Battle Royale XIV discussion thread

chrysostom

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
brandplucked said:
your fake bibles need to be made fun of. We do not take them seriously.

Here is a real gem from the "scholarly" Vatican Version called the ESV. It is the same liberal RSV garbage in a new bag.


1 Samuel 13:1 Here we read: “Saul reigned ONE year; and when he had reigned TWO years over Israel, Saul chose him three thousand men of Israel.” reading - ONE/TWO years (NKJV, KJB, Geneva, Judaica Press Tanach, Orthodox Jewish Bible), or 40/32 (NASB 1972-77) or 30/42 (NASB 1995, NIV), OR 30 years/ 40 years (NET) or _____years and______and two years (RSV, NRSV, ESV 2001 edition, St. Joseph New American Bible 1970, Catholic New Jerusalem 1985), or "was 40 years old...and when he had reigned 2 years" (ASV 1901, Amplified bible 1987) or "____years old and reigned 2 years" (Complete Jewish bible, Knox bible, , Jehovah Witness New World Translation) or "was 30 years old...ruled for 42 years" (ISV, Common English Bible) or “32 years old...reigned for 22 years” in the 1989 Revised English Bible, or as the Jehovah Witness New World Translation has it - I Samuel 13:1 - “Saul was . . .* years old when he became king, and for two years he reigned over Israel. “ Footnote: The number is missing in the Hebrew text." or even "was 50 years old and reigned 22 years." in the New English Bible of 1970!

But wait. There's even more. The ESV 2001 edition had "Saul was________years old when he began to reign, and he reigned____and two years over Israel." But now the 2011 edition of the ESV has come out (I have a hard copy right here in front of me) and it now has the perhaps even more ridiculous reading of "Saul LIVED FOR ONE YEAR AND THEN BECAME KING, and when he had reigned FOR TWO YEARS over Israel, Saul chose 3000 men of Israel...". Think about it. "Saul lived for one year and then became king". They just get loopier and loopier, don't they?

Can you guess which other version reads this way? You got it; the Catholic Douay-Rheims 1610 and the Douay Version 1950 which read: "Saul was A CHILD OF ONE YEAR WHEN HE BEGAN TO REIGN, and he reigned two years over Israel."
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is that all you got?

who cares about 1 sam 13:1?
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

New member
drbrumley said:
I was just asking. Besides your the one who made the claim he was wrong.
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And I was just asking if you knew how to do it yourself.

Here is a link that is impartial to the issue with a lexicon and concordance for the Greek word in question.
πάσχα
It even lists how many times the word is translated as Passover or as Easter in the KJV.
Passover (28x), Easter (1x).

This leads to the question on why the word that is translated 28 times as Passover is translated as Easter in one instance.

The simple answer is that it was translated that way in the Bishops' Bible and the translators of the King James Version left it that way in their translation.
Bishops' Bible Acts 12

The most common argument by the KJV Only advocates is that Luke was right in calling it Easter. However, Luke did not call it Easter, Luke used the same Greek word he used for Passover. It was the translators of the English Bibles that called it Easter in this one instance while calling it Passover in the others.
"Pascha" meant Easter to Luke, the narrator of Acts 12:4

The other argument by the KJV Only advocates is that the English language translators deliberately called it Easter in Acts to indicate that this was a Christianized Passover instead of an ordinary one like the disciples celebrated with Jesus.

However, there are no notes from the translators that make this claim of a Christianized Passover, it is merely speculation by KJV Only advocates after the fact to try to explain a strange word translation that appears only in the KJV Bible.
 
drbrumley

drbrumley

Well-known member
To further illustrate the point..

Numbers 28:16-18:
"And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD.
17 And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.
18 In the first day shall be an holy convocation;ye shall do no manner of servile work therein:"

And in the Greek (Codex Sinaiticus)....Acts 12:3,4

3 And, seeing that it was pleasing to the Jews, he apprehended Peter also (but these were the days of unleavened bread);

4 whom having seized he put in prison, delivering him to four tetrads of soldiers to guard him, intending after passover to bring him out to the people.

