"Infinite life can come to an end"????
What are you talking about?
Battle Royale VIII applicants wanted!
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What are you talking about?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Turbo,
Here are the words of Jeremy in regard to the "eleven Apostles":
"The point here is, Christ is speaking to the 11 remaining Apostles, not some arbitrary group of people. Christ is warning them to remain faithful, or they will suffer the same fate as Judas."
From the thread on the "General Theolgy" forum titled "Does the 'Parable of the Vine and Branches' Teach Loss of Salvation?"(03-01-2004 06:03AM).
In His grace,--Jerry
Jerry I knew you where you were heading with this.
And it sort of boggles my mind the extent of your misunderstanding.
Losing eternal life in regard to salvation means to lose eternal life WITH Christ in heaven. It doesn't mean losing the eternal nature of ones soul no matter what dispensation you are discussing.
Therefore your point about eternity and time and eternal life is entirely baseless.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Knight,
We are not speaking of losing "the eternal nature of one's soul".Instead,the reference is in regard to losing "eternal salvation".
The following words of the Lord Jesus are in regard to "eternal salvation":
"He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting (eternal) life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life"(Jn.5:24).
Here is what Jeremy says about this verse:
"Yes Jerry, the "life" is eternal. God "gives" them eternal life. However, as I've already shown, they were not secure. They could "stop believing" and lose eternal life."
This can be found on "The Attributes of God" forum and on the thread titled "A Challenge for the followers of Bob Enyart"(02-25-2004 04:54 AM).
In His grace,--Jerry
Yea... your getting pasted in BR VII has everyone afraid of suffering the same fate.
:kookoo:
Smackarama!!
*Acts9_12Out*
Member
Jerry,
Let's get ready to rumble! I just saw this and would love to whoop up on you once again!
--Jeremy
Let's get ready to rumble! I just saw this and would love to whoop up on you once again!
--Jeremy
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Jeremy,
Before you get ready to "whoop it up on" me you better first be able to explain why the word "eternal" does not always mean "eternal".
In His grace,--Jerry
Before you get ready to "whoop it up on" me you better first be able to explain why the word "eternal" does not always mean "eternal".
In His grace,--Jerry
*Acts9_12Out*
Member
Jerry,
Does "eternal" have a beginning? If so, when is that? If not, then you have serious problems since each believer "receives" eternal life at some starting point, right? Hahahahahaha! Good luck, and let the whooping commence!
--Jeremy
Does "eternal" have a beginning? If so, when is that? If not, then you have serious problems since each believer "receives" eternal life at some starting point, right? Hahahahahaha! Good luck, and let the whooping commence!
--Jeremy
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Jeremy,
I keep waiting to you to reply on the thread where we are discussing this subject.
In answer to your question,all the Greek experts that I can find say that one of the meanings of "eternal" is "without end,never to cease,everlasting"("Thayer's Greek English Lexicon").
You say that an "eternal" life may come to an end,but I have yet to find any Greek expert who says that something "eternal" has an end!
Here are the words of the Lord Jesus Himself,and He says that "eternal" life can indeed have a beginning:
"But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life"(Mk.10:30).
It is you who has problems,and that is because your ideas are in direct conflict with what the meaning assigned to the word "eternal" by the Greek experts as well as what the Lord Jesus Christ revealed.
He says that those who have received "eternal life" shall never perish:
"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish"(Jn.10:28).
You say that the Jewish believers who received "eternal life" can indeed perish despite the clear words of the Lord Jesus who says that they shall never perish !
I do not need any "good luck" and that is because I have the plain words of the Lord Jesus to support what I am teaching.The Jewish believers already possessed a life in Jesus Christ that John describes as "eternal":
"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son"(1Jn.5:11).
They have already been given "eternal life",and the Lord Jesus says that those who have been given eternal life shall never perish.
But you say that they can perish!
In His grace,--Jerry
Knight,
If no one else can be found to defend the Open View, I would be willing to do so.
I didn't volunteer right away because first of all it seems there ought to someone better qualified than I to do it and secondly because I'm a bit concerned about the amount of time involved. I already spend more time on this computer than my wife would like for me to, so if possible we would have to make sure that I am made to understand very clearly how much time is likely to be involved.
If no one else can be found to defend the Open View, I would be willing to do so.
I didn't volunteer right away because first of all it seems there ought to someone better qualified than I to do it and secondly because I'm a bit concerned about the amount of time involved. I already spend more time on this computer than my wife would like for me to, so if possible we would have to make sure that I am made to understand very clearly how much time is likely to be involved.
cur_deus_homo
New member
Maybe it's because the proposed issue is SO not an issue to most people, to use teenspeak.
Are we ever going to get over this whole concept of time as something metaphysical that "progresses" as a film does through a projector. Not likely.
If we could only resurrect Newton to debate, say, Steven Weinberg on this issue of the "future being determined." Now that might be interesting.
Who's Steven Weinberg, you ask?
http://www.ph.utexas.edu/~weintech/weinberg.html
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