Baptiized in the Name or the Titles, Does it Matter?

TweetyBird

New member
what Name was He trying to make great among the nations then?

His Character, Renown, Reputation, Authority and Salvation.

That was what Israel was known for...that church in the wilderness as Jew Stephen was stoned for reminding them who the true founder was and which the Jews killed.

Israel was known for the Mosaic Law and being the people chosen by God that the Messiah would eventually come through. It was a means to the end. He could have chosen any people group, it would have not changed the outcome - that salvation is for all mankind. It's not an ethnic or cultural or tradition based Gospel. It is a brand new, unheard of, fresh.

as the believing Jews were still of Israel that church in the wilderness...and still maintaining their kosher sabbath keeping festival observing ways

Read Gal 3. The children of Abraham are all those who believe in Jesus Christ by faith, regardless of ethnicity, or culture, or religion, or tradition.


After the return to the second temple it was also known as Judaism but yes already different than what it was as part of Israel...

No it was not. According to Nehemiah and Ezra, all of Israel, gathered from all 12 tribes, were one nation who vowed to keep all the Law of Moses once more. It didn't last long of course.


But even during Jeremiah's time a conspiracy was found among it...

What conspiracy?


ummm yes that oral law was exactly what He rejected to preserve and uphold Sabbath...to restore lost Israel back to the original...

The Talmud legend is that there was an oral law given at Mt Sinai. It is not fact. Jesus did not come to restore Israel to the Law. They already had it, written down and read every Sabbath. They didn't need Jesus for the Law of Moses. John tells us that the Law and Prophets were until himself, then the Kingdom of God was preached - that is exactly what Jesus taught.



Lol...Ditto the early church...He was a danger to the status quo...as they were...this king of the Jews was a danger to Rome as every Jew was...especially this new group that so many Romans were joining...

What are you talking about? It makes zero sense.

Jews were grudgingly accepted but only when this new group was conformed into something less Jewish and more palatable to European tastes was it accepted...

More verbiage with no sources or documentation.



lol...says you

Kosher, Sabbath keeping, festival observing, "salvation is of the Jews" saying, christening the new covenant with a toast to a room full of Jews, etc...

Jesus was born Jewish - ethnically - because God chose the Jewish nation as a means to the end. Through David's loins the King and Messiah came. But what Jesus taught and died for was all mankind, in a way that was contrary to the Moses Law.

Lol...Even the Jews accused Paul of removing the customs traditions "of Moses " and he denied it...

Paul never denied it, because he taught it ... :doh: Paul was all about bringing peace to any situation ... well, except when he stirred up the pharisees against the saducees to save his own behind. But when it came to the Jews, he played it very smart - he kept the Law when he was with them, but when he was with the Gentiles, he did not. His motive and intent was to promote the Gospel of Christ and whatever it took to do it. He did not even keep the Law himself per his own words and actions.

But yes Rome has worked hard to remove everything "Jewish" ironically keeping unleavened bread...

I have no idea why you are promoting this myth.


and Rome still persecutes His own...denying Him, His way...

You are an expert at going off on tangents. This has nothing to do with anything we are discussing.


For us to become more like Him...not He us...even as us He implored we become more like Him His way...

Isaiah 53 says what? To make it less about Him His way?

Are you suggesting that we walk up the hill to Calvary bearing the sins of the whole world and being nailed to cross in order to do WJWD? :noway::help:
 

clefty

New member
His Character, Renown, Reputation, Authority and Salvation.
what name did He wish to build up for Himself not just what attribute...



Israel was known for the Mosaic Law and being the people chosen by God that the Messiah would eventually come through. It was a means to the end. He could have chosen any people group, it would have not changed the outcome - that salvation is for all mankind.
wow...you do play loose...and fast...

He chose a people group that came from Abram...one who was searching for a true God to the point he rejected his own father's gods and his people threw him out to wander...

Isreal/Hebrew was not chosen it was was because of that promise and covenant to its father Abram...

Obedience was the central foundation of this covenant with the seedline and even leaving Egypt some not of Abraham went along and were saved never the less and were assimilated as they obeyed...

Only from this obedient core including others grafted in and obedient to its Law (ruth) salvation came...

It's not an ethnic or cultural or tradition based Gospel. It is a brand new, unheard of, fresh.

Love your God was new and fresh? Lol even you neighbor as yourself was Levitical..what was new was the signer...and as that first exodus was not JUST for the blood line this reboot to exodus sin forever is open to those not of blood isreal...just like the former one...nothing new...just a new signatory with a new name...



