BATTLE TALK - Battle Royale III ~ Dee Dee vs. Jerry
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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The" sun being darkened" and the "moon not giving her light" and the" stars falling heaven "and the" powers of heaven being shaken" is apocalyptic language . A language commonly used in the OT. I learned that when I came to preterism while spending 30 years as a futurist this was not taught . I wonder why ??Read Isaiah 13 :9 -10 " ...for the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light ; the sun will be darkened at it's rising and the moon will not shed it's light."Jump to Isaiah 34 :4 concerning the judgement of Egypt : "And the host of heavens shall be dissolved and crumble away, and the skies shall be rolled together like a scroll: and all their host ( the stars and the planets ) shall drop like a faded leaf from the vine, and like a withered fig from the fig tree. " Also see Rev 6: 13. I am going to Ezekiel 32:7 : "...I will cover the heavens (of Egypt ) and make their stars dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud and the moon shall not give her light. "Ther's plenty more references. The stars falling and sun darkening is basically God saying lights out . Judgement is here . I used to be a boxing fan for years. I remember Mike Tyson saying to an opponent " I will knock his lights out ." No one thinks that Mike meant he was going to go to the opponent 's house and bust all his lamps and punch out all his light fixtures. Cross referencing God's judgements in the OT, you'll find God uses cosmic terminology. Our Lord uses this in the Olivet Discourse and in the book of Revelation you'll find the same. In my class with Lindsey , he once taught that the sun couldn't be seen because in the end times, the pollution on earth would get so bad , the sun would appear to be darkened. Another explanation was that before a nuclear explosion, the mushroom cloud would block the sun from earth . The stars falling from heaven weren't stars ,but meteors or comets. I would ask why to Doug Clark . Remember him? He said it's obvious that they aren't stars , because they are too big. John thought they were stars, but we know that they are comets or asteroids. That's biblical interpretation ??? Hitch : The passage you quoted "..I will seek to destroy... " Just the reading of the passage I don't see that Rome would have to be destroyed in a 24 hour period . 70 Ad was the beginning of the end for them. I'm sure Dee Dee has a more technical answer to your comment. Rapt : I believe that Nero was the anti-christ. Gentry and DeMar's arguments are pretty convincing to me. This will jar your preserves. As a futurist , I once thought Gorbachev was the anti-christ. I have a book I bought a few years ago pointing to him as the anti-christ. I then thought briefly ---Prince Charles was being groomed . Boy ,I find the futurist wants to be sure that preterists dot their P's and cross all their Q's , but what about all the insanity in disp. I accidently turned on to Jack Van Impe. I turned it off after 3 minutes. I couldn't take it . I then took refuge in the eyes of cows.
Amen, mrsnacks, you're correct about the language of the bible often not to be taken literally.
I used to like Elton John. He sang a song that contained these lines: "Don't let the sun go down on me...'cause LOOSING EVERYTHNG is like the sun going down on me". I'm sure no one took him to be saying that he didn't want the sun to come down and ride him. :doh: Yet that's the very thing futurists do with the scriptures, even though they KNOW those things didn't LITERALLY happen in history when God judged Egypt and Edom and others.
Yeah, I can tolerate Jack Van Impe about as long as I'd be able to tolerate Benny Hinn (who made the FANTASTIC claims:
1. that Jesus would be appearing with him on stages around the world
2. that Castro would die in the '90's
3. that all the sodomites would be burnt with fire in the 90's). Van Impe's fantastic "news reports" sicken me just as fast as Hinn.
Cow's eyes?
I used to like Elton John. He sang a song that contained these lines: "Don't let the sun go down on me...'cause LOOSING EVERYTHNG is like the sun going down on me". I'm sure no one took him to be saying that he didn't want the sun to come down and ride him. :doh: Yet that's the very thing futurists do with the scriptures, even though they KNOW those things didn't LITERALLY happen in history when God judged Egypt and Edom and others.
Yeah, I can tolerate Jack Van Impe about as long as I'd be able to tolerate Benny Hinn (who made the FANTASTIC claims:
1. that Jesus would be appearing with him on stages around the world
2. that Castro would die in the '90's
3. that all the sodomites would be burnt with fire in the 90's). Van Impe's fantastic "news reports" sicken me just as fast as Hinn.
Cow's eyes?
C
cirisme
Guest
Do you ever stop shooting your mouth off?
My sympathies to your family...