Not sure what GenuineOriginal wants to prove using the Greek, but the point still stands.
 
brandplucked

brandplucked

New member
Easter is Correct in Acts 2:4

Easter is Correct in Acts 2:4

drbrumley said:
We have? I only saw you mention it in post 493 to George Afflect. If it was brought up earlier, I apologize I didn't see it and if you can be kind to link to it.



You and the newb. Only a couple posts doesn't equate to "quite a bit."



Because to me, scripture answers your questions about scripture. That's what I believe. So I look at this story about Peter's arrest and look at the clues. First clue is I go back to Exodus. The Passover was on the 14th day of the month (Abib) correct?


Exodus 12:13-18: "And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
17 And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.
18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even."



Now couple that with the events of Peter in Acts 12:3,4


3And when he saw that it pleased the Jews, he proceeded to seize Peter also. And those were the days of unleavened bread. 4And when he had taken him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to guard him; intending after the Passover to bring him forth to the people.



So here we have this taken place in "those were the days of unleavened bread." Clearly in the Exodus passage above, the feast of unleavened bread started in day 2 of this 8 day event. So the Passover was already done. Unless you have some evidence I am missing, and you can be so kind to supply it here for me to look over, this is what I have to go on.

Thanks.
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Hi drbrumley, Yes, you are missing some things. May I suggest you actually read the article.

http://brandplucked.webs.com/easter.htm

God bless,
 
drbrumley

drbrumley

Well-known member
genuineoriginal said:
And I was just asking if you knew how to do it yourself.

Here is a link that is impartial to the issue with a lexicon and concordance for the Greek word in question.
πάσχα
It even lists how many times the word is translated as Passover or as Easter in the KJV.
Passover (28x), Easter (1x).
Click to expand...

:up: Yes I know how, it was just for expedience on my part. Sorry for being short with you.

genuineoriginal said:
This leads to the question on why the word that is translated 28 times as Passover is translated as Easter in one instance.



The simple answer is that it was translated that way in the Bishops' Bible and the translators of the King James Version left it that way in their translation.
Bishops' Bible Acts 12

The most common argument by the KJV Only advocates is that Luke was right in calling it Easter. However, Luke did not call it Easter, Luke used the same Greek word he used for Passover. It was the translators of the English Bibles that called it Easter in this one instance while calling it Passover in the others.
"Pascha" meant Easter to Luke, the narrator of Acts 12:4

The other argument by the KJV Only advocates is that the English language translators deliberately called it Easter in Acts to indicate that this was a Christianized Passover instead of an ordinary one like the disciples celebrated with Jesus.

However, there are no notes from the translators that make this claim of a Christianized Passover, it is merely speculation by KJV Only advocates after the fact to try to explain a strange word translation that appears only in the KJV Bible.
Click to expand...

I answer your question this way......

The plain reading of the scripture gives credence to the thought the passover was ALREADY completed. Everyone knows the Numbers and Exodus passages already alluded to by me here. But it seems to me I have ONLY one bible that says it the way it should, based upon the texts. The events quoted in scripture give it away. Why was it translated Passover in the manuscripts, who knows. All I do know is the events we are talking about mean exactly what they say, that Peter was arrested AFTER the Passover, during the week of unleavened bread. So simple deduction says it CAN'T mean Passover.
 
brandplucked

brandplucked

New member
Easter is Correct in Acts 2:4

Easter is Correct in Acts 2:4

genuineoriginal said:
The Greek proves that this bold statement by KJV Only advocates is not true.
"Pascha" meant Easter to Luke, the narrator of Acts 12:4
Click to expand...

go. You obviously have not done your homework. You either did not read the article I posted (which is typical) or you have a very serious reading comprehension problem.

The Greek word paska (τὸ πάσχα) means Easter today. The Oxford Greek-English Learner's Dicionary 2012 lists the word (τὸ πάσχα) and the very first definition is Easter. The second one is Passover. The same is true of the Collins Greek-English Dicitonary 2003, and in Divry's Modern English-Greek Dictionary 1991. All three of these modern Greek-English Dictionaries list Easter as the first meaning, and Passover as the second meaning.

