SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Yes, ultimately it is a matter of believing:
1. God preserved his words in a Book.
2. God did not preserve his words in a Book.
If you believe he did, the KJB is your only sensible option.
Battle Royale XIV discussion thread
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
Yes, ultimately it is a matter of believing:
1. God preserved his words in a Book.
2. God did not preserve his words in a Book.
If you believe he did, the KJB is your only sensible option.
brandplucked
New member
The King James Bible is the complete and inerrant words of God.
The King James Bible is the complete and inerrant words of God.
Hi Will Duffy and Bob Enyart. I agree with your first statement: "Anyone can choose a Bible to "believe, rely on, and rest on." But that does not make that Bible the only inspired Scripture on earth."
This part is true. Both of you gentlemen have chosen the NKJV and maybe use the KJB at times, but neither one of you really believes that either one of them is the inerrant words of God. You don't. So why not be honest about it and just admit it?
Some people chose to believe (at least very superficially) that the ESV or NIV, or NET or Holman or the Cabbage Patch version is "the best", but that certainly does not make them God's inerrant Book.
And it is just a fact that if you press the modern versions users to the wall to either admit or deny that they really believe their version of choice is the INERRANT and infallible and 100% true words of God, (if they are honest about it) they will admit that they do not.
They will usually go to the pratfall position of The Santa Claus Version stance that only the original autographs were inspired and inerrant. Of course the originals never DID make up a complete Bible and nobody living today has ever seen them, and nobody can tell you for sure what they actually said, but that is the ultimate "bible" most Christians profess to believe in today - the non-existent, phantom "bible" called the originals.
Then both of you gentlemen say "Compared to What?", and that is exactly why you are both card carrying Bible agnostics - you do not know for sure what God said in numerous places of your "bibles" than neither of you actually believes that any of them are His inerrant words.
You have left God out of the picture and think he is some kind of Deistic God who set things in motion, but never bothered to work in history to fulfill His promises to preserve His words and to give us "the book of the LORD" (Isaiah 34:16)
Will Duffy says he thinks there are errors in the King James Bible. OK. How about you actually pick your best example and show it to us? Then we can see if this is a real and provable error in the Book or is the error in your own understanding or mere opinion.
Don't give me the usual laundry list of alleged "universally recognized errors in the KJV" I have seen and dealt with many times over the years. But give us your Number One All Time Best Shot example of a provable error in the King James Bible and we can take a look at it. OK?
Thanks and God bless.
The King James Bible is the complete and inerrant words of God.
Hi Will Duffy and Bob Enyart. I agree with your first statement: "Anyone can choose a Bible to "believe, rely on, and rest on." But that does not make that Bible the only inspired Scripture on earth."
This part is true. Both of you gentlemen have chosen the NKJV and maybe use the KJB at times, but neither one of you really believes that either one of them is the inerrant words of God. You don't. So why not be honest about it and just admit it?
Some people chose to believe (at least very superficially) that the ESV or NIV, or NET or Holman or the Cabbage Patch version is "the best", but that certainly does not make them God's inerrant Book.
And it is just a fact that if you press the modern versions users to the wall to either admit or deny that they really believe their version of choice is the INERRANT and infallible and 100% true words of God, (if they are honest about it) they will admit that they do not.
They will usually go to the pratfall position of The Santa Claus Version stance that only the original autographs were inspired and inerrant. Of course the originals never DID make up a complete Bible and nobody living today has ever seen them, and nobody can tell you for sure what they actually said, but that is the ultimate "bible" most Christians profess to believe in today - the non-existent, phantom "bible" called the originals.
Then both of you gentlemen say "Compared to What?", and that is exactly why you are both card carrying Bible agnostics - you do not know for sure what God said in numerous places of your "bibles" than neither of you actually believes that any of them are His inerrant words.
You have left God out of the picture and think he is some kind of Deistic God who set things in motion, but never bothered to work in history to fulfill His promises to preserve His words and to give us "the book of the LORD" (Isaiah 34:16)
Will Duffy says he thinks there are errors in the King James Bible. OK. How about you actually pick your best example and show it to us? Then we can see if this is a real and provable error in the Book or is the error in your own understanding or mere opinion.