Or do you believe as Dee Dee does,that when the Lord fights against those nations,and pledges to "defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem" and to "destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem"(Zech.12:8,9),that the Lord allows the enemies of Jerusalem to win?
In other words,even though the Lord pledges to defend Jerusalem,He does no such thing.And even though the Lord fightsa against thosewho come against Jerusalem.He fights a losing battle.
LOL the real(heavenly) Jerusalem won the war in ad 70. Thats why we see so few Roman Legions and roving bands of Pharisees , but there are churches on every corner.
But since Jerry is stil looking ahed to see this I wonder if he still looks ahed to Z 13;7? And why not?
Hitch
In other words,even though the Lord pledges to defend Jerusalem,He does no such thing.And even though the Lord fightsa against thosewho come against Jerusalem.He fights a losing battle.
LOL the real(heavenly) Jerusalem won the war in ad 70. Thats why we see so few Roman Legions and roving bands of Pharisees , but there are churches on every corner.
But since Jerry is stil looking ahed to see this I wonder if he still looks ahed to Z 13;7? And why not?
Hitch
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Jerry says;
Next,earlier Dee Dee said that the “cosmic disturbances” of Matthew 24:9 refer to “the events of the destruction of Jerusalem…”But I asked her how that could be since Scripture plainly states that the “cosmic disturbances” will come “immediately AFTER” the “great tribulation”,which she thinks refers to the desruction of Jerusalem in AD70.In other words,she has Jerusalem destroyed in AD70 and then immediately after this she has Jerusalem destroyed again.
Well Jerry Im sorry to see this. This is a pathetic and dishonest attempt to cloud the water. And it is shameful.
The use of this type of gross misrepresentation has left me utterly in contempt. And whats really sad is that you really do need to stoop to such tactics.
I would laugh but my stomach is turning.When this BR is over you're going on ignore.
HITCH
Next,earlier Dee Dee said that the “cosmic disturbances” of Matthew 24:9 refer to “the events of the destruction of Jerusalem…”But I asked her how that could be since Scripture plainly states that the “cosmic disturbances” will come “immediately AFTER” the “great tribulation”,which she thinks refers to the desruction of Jerusalem in AD70.In other words,she has Jerusalem destroyed in AD70 and then immediately after this she has Jerusalem destroyed again.
Well Jerry Im sorry to see this. This is a pathetic and dishonest attempt to cloud the water. And it is shameful.
The use of this type of gross misrepresentation has left me utterly in contempt. And whats really sad is that you really do need to stoop to such tactics.
I would laugh but my stomach is turning.When this BR is over you're going on ignore.
HITCH
Revelation717
New member
Cirisme,
You said to Rapt, "My sympathies to your family... "
How sad for you to resort to such a level. :down:
So what is it, are you Satanic or Occultist?
How are my comments about them a personal attack on you?
Why the ambiguity?
To the rest that are having "COSMIC" disturbances, read the following,
M't:5:13: Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
M't:5:14: Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
What about this refererance?
Are we to believe that those salt shakers on the dinner table ACTUALLY contain PEOPLE???
Are we cannibals?
Are we to believe that are bodies actually radiate a physical luminescense that light up the world?
When Jesus said those would have to eat His body and drink His blood, some were offended:
Joh:6:61: When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
Joh:6:62: What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
Joh:6:63: It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Joh:6:64: But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Joh:6:65: And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Joh:6:66: From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Joh:6:67: Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Joh:6:68: Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Joh:6:69: And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
Those that WALKED AWAY did not understand His words. Niether will those who walk away today and put their FAITH in fables and fantasies. Waiting and watching for an earthly temple (nowhere in Scripture), an ANTICHRIST (whom is magnified and worshipped by those who wait his coming) to take over the world, a 7 year Great Trib.(no where in Scripture) so that antichrist will KNOW the DAY and HOUR of Jesus' return(contrary to Scripture), a "secret" Rapture and the 2nd coming in 2 stages and CONTRARY to Jesus' prayer and word concerning the Last Day, salvation for the unbelieving Jew WITHOUT Jesus & protection for the unbelieving Jew as a child of God(a lie and FALSE GOSPEL).
Can't you see the egregious error of this thinking?:down:
You said to Rapt, "My sympathies to your family... "
How sad for you to resort to such a level. :down:
So what is it, are you Satanic or Occultist?
How are my comments about them a personal attack on you?
Why the ambiguity?
To the rest that are having "COSMIC" disturbances, read the following,
M't:5:13: Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
M't:5:14: Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
What about this refererance?