Here is an online Greek translation site that is very easy to use. Just click on the link and go to the site. On the left hand side you can type in the Greek word Pascha, or on the right hand side you can type in the word Easter. See what the Greek word means, and how to say Easter in Greek.

http://www.kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon/


The Greek word translated as Easter is pascha. Some say the word should only be translated as Passover and not Easter. The KJV is not alone in translating this word as Easter. The Tyndale 1525, Coverdale 1535, Cranmer's bible (The Great Bible) 1540, Matthew's Bible 1549, Bishop's Bible 1568, the Geneva Bible 1557 edition - all preceding the King James Bible.

Then we have The Bill Bible 1671, Mace's New Testament 1729, the Thomas Pyle Paraphrase New Testament 1795 (Clarke N.T.), the modern KJV 21st Century Version 1994, the Third Millenium Bible 1998, God's First Truth 1999, the Evidence Bible 2003, the Bond Slave Version 2009 and the BRG Bible 2012 all read "after EASTER" in Acts 12:4.



Martin Luther also translated this word as Easter in 1545, and the German Luther version of 1912 also reads Easter (Ostern). The German word for Passover is a completely different word. In German today they express Happy Easter by saying "Frohe Ostern".

Likewise the 2009 Romanian Fidela Bible reads Easter in Acts 12:4 - Pasti. Just go to a good Romanian dictionary or translation site and type in the word Pasti; the translation is "Easter". Romanian - Paste Fericit! = Happy Easter!

The Romanian Fidela Bible of 2009 reads in Acts 12:4 - "Și după ce l-a prins, l-a pus în închisoare şi l-a predat la patru grupe de patru soldaţi să îl păzească, vrând, după Paşti, să îl ducă înaintea poporului." And the translation is: "And when caught, put in jail and handed him over to four groups of four soldiers to guard him, wanting after EASTER to bring him before the people."

A note regarding Fidela's (Romanian) use of "Paşti" in Acts 12:4. - The alternative spelling "Paşti" was used to match the KJB "Easter" [and of course Acts 12:4 is the only place where "Paşti" is used in Fidela], whereas the word used for Passover in Fidela is "paşte". There is no other way to keep them distinct in Romanian.



The Geneva New Testament was first published in 1557 and read "Easter" in Acts 12:4- "entending after EASTER to bringe him forth unto the people". You can see the 1557 Geneva Bible at this site here:

http://bible.zoxt.net/hex/hex.htm

Greek -Καλό πάσχα (Kaló pásha)= Happy Easter; Hebrew - pe'sah; Latin - Prospera Pascha sit = Happy Easter; French - Joyeuses Pâques = Happy Easter; Danish - God påske = Happy Easter; Russian - Пасха; Romanian - Paste Fericit! = Happy Easter; Portuguese - Feliz Páscoa = Happy Easter; Italian - Buona Pasqua = Happy Easter; Indonesian - Selamat Paskah = Happy Easter; Albanian - Gëzuar Pashkët = Happy Easter; Catalan (Spoken in Spain) Bona Pasqua = Happy Easter; Chamorro - Felis Påsgua = Happy Easter; Corsican - Bona Pasqua = Happy Easter; Dutch - Vrolijk Pasen = Happy Easter; Galician - Boas Pascuas = Happy Easter; Hawaiian - Hau ʻoli Pakoa = Happy Easter; Modern Hebrew - chag pascha same'ach = Happy Easter; Icelandic - Gleðilega páska = Happy Easter; Norwegian - God påske = Happy Easter; Swahili - Heri kwa sikukuu ya PASAKA = Happy Easter; Tagalog - Maligayang PASKO ng pagkabuhay = Happy Easter; Turkish - PASKALYA yortunuz kutlu olsun = Happy Easter; Welsh - Pasg Hapus = Happy Easter; Zulu - IPHASIKA elijabulayo = Happy Easter; Spanish - Feliz pascua = Happy Easter."
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

New member
drbrumley said:
All I do know is the events we are talking about mean exactly what they say, that Peter was arrested AFTER the Passover, during the week of unleavened bread. So simple deduction says it CAN'T mean Passover.
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You would have a valid argument if the Feast of Unleavened Bread had not already been called the Passover by Luke.