Don't give me the usual laundry list of alleged "universally recognized errors in the KJV" I have seen and dealt with many times over the years. But give us your Number One All Time Best Shot example of a provable error in the King James Bible and we can take a look at it. OK?
Thanks and God bless.
genuineoriginal
New member
It seems like the KJV Only folk have chosen not to trust God in this manner, but to trust the words in the KJV Bible instead.
If they ever lose confidence in the KJV Bible being inerrant, they lose their faith completely and become apostate, turning away from God because He didn't give them the inerrant translation they demand He give them.
If they ever lose confidence in the KJV Bible being inerrant, they lose their faith completely and become apostate, turning away from God because He didn't give them the inerrant translation they demand He give them.
Absolutely not. In what bizzaro world would we lose the KJV ? And the other versions survive ? I would pick the closest one to some select verses . I certainly wouldn't be digging for spelling errors but errors of omission.
Why would it be the ONLY sensible option, when both you and I could show the gospel of salvation from either the KJV or the NIV?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
If you believe that every single word is perfect, the KJB is the only sensible option.
We can show someone the gospel if it was written on a gum wrapper, found in a trash can.
Exactly my point.We can show someone the gospel if it was written on a gum wrapper, found in a trash can.
You don't have to hold a KJV in your hand, or even ever had one at all (as in: never bought one or was given one).
If all you had ever seen or read was the NIV, you would be equipped to show them the gospel of their salvation.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Yes, the gospel.
But after we are saved, we need to be throughly furnished unto all good works.
James 1:22-23 KJV -
Thank you for that information.
I looked up these sites but none of them made any claims about the version they were using, which I found to be singularly unhelpful.
So I did a search of currently available KJBs both in print and online. Whilst there are a great many different versions available, the 1769 Cambridge seems to be the one assumed most often to be the authoritative version and I came across this from a FAQ in relation to an online version that claims to be the KJB Cambridge 1769 version:
On the same site was this:
Whilst it is not explicit, it implies that the only differences between the 1611 version (it also seems to assume there was only one 1611 version) are differences of spelling and character font.
Can you confirm that this is your understanding: that the inspired, preserved and inerrant Bible is the 1769 Cambridge edition which is available in full on this site and that you also agree that there were no differences other than spellings and typeface with the 1611? If there were printing errors in the Cambridge 1769 version, then can you confirm that they have since been fixed and that therefore can you confirm that the edition which I have linked here is the real inerrant thing and hence that any subsequent versions (The RV for example) are erroneous and to be disregarded?
So Bible scholars are wasting their timing studying it? Wow.
brandplucked
New member
Baby Christians and their comic book "bibles"
Baby Christians and their comic book "bibles"
Yes, you can learn the gospel message in any bible version. I have already said the same thing. But the polls show that the majority of Christians do not believe the NIV, or the ESV, NASB, NKJV, NET, Holman or any other bible is actually the 100% true words of God.
And many of them are abandoning the faith and their church. Biblical ignorance has now reached what even the modern version users refer to as "scandalous"
The NIV has lots of corruptions in it, both textual and theological and nobody seriously believes any of them - 1973, 1977, 1984 or the 2011 editions are 100% true. So, if you can't believe the names and numbers and verses that surround the "gospel message" parts are totally true, then why would the gospel parts be true?
Fake bibles DO Teach False Doctrines
30 examples.
http://brandplucked.webs.com/fakebiblesdoctrine.htm
Baby Christians and their comic book "bibles"
Yes, you can learn the gospel message in any bible version. I have already said the same thing. But the polls show that the majority of Christians do not believe the NIV, or the ESV, NASB, NKJV, NET, Holman or any other bible is actually the 100% true words of God.
