1 Samuel 6:19 - How many men slain?
1 Samuel 6:19 - How many men slain?
Hi Desert Reign. I want to thank you for at least looking into these examples. Since I believe the KJB is always right, then I agree with you when you agree with the KJB, and disagree with you when you don't.
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or God smiting 50,070 men in 1 Samuel 6:19 KJV (KJB, RV, ASV, NASB, NET, Douay-Rheims) or 70 men slain (RSV, NIV, NRSV, ESV, Catholic New Jerusalem), or “70 men- 50 chief men” (Young’s), or “70 MEN OUT OF 50,000 Holman Standard
Desert Reign says: "The mss literally says 'seventy men fifty thousand men' (or 50 leaders of men depending on the different possible meaning of the word eleph, which could mean thousand or leader). My conclusion: the text is untranslatable as it stands so I would not blame any of the versions cited here."
I disagree. The KJB got it right, as always.
1 Samuel 6:19 - 50,070 men slain or only 70 or 75 or 70 men 50 chief men or 50 oxen of a man?
1 Samuel 6:19 King James Bible - "And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked INTO the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people FIFTY THOUSAND AND THREESCORE AND TEN MEN: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter."
ESV - "And he struck SOME of the men of Bethshemesh, because they looked UPON the ark of the LORD. He struck SEVENTY MEN of them, and the people mourned because the LORD had struck the people with a great blow."
Most Evangelical Christians today do not believe that any Bible in any language IS the inerrant words of God. In spite of the lame and meaningless recent Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy, they did get one thing right. It’s found in Article XII - “We deny that Biblical infallibility and inerrancy are limited to spiritual, religious, or redemptive themes, exclusive of assertions in the fields of history and science.”
Every true Bible believer should agree with this statement. IF the Bible is not 100% historically true, then at what point does God start to tell us the truth? If we cannot trust God's Book when it comes to specific numbers and names recorded as literal historical events, then how can we be sure He got the other parts right?
1 Samuel 6:19 presents us with a clear example of how many modern Bible translators presume to alter the Hebrew text and "correct" the King James Bible. These “good, godly, evangelical scholars” reveal their unbelief, and their willingness to altar the inspired text.
How do we explain this large number -50,070 - of men slain by the Lord in the context of this event of the ark of the LORD having been taken captive and then recovered?
The first six chapters of 1 Samuel relate the events surrounding a series of battles between the children of Israel and the Philistines, the capture and subsequent return of the ark of the covenant, and the LORD’S slaying of 50,070 people.
The King James Bible reads at 1 Samuel 6:19: “And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people FIFTY THOUSAND AND THREESCORE AND TEN MEN: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.”
Many modern commentaries cast doubt on the accuracy of the Hebrew reading here, and display their unbelief. This is best exemplified by Gleason Archer, one of the translators of both the NASB and the NIV. In his book, Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties, on page 169, Mr. Archers says: “But there is strong evidence to indicate that the original text of 1 Samuel 6:19 read a much lower number”...”a very justified suspicion that the text was inadvertently garbled in the course of transmission.”
Mr. Archer’s book is full of statements like this concerning many passages of Scripture. He says things like “these transmissional errors, as we believe them to be”, “quite possible to commit an error in textual transmission”, “has undoubtedly undergone multiplication by ten because of an obscurity or misunderstanding” and “the alleged desire to embellish the record and exaggerate the glory of the past must have been a very modest one on the Chronicler’s part.”
This book by Gleason Archer, of the NIV, NASB translation committees, is a Trojan horse of faith destroying, scholar-speak Baloney that is so highly recommended by Hank Hannegraf - another professional bible agnostic.
The Bible Commentaries
Many Bible Commentaries come up with some pretty loopy ideas as they cast doubt on God's words. Just to give you a general idea of how a man's mind can turn to mush when he doesn't believe, here are just a few.
The Pulpit commentary notes: "In this verse also THE TEXT IS UNDOUBTEDLY CORRUPT. The numbers, however, are evidently wrong."
John Gill rambles on with 5 or 6 different opinions and never does tell us which is right. But one of them is pretty close to what I think is the correct explanation. I will get to that in a moment.