Are we to believe that those salt shakers on the dinner table ACTUALLY contain PEOPLE???
Are we cannibals?
Are we to believe that are bodies actually radiate a physical luminescense that light up the world?
When Jesus said those would have to eat His body and drink His blood, some were offended:
Joh:6:61: When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
Joh:6:62: What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
Joh:6:63: It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Joh:6:64: But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Joh:6:65: And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Joh:6:66: From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Joh:6:67: Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Joh:6:68: Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Joh:6:69: And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
Those that WALKED AWAY did not understand His words. Niether will those who walk away today and put their FAITH in fables and fantasies. Waiting and watching for an earthly temple (nowhere in Scripture), an ANTICHRIST (whom is magnified and worshipped by those who wait his coming) to take over the world, a 7 year Great Trib.(no where in Scripture) so that antichrist will KNOW the DAY and HOUR of Jesus' return(contrary to Scripture), a "secret" Rapture and the 2nd coming in 2 stages and CONTRARY to Jesus' prayer and word concerning the Last Day, salvation for the unbelieving Jew WITHOUT Jesus & protection for the unbelieving Jew as a child of God(a lie and FALSE GOSPEL).
Can't you see the egregious error of this thinking?:down:
C
cirisme
Guest
Neither.
I didn't say that they were.
I said not to make straw men or personally attack me. The two frequently come together, so I wanted to catch it before it starts.
C
cirisme
Guest
Yes.
But, wait! We're not talking about you're thinking are we? :doh: :doh:
Revelation717
New member
So Cirisme, how were you misrepresented?
I'll post your post from the 20th page:
START POST>>>
quote:
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Cirisme, no one has told any blatant lies about you or attacked you in this string.
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Hmmm....
quote:
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Why is this applicable to every other cult member, Buhddists, Morman, Islam, Occultist, Satanist BUT NEVER THE JEW who is more antichrist THAN ALL others put together!
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I already said the opposite was true.
quote:
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Why don't you apologize for making that statement.
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What statement?
I'm sorry for saying Rev lied about me, even though he did.
Perhaps rev should apologize for misrepresenting me.
END POST<<<
Your sorry for saying I lied about you? I wasn't talking about you.
But you are calling me a liar, I EXPECT AN APOLOGY FROM YOU!
How were you misrepresented in any of my posts? CUT AND PASTE how I personally misrepresented you.
I think you are quite confused about this among other things.
I'll post your post from the 20th page:
START POST>>>
quote:
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Cirisme, no one has told any blatant lies about you or attacked you in this string.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmmm....
quote:
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Why is this applicable to every other cult member, Buhddists, Morman, Islam, Occultist, Satanist BUT NEVER THE JEW who is more antichrist THAN ALL others put together!
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I already said the opposite was true.
quote:
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Why don't you apologize for making that statement.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What statement?
I'm sorry for saying Rev lied about me, even though he did.
Perhaps rev should apologize for misrepresenting me.
END POST<<<
Your sorry for saying I lied about you? I wasn't talking about you.
But you are calling me a liar, I EXPECT AN APOLOGY FROM YOU!
How were you misrepresented in any of my posts? CUT AND PASTE how I personally misrepresented you.
I think you are quite confused about this among other things.
C
cirisme
Guest
On page 19, you said, in a post to me:
Which is the most blatant straw man I have ever seen.
Dream on...
BTW, why constantly ignore the real issues I brought up?
Which is the most blatant straw man I have ever seen.
Dream on...
BTW, why constantly ignore the real issues I brought up?
Thank you Rev 7:17 for rebuking Cirisme in my behalf.
Those who don't understand Christ's words are blinded by literalism. When Christ said they must eat his flesh and blood or have no life in them, they got offended. Today they get offended at what Jesus said about the sun, moon, and stars, because they are blind, and take those things (and most everything else He said) literally. Jesus said to the blind literalists:
Those who don't understand Christ's words are blinded by literalism. When Christ said they must eat his flesh and blood or have no life in them, they got offended. Today they get offended at what Jesus said about the sun, moon, and stars, because they are blind, and take those things (and most everything else He said) literally. Jesus said to the blind literalists:
Revelation717
New member
I can see that anything that you are unable to refute will be "just another STRAW MAN".
The STRAW MAN cop-out. It's as safe as the bell in the 10th round.
<ding ding> back to your corner now Cirisme.
Cirisme, "BTW, why constantly ignore the real issues I brought up?"