And many of them are abandoning the faith and their church. Biblical ignorance has now reached what even the modern version users refer to as "scandalous"
The NIV has lots of corruptions in it, both textual and theological and nobody seriously believes any of them - 1973, 1977, 1984 or the 2011 editions are 100% true. So, if you can't believe the names and numbers and verses that surround the "gospel message" parts are totally true, then why would the gospel parts be true?
Fake bibles DO Teach False Doctrines
30 examples.
http://brandplucked.webs.com/fakebiblesdoctrine.htm
brandplucked
New member
The King James Bible is the complete and inerrant words of God.
The King James Bible is the complete and inerrant words of God.
Not if they are King James Bible believers. Otherwise, Yes, they are just spinning their wheels and coming up with their own opinions, that are different from everybody else's opinions.
"In those days there was no king in Israel; every many did that which was right in his own eyes." Judges 21:25
The King James Bible is the complete and inerrant words of God.
Not if they are King James Bible believers. Otherwise, Yes, they are just spinning their wheels and coming up with their own opinions, that are different from everybody else's opinions.
"In those days there was no king in Israel; every many did that which was right in his own eyes." Judges 21:25
brandplucked
New member
Biblical Illiteracy has now reached "scandalous" levels
Biblical Illiteracy has now reached "scandalous" levels
This is Lie Number Five from my article "Six Lies Modern Scholarship Tells Us."
http://brandplucked.webs.com/liesofmodscholarship.htm
The Six Lies Modern Scholarship Tells *Us *
**
Lie Number One - We now have older and better manuscripts.
*
Lie Number Two - Vaticanus and Sinaiticus Are The Best Manuscripts*
*
Lie Number Three - We Are Getting Closer To The Original Autographs
*
Lie Number Four - Erasmus Was A Catholic, so the King James Bible is also a Catholic Bible.
*
Lie Number Five - We Now Have More Knowledge About The Bible
*
Lie Number Six - Professional Liars Who SAY "I believe the Bible IS*the infallible words of God."
*
*
Lie Number Five - We Now Have More Knowledge About The Bible
*
The truth of the matter is that with the widespread use and acceptance of these modern versions the level of Biblical Illiteracy has reached scandalous and epidemic proportions. *Read more about this here -
*
http://www.religiontoday.com/column...ical-illiteracy-its-our-problem-1270946.html*
*
A recent Gallup poll reveals*"Americans revere the Bible--but, by and large, they don't read it. And because they don't read it, they have become a nation of biblical illiterates." How bad is it? Researchers tell us that it's worse than most could imagine. Fewer than half of all adults can name the four gospels. Many Christians cannot identify more than two or three of the disciples. According to data from the Barna Research Group, 60 percent of Americans can't name even five of the Ten Commandments. "No wonder people break the Ten Commandments all the time. They don't know what they are," said George Barna, president of the firm. The bottom line? "Increasingly, America is biblically illiterate."*
*
Multiple surveys reveal the problem in stark terms. According to 82 percent of Americans, "God helps those who help themselves," is a Bible verse. Those identified as born-again Christians did better--by one percent....Some of the statistics are enough to perplex even those aware of the problem. A Barna poll indicated that at least 12 percent of adults believe that Joan of Arc was Noah's wife. Another survey of graduating high school seniors revealed that over 50 percent thought that Sodom and Gomorrah were husband and wife. A considerable number of respondents to one poll indicated that the Sermon on the Mount was preached by Billy Graham. We are in big trouble.The larger scandal is biblical ignorance among Christians. Choose whichever statistic or survey you like, the general pattern is the same. America's Christians know less and less about the Bible. It shows." (End of article portions)
The Lord Jesus Christ tells us in Matthew 7:17-20 that a good tree brings forth good fruit and a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit, and that "by their fruits ye shall know them."
The King James Bible has consistently brought forth good fruit for over 400 years now, while the imposter versions come and go almost as fast as the seasons change. The KJB has been used of God to convert multitudes of lost sinners into Bible believing children of God. It was used to begin the world wide missionary outreach, and is the only Bible still believed by multiplied thousands of blood bought saints of God to be the complete, inspired and inerrant words of the living God.
