completely in God, he still wants to know why God seems to have left him alone.
How many of us do the same when we are going through tough times?
Do we not also cry out to God that it seems He has left us to suffer?
But the story of Job should make us realize that not all reasonable assumptions are the truth of the matter.
Chapter 13
Job continues in his distress.
Are the friends speaking any truth that Job does not already know?
Job 13 KJV
(1) Lo, mine eye hath seen all this, mine ear hath heard and understood it.
(2) What ye know, the same do I know also: I am not inferior unto you.
(1) Lo, mine eye hath seen all this, mine ear hath heard and understood it.
(2) What ye know, the same do I know also: I am not inferior unto you.
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"Let God be true, but every man a liar."
Job would rather argue his case with the infallible God, rather than fallible men. Because these guys were telling some truth, but not the whole truth.
Mainly because they had no clue what the cause of Job's affliction was, so they were making assumptions. Wrong assumptions! And Job knew they were wrong assumptions.
(3) Surely I would speak to the Almighty, and I desire to reason with God.
(4) But ye are forgers of lies, ye are all physicians of no value.
(5) O that ye would altogether hold your peace! and it should be your wisdom.
(6) Hear now my reasoning, and hearken to the pleadings of my lips.
(7) Will ye speak wickedly for God? and talk deceitfully for him?
(8) Will ye accept his person? will ye contend for God?
(9) Is it good that he should search you out? or as one man mocketh another, do ye so mock him?
Showing partiality is a no-no!
To assume that one that is being afflicted is always due to God's displeasure of that person, is just that ----- assumption.
God will rebuke those that make false assumptions, by calling evil good and good evil.
And Job throws back what Eliphaz said (Job 4:17-21) in his face!
(10) He will surely reprove you, if ye do secretly accept persons.
(11) Shall not his excellency make you afraid? and his dread fall upon you?
(12) Your remembrances are like unto ashes, your bodies to bodies of clay.
(11) Shall not his excellency make you afraid? and his dread fall upon you?
(12) Your remembrances are like unto ashes, your bodies to bodies of clay.
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Job tells the friends to hold their tongue and let him speak.
He will trust in the Lord no matter what his current situation is.
Because he knows he has not forsaken God. Job puts his trust in the only one that can give him salvation.
(13) Hold your peace, let me alone, that I may speak, and let come on me what will.
(14) Wherefore do I take my flesh in my teeth, and put my life in mine hand?
(15) Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.
(16) He also shall be my salvation: for an hypocrite shall not come before him.
(17) Hear diligently my speech, and my declaration with your ears.
(18) Behold now, I have ordered my cause; I know that I shall be justified.
(14) Wherefore do I take my flesh in my teeth, and put my life in mine hand?
(15) Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.
(16) He also shall be my salvation: for an hypocrite shall not come before him.
(17) Hear diligently my speech, and my declaration with your ears.
(18) Behold now, I have ordered my cause; I know that I shall be justified.
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Job ask God to plead his case face to face.
Job asks for two things so he can do this.
1. Take away the affliction for a time so he can be focused on his case instead of the pain.
2. Take away the terror ----- ie. the terror of God when one sees Him.
(19) Who is he that will plead with me? for now, if I hold my tongue, I shall give up the ghost.
(20) Only do not two things unto me: then will I not hide myself from thee.
(21) Withdraw thine hand far from me: and let not thy dread make me afraid.
(22) Then call thou, and I will answer: or let me speak, and answer thou me.
(20) Only do not two things unto me: then will I not hide myself from thee.
(21) Withdraw thine hand far from me: and let not thy dread make me afraid.
(22) Then call thou, and I will answer: or let me speak, and answer thou me.
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Job wants to know WHY God is doing this to him.
(Remember, Job does not know that it is Satan, not God, causing his affliction.)
Even though Job trusts completely in God, he still wants to know why God seems to have left him alone.
How many of us do the same when we are going through tough times?
Do we not also cry out to God that it seems He has left us to suffer?
"Why me , Lord? Why, why why?"
It's natural, and even a reasonable assumption; because scripture tells of plenty of instances when God did cause some to suffer.
But the story of Job should make us realize that not all reasonable assumptions are the truth of the matter.
(23) How many are mine iniquities and sins? make me to know my transgression and my sin.
(24) Wherefore hidest thou thy face, and holdest me for thine enemy?
(25) Wilt thou break a leaf driven to and fro? and wilt thou pursue the dry stubble?
(26) For thou writest bitter things against me, and makest me to possess the iniquities of my youth.
(27) Thou puttest my feet also in the stocks, and lookest narrowly unto all my paths; thou settest a print upon the heels of my feet.
(28) And he, as a rotten thing, consumeth, as a garment that is moth eaten.
(24) Wherefore hidest thou thy face, and holdest me for thine enemy?
(25) Wilt thou break a leaf driven to and fro? and wilt thou pursue the dry stubble?
(26) For thou writest bitter things against me, and makest me to possess the iniquities of my youth.
(27) Thou puttest my feet also in the stocks, and lookest narrowly unto all my paths; thou settest a print upon the heels of my feet.
(28) And he, as a rotten thing, consumeth, as a garment that is moth eaten.
I knew Job would not be forsaken.....
ttruscott
Well-known member
Hmmm, 10 pages in, eh?
Here's a bit to chew on:
Job 1:21 - And Job said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb and naked shall I return thither.
Obviously Job was not going to re-enter his mother's womb, right? So then why is his death described as a return to his mother's womb? Why didn't he say, Naked was I born and naked shall I die? Well, may I suggest that, to an author who knows about preconception existence, who is writing a book about suffering (but not for sin committed during this life since Job was characterized as : “There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.”) this is a very poetic, secretive way of describing death, that is, our return to the state we were in before we were given life.
Now, a return to the state one was in before one was born or given life can mean only one of two things: either annihilation or preconception existence. Well, since I do not believe that Job's author thought that death meant annihilation, I am not really left with much choice. There is only one rational answer left... Now, what do you think about that? Pretty surprising eh!
Peace, Ted
Here's a bit to chew on:
Job 1:21 - And Job said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb and naked shall I return thither.
Obviously Job was not going to re-enter his mother's womb, right? So then why is his death described as a return to his mother's womb? Why didn't he say, Naked was I born and naked shall I die? Well, may I suggest that, to an author who knows about preconception existence, who is writing a book about suffering (but not for sin committed during this life since Job was characterized as : “There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.”) this is a very poetic, secretive way of describing death, that is, our return to the state we were in before we were given life.
Now, a return to the state one was in before one was born or given life can mean only one of two things: either annihilation or preconception existence. Well, since I do not believe that Job's author thought that death meant annihilation, I am not really left with much choice. There is only one rational answer left... Now, what do you think about that? Pretty surprising eh!
Peace, Ted