Atheism died in the 20th century

[Town Heretic]

In the absence of rebuttal to my counters I'll take it you now understand:

The Constitution is not, in fact, codified law, but the supreme and guiding law in principle of our land.
That the Constitution contains ample room for the declaration it never made regarding a Christian state, as evidenced in the preamble.
That the incarceration and treatment of Japanese Americans during WWII has been widely repudiated by the government that oversaw it.
That you've now seen the monuments to fallen soldiers of all faiths at the Arlington National Cemetery.
That Creator is no more an exclusively Christian term than is the next one on your list of mistaken declarations, God.

Continuing then...

1) Allah is not God, or he would be called God instead.

lain: God is a generic term, not one noting a particular manifestation or set of beliefs. So any adherent of most religions that believe in God or gods will use the term.

2)Washington, the only President voted in unanimously, that you cannot properly GOVERN a nation without the BIBLE.

And other presidents had other ideas. None of which has anything to do with the points you're not addressing that directly rebutted your previous declarations.

3) Last I saw, we don't swear people in on the Koran.

You don't actually have to swear anyone in on a Bible. So far we've had Christian presidents and the tradition has continued.

4) Wake up. In the past we killed or deported Communists.

No, we didn't kill people for being communists. We tried people for espionage acting for communist states. We still deport people for a number of reasons and within the strictures of the law.

Now Muslims are attacking us. It's just war. Common sense!

Common sense is often uncommonly wrong. Reason is a better course, along with fidelity to our principles instead of fearful capitulation. Some Muslims have attacked us. And some Christians too. And a few atheists, some anarchists, ect. When someone breaks the law they're accountable. When we fail our principles we are.

 

[Jonahdog]

1)
5) I pledge allegiance to the flag...one nation, UNDER GOD, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

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Any reason why it doesn't say "under Jesus"? and that was added in the 1950"s.

 

[Jonahdog]

Yeah, it says Freedom of Religion. Take your own advice.

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Yep, it does, you get a gold star today. but you wanted to rely on the Declaration and the Mayflower Compact. Interesting, but those 2 documents were drafted for reasons other than to form a working nation. In addition, it is basic contract law that in a series of documents the last one is the applicable one and the one on which any agreement is based.

 

[shopkinslpskids]

I didn't join this group to argue, much less with atheists. I joined because it was called "Exclusively Christian".

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[Rusha]

Nowhere is it found that the Constitution has anything that says freedom from religion, sorry.

No where in the constitution does it state that ONE religion is allowed to dictate the beliefs and actions of others. Not sorry.

 

[Stuu]

Once again, this is not an atheist nation.

Give it time...

The current figure for the 'nones' in the US (Gallup) is 21%. That's about 67 million people.

Stuart

 

[Town Heretic]

Roosevelt saved the Jews from camps.

In this sense, we went to war with Japan and Germany and the nature of that fight freed what was left of the Jews and others in those camps.

Have you heard of the St. Louis ocean liner? In 1939 over a thousand people, largely Jews, fled Germany on her. Most of the passengers had applied for US visas and planned to wait on them in Cuba then proceed to the states. Despite being aware of both the state of affairs for the Jew in Europe the White House ignored their pleas. The St. Louis was close enough to see the lights of Miami.

He might as well have taken a pistol and killed a few hundred of them personally.

If you want to defend him on the point, be my guest.

Everyone is anti Semitic to you guys.

What guys? :AMR: It's the right wing conservatives who hate him, if for other reasons more often than not. I'm an unaffiliated moderate. But the truth is the truth. Roosevelt snubbed a thousand souls he could have saved with a wave of his hand. If not for the intervention of Great Britain and an effort by some European Jewish groups who knows how many of them would have survived the war?

And Roosevelt snubbed Jesse Owens after his historic Olympic run.

 

[shopkinslpskids]

In this sense, we went to war with Japan and Germany and the nature of that fight freed what was left of the Jews and others in those camps.

Have you heard of the St. Louis ocean liner? In 1939 over a thousand people, largely Jews, fled Germany on her. Most of the passengers had applied for US visas and planned to wait on them in Cuba then proceed to the states. Despite being aware of both the state of affairs for the Jew in Europe the White House ignored their pleas. The St. Louis was close enough to see the lights of Miami.