By contrast, the*influx of the modern Bible Babble Buffet versions has produced more confusion, Biblical ignorance and unbelief in the inerrancy of the Scriptures than at any time in history.
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Luke 8:8
God bless.*
Biblical Illiteracy has now reached "scandalous" levels
This is Lie Number Five from my article "Six Lies Modern Scholarship Tells Us."
http://brandplucked.webs.com/liesofmodscholarship.htm
The Six Lies Modern Scholarship Tells *Us *
**
Lie Number One - We now have older and better manuscripts.
*
Lie Number Two - Vaticanus and Sinaiticus Are The Best Manuscripts*
*
Lie Number Three - We Are Getting Closer To The Original Autographs
*
Lie Number Four - Erasmus Was A Catholic, so the King James Bible is also a Catholic Bible.
*
Lie Number Five - We Now Have More Knowledge About The Bible
*
Lie Number Six - Professional Liars Who SAY "I believe the Bible IS*the infallible words of God."
*
*
Lie Number Five - We Now Have More Knowledge About The Bible
*
The truth of the matter is that with the widespread use and acceptance of these modern versions the level of Biblical Illiteracy has reached scandalous and epidemic proportions. *Read more about this here -
*
http://www.religiontoday.com/column...ical-illiteracy-its-our-problem-1270946.html*
*
A recent Gallup poll reveals*"Americans revere the Bible--but, by and large, they don't read it. And because they don't read it, they have become a nation of biblical illiterates." How bad is it? Researchers tell us that it's worse than most could imagine. Fewer than half of all adults can name the four gospels. Many Christians cannot identify more than two or three of the disciples. According to data from the Barna Research Group, 60 percent of Americans can't name even five of the Ten Commandments. "No wonder people break the Ten Commandments all the time. They don't know what they are," said George Barna, president of the firm. The bottom line? "Increasingly, America is biblically illiterate."*
*
Multiple surveys reveal the problem in stark terms. According to 82 percent of Americans, "God helps those who help themselves," is a Bible verse. Those identified as born-again Christians did better--by one percent....Some of the statistics are enough to perplex even those aware of the problem. A Barna poll indicated that at least 12 percent of adults believe that Joan of Arc was Noah's wife. Another survey of graduating high school seniors revealed that over 50 percent thought that Sodom and Gomorrah were husband and wife. A considerable number of respondents to one poll indicated that the Sermon on the Mount was preached by Billy Graham. We are in big trouble.The larger scandal is biblical ignorance among Christians. Choose whichever statistic or survey you like, the general pattern is the same. America's Christians know less and less about the Bible. It shows." (End of article portions)
The Lord Jesus Christ tells us in Matthew 7:17-20 that a good tree brings forth good fruit and a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit, and that "by their fruits ye shall know them."
The King James Bible has consistently brought forth good fruit for over 400 years now, while the imposter versions come and go almost as fast as the seasons change. The KJB has been used of God to convert multitudes of lost sinners into Bible believing children of God. It was used to begin the world wide missionary outreach, and is the only Bible still believed by multiplied thousands of blood bought saints of God to be the complete, inspired and inerrant words of the living God.
By contrast, the*influx of the modern Bible Babble Buffet versions has produced more confusion, Biblical ignorance and unbelief in the inerrancy of the Scriptures than at any time in history.
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Luke 8:8
God bless.*
brandplucked
New member
The King James Bible is the complete and inerrant words of God.
The King James Bible is the complete and inerrant words of God.
Modern Version Biblical Illiteracy
This is just a portion of a recent article by a concerned Christian and the man is not even King James only.
http://www.teachingtheword.org/apps...leid=78057&fldKeywords=&fldAuthor=&fldTopic=0
The young people in churches who say that only the original manuscripts of the Bible were inerrant are for the most part Biblically illiterate. A survey commissioned for Christianity Today magazine found that 80% of Evangelical young people could not place Moses, Adam, David, Solomon, and Abraham in chronological order. 85% could not place the major events of Jesus' earthly life in the actual order in which they happened. Only 20% knew to look in the book of Acts for the account of Paul's missionary journeys. Only 60% of these young people in what claim to be Bible-believing churches could locate the Ten Commandments in Exodus chapter 20. Only 33% knew where to find the Sermon on the Mount.2 Although the survey cited in this particular article did not mention it, one wonders if these young people knew how to find any passage where the Bible says how they are to be saved from sin.