Read Gal 3. The children of Abraham are all those who believe in Jesus Christ by faith, regardless of ethnicity, or culture, or religion, or tradition.
LOL that is my point...

I am merely trying to get those who believe to behave and live and love as a child of not only Abraham but of Yah...duh we are the same family and should reflect it by our fruits and actions




No it was not. According to Nehemiah and Ezra, all of Israel, gathered from all 12 tribes, were one nation who vowed to keep all the Law of Moses once more. It didn't last long of course.

The only place that you will read that all of the Israelite tribes reunited in Babylon, and returned together as one body to Canaan, is in the false and misguided theology of the religious opponents of the Two-House belief! Neither the Bible nor history support the idea of a mass return from Babylon of both Houses of Israel. Instead, the prophet Ezra stated, “...grace hath been showed from the LORD our God, to leave us a remnant to escape...” (9:8) Again he emphasized, “We are left this day as a remnant.” (9:15, NIV) There is no question that Ezra, an eye-witness, documented that the majority of Israel remained in exile in other lands"

http://church-of-yehovah.org/ezra&losttribes.html




What conspiracy?
lol...ask JeremiYah...maybe a conspiracy to change the name? Lol we do know after Solomon Jews plunged Israel into a mortal civil war as they demanded steep taxes from their brothers to worship at the temple...




The Talmud legend is that there was an oral law given at Mt Sinai.
it was oral before it was written down...they were punished for the golden calf while it was only an oral law...

It is not fact. Jesus did not come to restore Israel to the Law. They already had it, written down and read every Sabbath.
and then Gentiles crowded to hear it too...

They didn't need Jesus for the Law of Moses.
LOL obviously they did...couldn't even get sabbath keeping right or all those other man made traditions that kept the people blinded for lack of the keys of knowledge...

John tells us that the Law and Prophets were until himself, then the Kingdom of God was preached - that is exactly what Jesus taught.
right and by that you add...so they were destroyed...lol





What are you talking about? It makes zero sense.

Lol that Jews threatened Rome? And Christians were a growing destabilizing revolution sect of Jews?...of course it makes sense...you just are not honest



More verbiage with no sources or documentation.
resorting to ad Homs means what?

I have seen the paintings of blonde and blue eyed baby Jesus seduce europrans to belief myself...





Jesus was born Jewish - ethnically - because God chose the Jewish nation as a means to the end. Through David's loins the King and Messiah came. But what Jesus taught and died for was all mankind, in a way that was contrary to the Moses Law.
just earlier you said He could have chosen anybody...lol

What was contrary? The method of death? Well Rome does Jews bidding...stoning is Moses law but they didn't kill Him...

or that what He died for was for all mankind?...the old temple already was for any and all who believed and obeyed



Paul never denied it, because he taught it ... :doh: Paul was all about bringing peace to any situation ... well, except when he stirred up the pharisees against the saducees to save his own behind. But when it came to the Jews, he played it very smart - he kept the Law when he was with them, but when he was with the Gentiles, he did not. His motive and intent was to promote the Gospel of Christ and whatever it took to do it. He did not even keep the Law himself per his own words and actions.
now you sound like the false accusers of Paul...more and more like sabbath defining Pharisees

Please read this:

http://fogwhistle.ca/acts/evidence.html





I have no idea why you are promoting this myth.

What myth? It even broke its calander so as not to wait for Jews to call out the time of Passover...lol

And holding on to unleavened bread is Jewish indeed as if it was a Passover meal...not even EOs go that far...




You are an expert at going off on tangents. This has nothing to do with anything we are discussing.

Sure it does...from not retaining the name to Sunday keeping, Mary worship, hell/purgatory, idolatry, ham eating, blood drinking magic rites all from pagan traditions in a desire to deny the the origins and appeal to Europe...






Are you suggesting that we walk up the hill to Calvary bearing the sins of the whole world and being nailed to cross in order to do WJWD? :noway::help:

He said take up your cross...and follow me...

1 John 2:6 He that said he stays in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
 

TweetyBird

New member
what name did He wish to build up for Himself not just what attribute...

I gave the definition of "name" in Hebrew. His Name is His attributes, ongoing, infinite - it's who He is. The Great I AM - Asher Eyeh Asher.



wow...you do play loose...and fast...

He chose a people group that came from Abram...one who was searching for a true God to the point he rejected his own father's gods and his people threw him out to wander...

God sought out Abram.

Isreal/Hebrew was not chosen it was was because of that promise and covenant to its father Abram...

That is not what God said.

Deuteronomy 4:37
And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt;



Obedience was the central foundation of this covenant with the seedline and even leaving Egypt some not of Abraham went along and were saved never the less and were assimilated as they obeyed...