He might as well have taken a pistol and killed a few hundred of them personally.

If you want to defend him on the point, be my guest.


What guys? :AMR: It's the right wing conservatives who hate him, if for other reasons more often than not. I'm an unaffiliated moderate. But the truth is the truth. Roosevelt snubbed a thousand souls he could have saved with a wave of his hand. If not for the intervention of Great Britain and an effort by some European Jewish groups who knows how many of them would have survived the war?

And Roosevelt snubbed Jesse Owens after his historic Olympic run.

You can take modern day snowflake pc culture and point fingers to what was the norm at the time.

My grandfather set the Jews free. He saw it happen. Americans did it.

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[Town Heretic]

You can take modern day snowflake pc culture and point fingers to what was the norm at the time.

Or I can point out objective truths observable by anyone in any time. Because there were abolitionists in the colonies and people who weren't actually racist around WWII. So, while most people were racist once upon a time, it doesn't really excuse, say, slavery, or the practices that sponsored laws to combat later, relating to blacks and to Jews and breaking the social ban, the quietly enforced "not in my neighborhood" code of more than the South on where they could live and what jobs they could hold. :nono: Slathering words like pc and snowflake won't alter it either.

My grandfather set the Jews free. He saw it happen. Americans did it.

Which would be a great counter to a point I never made. So...but you were attempting to counter a truth about Roosevelt with another truth that wasn't controlled by it. FDR understood what was happening in Germany enough to know what he was sending those Jews back to...and he understood that anti-Semites constituted a pretty fair bit of the electorate he was counting on for a third term. Same with racists. So no Jesse Owens in the "White" House and good luck back over there, wandering Jews.

That's who he was...the liberators of concentration camps were heroic and did an absolute good. Your grandfather has my respect and, I'm sure, the gratitude of everyone he helped to free, Jewish and other. FDR doesn't merit it.

 

[shopkinslpskids]

Or I can point out objective truths observable by anyone in any time. Because there were abolitionists in the colonies and people who weren't actually racist around WWII. So, while most people were racist once upon a time, it doesn't really excuse, say, slavery, or the practices that sponsored laws to combat later, relating to blacks and to Jews and breaking the social ban, the quietly enforced "not in my neighborhood" code of more than the South on where they could live and what jobs they could hold. :nono: Slathering words like pc and snowflake won't alter it either.



Which would be a great counter to a point I never made. So...but you were attempting to counter a truth about Roosevelt with another truth that wasn't controlled by it. FDR understood what was happening in Germany enough to know what he was sending those Jews back to...and he understood that anti-Semites constituted a pretty fair bit of the electorate he was counting on for a third term. Same with racists. So no Jesse Owens in the "White" House and good luck back over there, wandering Jews.

That's who he was...the liberators of concentration camps were heroic and did an absolute good. Your grandfather has my respect and, I'm sure, the gratitude of everyone he helped to free, Jewish and other. FDR doesn't merit it.

My Grandfather had a picture of FDR on his wall. We elected him for four terms. When I visit state parks, I see that men of the time built things for Americans to enjoy while we struggled for jobs. He said, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself". He defeated the Nazis.

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[Town Heretic]

My Grandfather had a picture of FDR on his wall.

Lots of people did. It took death to get him out of office.

We elected him for four terms.

You mean they did, unless you're a lot older than I expected. I know, I know, the country. He was immensely popular and did a lot of good for a lot of people. No disputing it. And he was an able leader in a time of war. Also undisputed.

You know what else was largely undisputed back then? Racism. It was almost as much fun for the average Joe as night baseball. :Clete:

When I visit state parks, I see that men of the time built things for Americans to enjoy while we struggled for jobs. He said, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself". He defeated the Nazis.

He certainly galvanized the nation, but I think people like your grandfather defeated the Nazis.

 

[patrick jane]

Let's all submerge ourselves in white guilt. It was racist back then

 

[Town Heretic]

Let's all submerge ourselves in white guilt. It was racist back then

That's a one legged horse you're riding, PJ. I don't feel the least bit guilty for what FDR did and failed to do. But it's the truth and yeah, it was powerfully racist back then, unfortunately. And as unfortunately, FDR wasn't exceptional in that particular.