What about the adults? Among the people who call themselves Bible-believing Christians in America today, less than one adult in six reads the Bible at least once a week outside of a church service. 35% of the adults in Bible-believing churches never read the Bible at all.3 Yet the latest fad religious books sell by the millions and enjoy avid readership.
Consider these statistics on Evangelicals' beliefs about essential doctrines: 37% of adults in Evangelical churches do not believe the Bible is totally accurate. 45% do not believe Jesus Christ was sinless. 52% do not believe Satan is real. 57% do not believe that Jesus is the only way to eternal life. 57% believe that good works play a part in gaining eternal life. A similar number of Evangelical adults believe that other religions are valid ways to God.4
Gary M. Burge, "The Greatest Story Never Read," Christianity Today, August 9, 1999.
Based on surveys by Barna Research, www.barna.org; Bible Literacy Center, centerforbibleengagement.com.
These statistics are from Barna Research, www.barna.org, especially the Barna Research report, Religious Beliefs Vary Widely By Denomination, 2001.
Source: Barna Research, http://www.barna.org/
The King James Bible is the complete and inerrant words of God.
Modern Version Biblical Illiteracy
This is just a portion of a recent article by a concerned Christian and the man is not even King James only.
http://www.teachingtheword.org/apps...leid=78057&fldKeywords=&fldAuthor=&fldTopic=0
The young people in churches who say that only the original manuscripts of the Bible were inerrant are for the most part Biblically illiterate. A survey commissioned for Christianity Today magazine found that 80% of Evangelical young people could not place Moses, Adam, David, Solomon, and Abraham in chronological order. 85% could not place the major events of Jesus' earthly life in the actual order in which they happened. Only 20% knew to look in the book of Acts for the account of Paul's missionary journeys. Only 60% of these young people in what claim to be Bible-believing churches could locate the Ten Commandments in Exodus chapter 20. Only 33% knew where to find the Sermon on the Mount.2 Although the survey cited in this particular article did not mention it, one wonders if these young people knew how to find any passage where the Bible says how they are to be saved from sin.
What about the adults? Among the people who call themselves Bible-believing Christians in America today, less than one adult in six reads the Bible at least once a week outside of a church service. 35% of the adults in Bible-believing churches never read the Bible at all.3 Yet the latest fad religious books sell by the millions and enjoy avid readership.
Consider these statistics on Evangelicals' beliefs about essential doctrines: 37% of adults in Evangelical churches do not believe the Bible is totally accurate. 45% do not believe Jesus Christ was sinless. 52% do not believe Satan is real. 57% do not believe that Jesus is the only way to eternal life. 57% believe that good works play a part in gaining eternal life. A similar number of Evangelical adults believe that other religions are valid ways to God.4
Gary M. Burge, "The Greatest Story Never Read," Christianity Today, August 9, 1999.
Based on surveys by Barna Research, www.barna.org; Bible Literacy Center, centerforbibleengagement.com.
These statistics are from Barna Research, www.barna.org, especially the Barna Research report, Religious Beliefs Vary Widely By Denomination, 2001.
Source: Barna Research, http://www.barna.org/
brandplucked
New member
USA Today article says of those who actually read the Bible -
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/2011-04-21-king-james-bible.htm
Bible readers prefer King James version
By Cathy Lynn Grossman, USA TODAY
Updated 4/21/2011 2:54 PM |
*
*
*
If thou hast a Bible in the house right now and readeth it at least once a month, chances are strong it’s the majestic King James Version of the Bible in Elizabethan English, a new survey out today finds.
• 
• By Rhyne Piggott, USA TODAY The first King James Bible was printed in New York in 1792. The King James version is the Bible most adults own, according to a new survey.