Jamieson, Fausset and Brown wildly opine: "he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men—Beth-shemesh being only a village, THIS TRANSLATION MUST BE ERRONEOUS, AND SHOULD BE, "HE SMOTE FIFTTY OUT OF A THOUSAND," BEING ONLY FOURTEEN HUNDRED IN ALL WHO INDULGED THIS CURIOSITY." Huh??
Barne's Notes on the Bible - "Fifty thousand and three score and ten - Read "three" score and "ten", omitting "fifty thousand", which appears to have crept into the text from the margin."
Matthew Henry, who usually is pretty sound, says: "The number smitten is expressed in an unusual manner in the original, and it is probable that it means 1170." Ooookaaay....
This blatant unbelief is not just limited to commentaries about the Bible, but is also found in the text and footnotes of many modern bible versions themselves.
The NIV 1978, 1984 and 2011 editions say: "putting SEVENTY OF THEM to death because they looked into the ark of the LORD." then they tell us in a footnote that the reading of SEVENTY OF THEM" comes from “A few Hebrew manuscripts; MOST HEBREW MANUSCRIPTS AND SEPTUAGINTS READ 50,070. This number is generally considered to be a scribal error. Some discrepant statements concerning numbers are found in the extant Hebrew manuscripts. Error by scribes in transmission of Hebrew numbers was easy, whereas preservation of numerical accuracy was difficult. Inspiration extends only to the inerrancy of the original autographs.”
This blasphemous view of preservation is that held by most of today’s “Christian scholars” and it is stated in black and white right there in the NIV.
In a note on 1 Chronicles 11:11 the NIV 1984 edition has this statement: “Many disagreements between numbers in Samuel and Kings, and those in Chronicles, are alleged. Actually, out of the approximately 150 instances of parallel numbers in these books, fewer than one-sixth disagree. GOD GAVE US A BIBLE FREE FROM ERROR IN THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS. IN ITS PRESERVATION through many generations of recopying, HE PROVIDENTIALLY KEPT IT FROM SERIOUS ERROR, ALTHOUGH HE PERMITTED A FEW SCRIBAL MISTAKES."
There you have it. This is the view of all modern Bible translators. “Only the originals were inspired, text garbled, error in transmission, desire to embellish the record, no serious error, a few scribal mistakes”. Mr. Archer does not dispute the Hebrew reading of 50,070, but he says it is an error, and thus we have the reading of "70 of them" in the NIV.
"He struck SEVENTY MEN of them" is the reading of the RSV, NRSV 1989, ESVs 2001, 2007 and 2011 editions, NEB 1970, Darby 1890, the Living Bible 1971, Amplified bible 1987, Easy To Read Version 2006 (Hey, it's WRONG, but at least it's "Easy to Read", right?) Expanded Bible 2011 (Thomas Nelson), the 2011 Names of God Bible 2011, Common English Bible 2011, Lexham English Bible 2012, and the New Living Translation 2013.
The footnotes found in the RSV, NRSV and ESV all tell us: "Hebrew - of the people seventy men, fifty thousand men". They all admit that this is the number found in the Hebrew texts.
The absurd paraphrase called The Message says simply: "Seventy died."
The New Life Version 1969 has: "He killed 70 (50,070) men." Huh?
Lamsa’s 1933 translation from the Syriac, (the NIV, NASB, RSV and ESV frequently follow the Syriac versions and reject the Hebrew texts - but not this time) says: “ he smote 5000 and 70 men”.
Young’s "literal" translation reads: “He smiteth among the people SEVENTY MEN - FIFTY CHIEF MEN”.
The Jubilee Bible 2000 says: "he smote FIFTY THOUSAND OF THE PEOPLE AND 70 PRINCIPAL MEN."
Green’s “literal” 2004 and the Hebraic Roots Bible 2012 are different still, reading: “Yea, He struck SEVENTY among the people, FIFTY OUT OF A THOUSAND MEN.” (What does that even mean???)
The NKJV reads the same as the KJB in the text, but it has a ridiculous footnote that reads “OR, He struck SEVENTY men of the people AND FIFTY OXEN OF A MAN.”!
The New Living Translation of 2013, whose text reads "The Lord killed 70 men", also mentions in their footnote: "Perhaps the text should be understood to read 'The LORD killed 70 men and 50 oxen.'"