That's one area where we've made real progress, though a lot of people had to suffer and more than a few die to manage the shift. Their sacrifice demands an unflinching and frank look at the preceding history and the people who moved much of it forward or failed to.

 

[Lon]

In this sense, we went to war with Japan and Germany and the nature of that fight freed what was left of the Jews and others in those camps.

Have you heard of the St. Louis ocean liner? In 1939 over a thousand people, largely Jews, fled Germany on her. Most of the passengers had applied for US visas and planned to wait on them in Cuba then proceed to the states. Despite being aware of both the state of affairs for the Jew in Europe the White House ignored their pleas. The St. Louis was close enough to see the lights of Miami.

He might as well have taken a pistol and killed a few hundred of them personally.

If you want to defend him on the point, be my guest.


What guys? :AMR: It's the right wing conservatives who hate him, if for other reasons more often than not. I'm an unaffiliated moderate. But the truth is the truth. Roosevelt snubbed a thousand souls he could have saved with a wave of his hand. If not for the intervention of Great Britain and an effort by some European Jewish groups who knows how many of them would have survived the war?

And Roosevelt snubbed Jesse Owens after his historic Olympic run.

Can you imagine four terms? :noway:

 

[ok doser]

Why should blacks (or whites) who are ignorant and uneducated be given full citizenship?

 

[Nick M]

So much for religious freedom.

There is no religious freedom with sharia law. Islam is incompatible with the ideals of the Founding Fathers. In the way of the Founding Fathers, you have liberty. In islam, you have no liberty.

 

[Greg Jennings]

This nation was founded on Christian faith

I feel like this is something we've gone over again and again.


No, it was not. Too many of the founders were non-Christian pantheists for your statement to hold water

 

[Stuu]

There is no religious freedom with sharia law. Islam is incompatible with the ideals of the Founding Fathers. In the way of the Founding Fathers, you have liberty. In islam, you have no liberty.

Indeed the particular strength of your nation is its secular constitution and the freedom it provides people to practice the religion of their choice, and not to be subjected to any one religion gaining privilege.

Stuart

 

[Stuu]

I feel like this is something we've gone over again and again.


No, it was not. Too many of the founders were non-Christian pantheists for your statement to hold water

Here's a definitive list :

John Adams: mostly christian
Benjamin Franklin: mostly deist
Alexander Hamilton: probably deist
John Jay: christian
Thomas Jefferson: deist / atheist
James Madison: deist
George Washington: anyone's guess

Stuart

 

[nikolai_42]

I honestly think that Islam should be banned until all terror attacks stopped, but this debate shows how even a Muslim can out debate the most well known atheist out there.

https://youtu.be/nQ-Y5NWV9kc


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America is not a theocratic republic but is rather a nation whose legal foundation rests on a Christian heritage. Where dissent was publicly squashed in former days, the American experiment takes the stance that the Truth will win the day if it - and its opponents - are given free accord. A sort of Elijah on Mt. Carmel that gives more than fair opportunity for all to do their best against God's revelation. To take it that step further and chase down the prophets of Ba'al and destroy them because they are wrong - that is God's province. Liberty is not an end in itself, but is what provides the stage for the conflict. If we try to end it prematurely, we are not doing anyone service - most especially ourselves. To give in to fear rather than present the gospel and let it stand without excuse or apology should be the heritage of this nation. Not the law of it. The very fact that a theist can be wrong yet still trump an atheist should be an example that we can be victorious over the delusion of Islam. But it won't be military victory (though there is a place for that).

The increasing Islamic hegemony is merely an exclamation point on the scripture :

By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil.
When a man's ways please the Lord, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him.
Proverbs 16:6-7

We will not overcome Islamic deception by war, but by truth and mercy. And as we do and as we submit to the Lord, HE will fight our battles for us. Not that we won't have a military, but recognizing our success comes from Him means we need fear no one. Banning Muslim activity and worship only counters the liberty promised by the founding fathers and removes the primary weapon believers have in defeating the lies of the enemy.