•
• Of the 89% of U.S. adults who own at least one Bible, 67% own a King James, which marks its 400th anniversary this year, according to LifeWay Research, a Nashville-based Christian research agency.
Although there are two dozen English-language Bibles in many contemporary translations, the King James Version reigns even more supreme among those who actually read their Bibles: 82% of those who read the Good Book at least once a month rely on the translation that first brought the Scripture to the English-speaking masses worldwide.
Age makes a difference. Seventy-six percent of Bible owners 55 and older have a King James, compared with 56% of those under 35, according to the survey of 1,004 adults, conducted March 2-6.
This version’s now-archaic phrasing and vocabulary don’t seem to be a problem of casting “ye your pearls before swine,” as it says in Matthew 7:6.
When LifeWay asked about readers’ experience with the language dating back to 1611, many called it “beautiful” (31%) or “easy to remember” (23%). It is, after all, the book that gave English countless idioms such as “salt of the earth,” “an eye for an eye,” “at our wit’s end” and “oh ye of little faith.”
Some called it hard to understand (27%) or outdated (16%).
About two in 10 of those under age 35 reported trouble understanding it, compared with about three in 10 of their elders.
“Christians believe that God’s Word is truth and that truth is conveyed through language — thus translations have always been integral to the spread of Christianity,” said Scott McConnell, director of LifeWay Research.
“It is hard to overstate the influence of the KJV,” he said.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/2011-04-21-king-james-bible.htm
Bible readers prefer King James version
By Cathy Lynn Grossman, USA TODAY
Updated 4/21/2011 2:54 PM |
*
*
*
If thou hast a Bible in the house right now and readeth it at least once a month, chances are strong it’s the majestic King James Version of the Bible in Elizabethan English, a new survey out today finds.
• 
• By Rhyne Piggott, USA TODAY The first King James Bible was printed in New York in 1792. The King James version is the Bible most adults own, according to a new survey.
•
• Of the 89% of U.S. adults who own at least one Bible, 67% own a King James, which marks its 400th anniversary this year, according to LifeWay Research, a Nashville-based Christian research agency.
Although there are two dozen English-language Bibles in many contemporary translations, the King James Version reigns even more supreme among those who actually read their Bibles: 82% of those who read the Good Book at least once a month rely on the translation that first brought the Scripture to the English-speaking masses worldwide.
Age makes a difference. Seventy-six percent of Bible owners 55 and older have a King James, compared with 56% of those under 35, according to the survey of 1,004 adults, conducted March 2-6.
This version’s now-archaic phrasing and vocabulary don’t seem to be a problem of casting “ye your pearls before swine,” as it says in Matthew 7:6.
When LifeWay asked about readers’ experience with the language dating back to 1611, many called it “beautiful” (31%) or “easy to remember” (23%). It is, after all, the book that gave English countless idioms such as “salt of the earth,” “an eye for an eye,” “at our wit’s end” and “oh ye of little faith.”
Some called it hard to understand (27%) or outdated (16%).
About two in 10 of those under age 35 reported trouble understanding it, compared with about three in 10 of their elders.
“Christians believe that God’s Word is truth and that truth is conveyed through language — thus translations have always been integral to the spread of Christianity,” said Scott McConnell, director of LifeWay Research.
“It is hard to overstate the influence of the KJV,” he said.
JoshuaTheRed
New member
Debating Open Theism
Debating Open Theism
I am not willing to debate bible versions, but I am willing to debate the topic of Open Theism vs. Hard Determinism.
Debating Open Theism
I am not willing to debate bible versions, but I am willing to debate the topic of Open Theism vs. Hard Determinism.
Patrick, I think you're missing the point here. Let's try this: If the King James says "faith" and another translation says "hope," how do you know which one is more accurate?
How do you get from "I believe God preserved his words in a Book" to "the KJB is your only sensible option"? That appears to me to be an impassable gulf.
P.S. I couldn't help but notice you did not capitalize the "h" in His which was referring to God. And you capitalized the "b" in Book. Was that intentional?