I think you may have mistaken this for another thread, I've YET to see you bring up ANYTHING but confusion, false witness (calling me a liar, YET NO PROOF) and ambiguity.
Your about to be the very FIRST to make the ignore list- EEEWWWWW
At least then you'd be able to say you achieved something here! :thumb:
The STRAW MAN cop-out. It's as safe as the bell in the 10th round.
<ding ding> back to your corner now Cirisme.
Cirisme, "BTW, why constantly ignore the real issues I brought up?"
I think you may have mistaken this for another thread, I've YET to see you bring up ANYTHING but confusion, false witness (calling me a liar, YET NO PROOF) and ambiguity.
Your about to be the very FIRST to make the ignore list- EEEWWWWW
At least then you'd be able to say you achieved something here! :thumb:
Proverbs 26:16
The sluggard is wiser in his own conceit than seven men that can render a reason.
Proverbs 26:12
Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
2 Thessalonians 3:2 Thessalonians 3
1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:
2
And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
Have you ever tried to reason with a drunkard? I find it IMPOSSIBLE. What can one do with one but ignore him and get away from him?
The sluggard is wiser in his own conceit than seven men that can render a reason.
Proverbs 26:12
Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
2 Thessalonians 3:2 Thessalonians 3
1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:
2
And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
Have you ever tried to reason with a drunkard? I find it IMPOSSIBLE. What can one do with one but ignore him and get away from him?
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I think Dee Dee's last post is finally causing me a breakthrough in understanding. I've been so engulfed in my own prejudiced thinking that Matt 24 HAD to be talking about the coming when the resurrection happens that I've overlooked the fact the the judgments of God have been descibed in the OT JUST LIKE they were concerning 70AD.
I used to always connect "And He shall send His angels with the great sound of a trumpet, and He shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other" with the resurrection, but I'm seeing now that it applies to those who were instructed to flee Judea so that they wouldn't be destroyed with the wicked. (Talk about "left behind"!) I kept expecting to actually HEAR the great sound of a trumpet! Now that's just about as dumb as expecting to see the sun, moon, and stars fall or get dark, iisn't it? (I don't expect to see a woman riding a scarlet beast with seven heads and ten horns, and I don't literally eat Jesus' flesh or drink His blood either!, btw! :doh: )
In the passage that says "the one shall be "TAKEN", and the other left, Jesus used Noah as His example. The TAKEN were those who were TAKEN IN JUDGMENT. "...And knew not until the flood came and TOOK them all away". He also said that the same day Lot left Sodom that the fire fell from heaven. I'm sure the day the Christians left Judea was none too soon, since Jesus had warned "let him not return for his clothes".
So I'm leaning heavily in the direction of no longer believing that Matt 24 is a parallel chapter with 1Thes 4:16,17, 2Pet 3, or 1Cor 15:50-53.
Hey, what can I say? I've been WRONG!
THANK YOU JESUS FOR THE TRUTH.
I used to always connect "And He shall send His angels with the great sound of a trumpet, and He shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other" with the resurrection, but I'm seeing now that it applies to those who were instructed to flee Judea so that they wouldn't be destroyed with the wicked. (Talk about "left behind"!) I kept expecting to actually HEAR the great sound of a trumpet! Now that's just about as dumb as expecting to see the sun, moon, and stars fall or get dark, iisn't it? (I don't expect to see a woman riding a scarlet beast with seven heads and ten horns, and I don't literally eat Jesus' flesh or drink His blood either!, btw! :doh: )
In the passage that says "the one shall be "TAKEN", and the other left, Jesus used Noah as His example. The TAKEN were those who were TAKEN IN JUDGMENT. "...And knew not until the flood came and TOOK them all away". He also said that the same day Lot left Sodom that the fire fell from heaven. I'm sure the day the Christians left Judea was none too soon, since Jesus had warned "let him not return for his clothes".
So I'm leaning heavily in the direction of no longer believing that Matt 24 is a parallel chapter with 1Thes 4:16,17, 2Pet 3, or 1Cor 15:50-53.
Hey, what can I say? I've been WRONG!
THANK YOU JESUS FOR THE TRUTH.
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think Dee Dee's last post is finally causing me a breakthrough in understanding. I've been so engulfed in my own prejudiced thinking that Matt 24 HAD to be talking about the coming when the resurrection happens that I've overlooked the fact the the judgments of God have been descibed in the OT JUST LIKE they were concerning 70AD.
And He came to give sight to the blind....
And He came to give sight to the blind....
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