But the modern scholars are not done yet.
The Holman Christian Standard Bible 2009 has come up with a reading that is different from them all. The HCSB now says: "He struck down 70 men out of 50,000 men."
And The Voice of 2012, one of the new Critical Text versions, actually says: “God struck down 75 men” and then Footnotes “50,000 and 70 men”!!!
Do you think there may be a chance that modern version translators are losing their minds because they keep messing with The Book?
Dan Wallace's NET Version
Surprisingly, even Daniel Wallace and Company's generally goofy NET version also follows the Hebrew texts here and says 50,070 men slain. Then they give us this interesting footnote: "The number 50,070 is surprisingly large, although it finds almost unanimous textual support in the MT and in the ancient versions. Only a few medieval Hebrew mss lack “50,000,” reading simply “70” instead. However, there does not seem to be sufficient external evidence to warrant reading 70 rather than 50,070, although that is done by a number of recent translations (e.g., NAB, NIV, NRSV, NLT). The present translation (RELUCTANTLY) [Note - he actually puts the word "reluctantly" there in his footnote] follows the MT and the ancient versions here."
The Bible versions that correctly read that God struck down 50,070 men are Wycliffe 1395, Coverdale 1535, the Great Bible 1540, Matthew's Bible 1549 - "And he slue of the people fyftyethousand and thre skore & ten persones.", the Bishops' Bible 1568 -"he slue among the people fiftie thousand and three score and ten men", the Geneva Bible 1587, the Douay-Rheims 1610, the King James Bible, Webster's 1833, the RV 1881, ASV 1901, JPS (Jewish Publication Society) 1917, Hebrew Publishing Company Bible 1936, Hebrew Names Version, the 2004 Hebrew Complete Tanach, the NASB 1972 - 1995, the Complete Jewish Bible 1998 - "He killed 50,070 of the people.", the Third Millennium Bible 1998, the International Standard Version - "He struck down 50,070 men among the people" and the 2012 Natural Israelite Bible - "He struck FIFTY THOUSAND AND SEVENTY MEN OF THE PEOPLE."
Other English translations that follow the Hebrew text and tell us that "God stuck 50,070 men" are God's First Truth 1999, Sacred Scriptures Family of Yah 2001, The Word of Yah 1993, Bond Slave Version 2009, Hebraic Transliteration Scripture 2010, Online Interlinear 2010 (André de Mol), Holy Scriptures VW Edition 2010, Conservative Bible 2011 - "even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men”, Interlinear Hebrew-Greek Scriptures 2012 (Mebust), World English Bible 2012 - "he struck fifty thousand seventy of the men", the International Standard Version 2014 - "He struck down 50,070 men", and the Holy Bible, Modern English Version 2014.
Among foreign language Bible that correctly have the Spanish Sagradas Escrituras 1569, Cipriano de Valera 1602, Biblia de las Américas 1997, Reina Valeras of 1909-2011 - "Hizo morir a CINCUENTA MIL SETENTA HOMBRES del pueblo.", Luther's German Bible of 1545 and German Schlachter Bible 2000 - "Und er schlug des Volks fünfzigtausend und siebenzig Mann.", the Portuguese de Almeida 1681 and the Almeida Actualizada "CINQUENTA MIL E SETENTA HOMENS", the Italian Diodati of 1649 -"percosse ancora del popolo CINQUANTAMILA E SETTANTA UOMINI.", the French Martin 1744, the French Ostervald of 1996 and the French Louis Segond of 2007 - "Il frappa 50'070 hommes" and Rumanian Cornilescu and the 2009 Romanian Fidela Bible , the Hungarian Karoli Bible - "Megvere pedig a nép közül ötvenezer és hetven embert.", the Russian Synodal Bible - " и убил из народа пятьдесят тысяч семьдесят человек" = 50,070 men, the Tagalog Ang Dating Biblia 1905 - "sa makatuwid baga'y pumatay siya sa bayan ng pitong pung lalake at limang pung libong tao.", the Dutch Staten Vertaling Bible, and the Modern Greek bible - "και επαταξεν εκ του λαου ανδρας πεντηκοντα χιλιαδας και εβδομηκοντα·"
The Catholic Connection
The Catholic bibles are in their usual disarray. The older Douay-Rheims 1610 and the Douay of 1950 followed the Hebrew reading and agree with the King James Bible by telling us that God smote 50,070 men, but then the Catholic Jerusalem bible of 1968, the St. Joseph New American bible of 1970 and the New Jerusalem bible of 1985 now read like the NIV, ESV, RSV and say God "struck down 70 of them". Then the New Jerusalem bible gives this totally false and faith destroying footnote saying - "70 following Greek, Hebrew adds a gloss 'fifty thousand men'."
