Believing: Is it done BEFORE or AFTER one is in Christ?
- Thread starter Samie
- Start date
So while NOT in Christ, you are claiming you did SOMETHING, to be in Him. That's CLEARLY salvation by works and diametrically opposed to Christ's own words that while NOT in Him man can do NOTHING. Yours is a false gospel.
Here's the pure gospel:
You were born already in Christ, because God saved Adam the same day he sinned, an act that cost the Father His only begotten Son - the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Being in Christ, you have His power to do things. You can overcome evil with good. You could overcome the evil of unbelief by believing. But if you refuse to overcome evil with good, then your name gets blotted out from the book of life, and you end up in the lake of fire.
Saved by grace instead of works and totally in accord with the gospel that Christ preached.
Mocking You
New member
Well, then, here's the Bible:
but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. John 20:31
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:13
Explicitly plain to me that one is not "in Christ" until and unless they believe.
And that is cart before the horse.
How can you believe when you are not yet in Christ Who said apart from Him man can do NOTHING? Are you saying while NOT in Him you can do SOMETHING?
Mocking You
New member
I'm not saying anything I'm quoting scripture. The Bible says we must believe, then we are saved, or "in Christ".
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
that's what most, if not all, protestant church preach. Why the fuss?
What verse says that unless one believes he cannot be in Christ?
Here's what Christ said:
NAS John 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing.
While one is APART from Christ, how can he believe when he can do NOTHING?
I already answered your question of "Why the fuss?" in the OP.
are you not making straw man argument?
ttruscott
Well-known member
After.
We came into Christ and so became elect then went astray by idolizing the reprobate who rejected Christ, standing against their judgement. So then our earthly lives return us to our first commitment in Christ and our sanctification.
I don't think so. UNLESS you can show me that I am.
IF the teaching is true that unless one believes he cannot be in Christ, then man can do SOMETHING while apart from Christ.
IF man can do SOMETHING while apart from Christ, then Christ lied when He said man can do NOTHING apart from Him.
But we all know Christ die not lie. Therefore, the teaching that unless one believes he cannot be in Christ is false.
IF man can do SOMETHING while apart from Christ, then Christ lied when He said man can do NOTHING apart from Him.
But we all know Christ die not lie. Therefore, the teaching that unless one believes he cannot be in Christ is false.
God's Truth
New member
Jesus said to those WHO WERE ALREADY in him that if the leave him they can do nothing.
God's Truth
New member
Are you trying to debate the truth with Meshak?
Just the same dog with different collar.
IF he who is in Him leaves Him, then he is no longer in Him.
His situation is just like one who was NEVER in Christ in the first place.
Both can do NOTHING.
I was simply addressing Meshak's post trying to have a pleasant discussion with him/her. (Sorry, is Meshak a he or a she? It appears to me from the picture of her avatar that Meshak is a she. Unless Meshak corrects me, I'll presume Meshak to be a she.)
God's Truth
New member
No it is not the same.
Obeying Jesus' life given words to get 'in' him is not the same as warning those not to leave him or they can do nothing.
If one were to obey to get "in" Him, then PRIOR to his obeying, he is not in Christ. If one is not in Christ, he can do NOTHING. If he can do NOTHING, he cannot obey. If he cannot obey, he cannot be in Him, according to your false gospel.
You insist on preaching a false gospel.
God's Truth
New member
That is right, but then when one wants to be saved, they 'come' to Christ and do what he says to get in him.
Jesus tells people to COME to him. If they cannot obey until they are saved...if they can do NOTHING unless they are already 'in' him, then what is Jesus calling them to come for?
Matthew 11:28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.
John 7:37
On the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood up and called out in a loud voice, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.
Revelation 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let the one who hears say, "Come!" Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
Did you read all those scriptures that Jesus says 'come'?
Again, if they are IN him, why is Jesus calling them to come?
If they leave Christ then they can do nothing.
They were in him, and if they leave him, they can do nothing.
You are not reasoning. You are adding things to Jesus' words. NOWHERE do the scriptures say we cannot obey Jesus!
You are the one preaching a false gospel.
You make Jesus into some kind of psycho telling us to come and knowing they cannot.