Luke 22:1
1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.​

 
drbrumley

drbrumley

Well-known member
genuineoriginal said:
You would have a valid argument if the Feast of Unleavened Bread had not already been called the Passover by Luke.


Luke 22:1
1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.​

Click to expand...

Yes, it is an 8 day event. Day 1, Passover.....Day 2 starts the feast of unleavened bread for the next 7 days.

I get exactly what Luke is saying.
 
brandplucked

brandplucked

New member
Cambridge KJBs

Cambridge KJBs

patrick jane said:
WK, I just bought a Hendrickson Bible, KJV - it has a preface to the 1873 edition - Is mine not a Cambridge ? Is it ok ?
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Hi Patrick. I am not familiar with that one. There are about 10 different publishing houses that print King James Bibles. Since there is no copyright on the KJB (except formally but not much in practice in England) you can print King James Bibles in your basement if you wish.

Some publisher have taken it upon themselves to "modify" in various ways the text or the spelling of some words.

I agree with the list Mr. Religion posted except for the one in 1 John 5:8. My Cambridge and the ones you can get from these two publishers here in the USA have a capital Spirit in 1 John 5:8 as well as 5:7. That is the standard Cambridge edition and it is how the original 1611 read too - with a capital S in verse 8.

I have an article on this verse as well.

http://brandplucked.webs.com/spiritorspirit.htm

Buy a quality King James Bible at cost
A great place to buy quality made King James Holy Bibles

Bearing Precious Seed

http://www.bpsmilford.org



And here is another one

http://www.localchurchbiblepublishers.com/

God bless.
 
Ktoyou

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
ddevonb said:
Totally missed my point. The point is while modern English is often used in international commerce, there was never a time in history that the English that was spoken in the days of King James became that international language.
It would seem more likely that If God's intent was to preserve the Bible in one language, it would more likely be modern English not the old English that was never an international language.
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I think you may be confusing direction with intent
 
D

Danoh

New member
brandplucked said:
tetelestai, Easter is correct in Acts 12:4. The KJB translators were not dummies and they did not have a collective "senior moment" when they translated it this way.

The word paska MEANS Easter just as much as it means Passover.

Have you read the article?

http://brandplucked.webs.com/easter.htm

There are many of us who believe Easter is correct - a growing number in fact, and not all of them are KJB onlies.

Someone else posted an article by Nick Sayers on Easter too. He is not even KJB only and he supports the idea that Easter means Easter and for good reason.
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Actually, BP, I study only from a KJB.

At the same time, over time, I have come to hold that the process of Refinement within the process of Preservation (both of which are affirmed in Scripture and) that resulted in the KJV, is yet over.

That is where I am at, and am fine with it. As when the faithful within Israel were left with a Word "famine" for a time, but were fine, and then when they found it "were glad."

As those who "died in faith" before the NT was written.

As when Apollos was a "man... instructed in the way of the Lord...fervent in the spirit...spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John."

Anyway, here is another study on the word Easter as to Acts 12:4...

http://www.kjvtoday.com/home/easter-or-passover-in-acts-124

The irony - in Spanish, the word for Passover and Easter are the same word "Pascua."

The author of the article in this link almost made this same "Pascua" argument.

Somewhat of a shorthand of the above (as to the sunrise sense):

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=paschal

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Easter&allowed_in_frame=0
 
1

1Way1Truth1Life

New member
genuineoriginal said:
The Bible, yes even the KJV, has already given the answer, but you refuse to hear it.

You think the Word of God is something that you can hold in your hand.

But the Word of God is not something you can hold in your hand, as it is written, by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

It is also written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Why are you wanting to hold the Word of God in your hands?

You should be desiring to hear the Word of God and hold it in your heart.

That is something you will not be able to do as long as you keep making an idol of the KJV Bible.
Click to expand...

All net
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
drbrumley said:
So the Passover was already done. Unless you have some evidence I am missing, and you can be so kind to supply it here for me to look over, this is what I have to go on.
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(Ezk 45:21 KJV) In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.

(Luke 22:1 KJV) Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
 
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