Only from this obedient core including others grafted in and obedient to its Law (ruth) salvation came...


I can find no evidence of this in the Scriptures.


Love your God was new and fresh? Lol even you neighbor as yourself was Levitical..what was new was the signer...and as that first exodus was not JUST for the blood line this reboot to exodus sin forever is open to those not of blood isreal...just like the former one...nothing new...just a new signatory with a new name...

Jesus said it was a new commandment, never heard before, new, fresh. You are not looking carefully at what Jesus taught - it was not the Mosaic Law, but a new one.



LOL that is my point...

I am merely trying to get those who believe to behave and live and love as a child of not only Abraham but of Yah...duh we are the same family and should reflect it by our fruits and actions

Keeping the Mosaic Law is not going to get anyone saved or help them retain their salvation.


The only place that you will read that all of the Israelite tribes reunited in Babylon, and returned together as one body to Canaan, is in the false and misguided theology of the religious opponents of the Two-House belief! Neither the Bible nor history support the idea of a mass return from Babylon of both Houses of Israel. Instead, the prophet Ezra stated, “...grace hath been showed from the LORD our God, to leave us a remnant to escape...” (9:8) Again he emphasized, “We are left this day as a remnant.” (9:15, NIV) There is no question that Ezra, an eye-witness, documented that the majority of Israel remained in exile in other lands"

A remnant from all the Northern Tribes joined with Judah, Benjamin, and Levi [the Northern tribes] around 450BC and the nation of Israel was once again a whole nation, called the Jews. Throughout the NT, all 12 tribes are called the House of Israel/the Jews.


lol...ask JeremiYah...maybe a conspiracy to change the name?

Change the name of what?

Lol we do know after Solomon Jews plunged Israel into a mortal civil war as they demanded steep taxes from their brothers to worship at the temple...

Why do you call this a conspiracy???



it was oral before it was written down...they were punished for the golden calf while it was only an oral law...

You have no clue what the oral law is do you?

and then Gentiles crowded to hear it too...

No, they did not go into the synagogue on the Sabbath. They gathered outside to hear the Gospel preached.

right and by that you add...so they were destroyed...lol

I have no idea what this has to do with "the Law and prophets were until John and then the Kingdom of Heaven was taught."


Lol that Jews threatened Rome? And Christians were a growing destabilizing revolution sect of Jews?...of course it makes sense...you just are not honest

No, it does not make sense. Christians were not revolting against Rome.


resorting to ad Homs means what?

You may want to check out the word verbiage in your dictionary if you don't know what it means.

I have seen the paintings of blonde and blue eyed baby Jesus seduce europrans to belief myself...

That is not the kind of documentation I meant. But I think you know that.


just earlier you said He could have chosen anybody...lol

Yes, exactly. He chose the Hebrew people.

What was contrary? The method of death? Well Rome does Jews bidding...stoning is Moses law but they didn't kill Him...

It was contrary because a man cannot die for another man's sins. That is "Torah".

The type of death Jesus died in contrary to "Torah" because the atonement for sin required animals to be sacrificed, not people.

The Jews could not put Jesus to death. They tried, you know. They got spooked. Jesus just walked away from them when they picked up stones to kill Him.

or that what He died for was for all mankind?...the old temple already was for any and all who believed and obeyed

No it wasn't. The temple was only for the Jews, circumcised Jews. Anyone not a Jew was not allowed to enter the Temple proper unless they wanted to be killed for trespassing. That is why Herold built Solomon's Porch so the Gentiles could enter the court outside the Temple proper and be amazed and give glory and worship to Herold for such an opulent and beautiful sanctuary.


now you sound like the false accusers of Paul...more and more like sabbath defining Pharisees

Please read this:

I do not read junk links, I read the Bible. It's clear from his writings that Paul was not keeping the Law of Moses and never suggested that anyone else keep it either.


What myth? It even broke its calander so as not to wait for Jews to call out the time of Passover...lol

And holding on to unleavened bread is Jewish indeed as if it was a Passover meal...not even EOs go that far...

I have absolutely no idea what you are going on and on about.


Sure it does...from not retaining the name to Sunday keeping, Mary worship, hell/purgatory, idolatry, ham eating, blood drinking magic rites all from pagan traditions in a desire to deny the the origins and appeal to Europe...

What does this have to do with anything that we have discussed? I am not a Catholic.


He said take up your cross...and follow me...

1 John 2:6 He that said he stays in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Are you suggesting that one bears the sins of the whole world and should be crucified for all mankind for their sins?
 
Top