These are flat out lies. First of all, the Greek Septuagint as well as the Modern Greek both say 50,070 men, not 70. And secondly, the Hebrew reading is not a "gloss" (a false interpretation, or a scribal error) but is in fact the true, God inspired text!
But all apostate roads lead back to the whore of Babylon and the new "evangelical" bogus bibles are well on their way down this road to full blown apostasy. See Undeniable Proof the ESV, NIV, NASB, Dan Wallace's NET version, Holman Standard are the "new" Vatican versions here -
http://brandplucked.webs.com/realcatholicbibles.htm
The Explanation of the large number 50,070 men.
I know of two possible explanations for this high number of 50,070 slain. Rather than assuming the Hebrew text is in error, as Mr. Gleason, a host of modern Bible commentators, and the NIV, NET, ESV, Holman and modern Catholic version committees, let's attempt the novel approach of believing God and His promises to preserve His words, as He has so faithfully done in the King James Bible.
One possibility, suggested by Mr. Peter Ruckman in his book Problem Texts on pages 171-173, is once the ark had been recovered from the Philistines, it became a sort of tourist attraction for the surrounding Israelites. At this time the population of Israel was some 3 million people. There are within 20 miles of the Levitical city of Bethshemesh, the cities of Zanoah, Jarmuth, Gibeah, Zoreah, Kirjath-jearim, Ajalon, Timnah, Libaah, Gedor, Nezib, Chephirah, Gezer, Chesalon and Ekron. Mr. Ruckman suggests that many came from these nearby towns and cities to view the ark and presumptuously looked into it, and so the LORD smote them.
Another possibility is that the number of 50,070 is the total number of all the people, both Israelites and Philistines, that were slain by God from the time the ark was first taken to this final day of death when the men of Bethshemesh looked into the ark.
In 1 Samuel 4:2,3 we read: “And when they joined in battle, Israel was smitten before the Philistines: and they slew of the army in the field about FOUR THOUSAND MEN. And when the people were come into the camp, the elders of Israel said, Wherefore hath the LORD smitten us to day before the Philistines?” Notice it was the LORD who smote them.
In verse 10 we read of another battle in which “and there was a very great slaughter; for there fell of Israel THIRTY THOUSAND FOOTMEN.” In 5:6,9,11,12 and 6:9 we read of additional men being slain by the LORD. It was God Himself who was behind this great slaughter of both the children of Israel and the Philistines. Four thousand, thirty thousand, and easily a few thousand more in the succeeding battles; thus the figure of 50,070 total men slain by God is quite believable.
Notice the wording of 1 Samuel 6:19 “And he smote of the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.”
It is possible to read this with the understanding that God smote the men of Bethshemesh because they looked into the ark, and the total number of people slain, both Jews and Philistines, throughout this whole episode with the ark of the covenant being taken and its recovery was 50,070.
Matthew Henry also notes: “Some think the seventy men were the Beth-shemites that were slain for looking into the ark, and the 50,000 were those that were slain by the ark, in the land of the Philistines.”
John Gill and another commentator also mention the view that the number of 50,070 includes both the large number of people killed during the battles that occurred during this event of the taking of the ark and when the men of Bethshemesh looked into it.
The modern bibles are riddled with false readings, false statements and unbelief. They are false witnesses to the truth of God, and they are translated by men who do not believe God has been able to preserve His words for us today.
I and many other Christians believe God Almighty has preserved His inerrant words and we have them today in the King James Holy Bible.
To see many more concrete examples of wrong numbers in today's bogus "Catholic" bibles like the NIV, NASB, ESV see the following article
http://brandplucked.webs.com/wrongnumbers.htm
Will Kinney
