Originally posted by Knight
Again... even from a scientific perspective none of what you mentioned is illogical (emphasis on illogical). God is SUPERnatural and therefore not bound by physical laws, that has nothing to do with logic.
Something illogical would be like a four sided triangle.
While the Bible does present God as SUPERnatural..... to my knowledge the Bible never presents God as SUPERlogical as in, NOT logical.
Originally posted by Knight
I couldn't disagree more.
Nothing about the virgin birth or the ressurection is illogical assuming God truly is SUPERnatural.
We might classify these things as miraculous or amazing or divine but not illogical.
Originally posted by godrulz
I meant we just wish we could communicate clearer so people can see the issue clearly. You are not personally frustrating.
Originally posted by godrulz
Hey fellow mac lover...I have the original flatscreen iMac.
Originally posted by godrulz
For poogle...does Knight use a Mac?
To the natural mind it is, in light of 1Cor. 2.Originally posted by godrulz
The Trinity is a revelation of the nature of God that we would not come up with by reason alone, yet it is not unreasonable.
His ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts.It is not an absurdity or logical contradiction
Simplify this. Does God know in advance, the free will decisions of humans, in light of what we already know in the Book of Revelation. Yes or no?The book of Revelation shows that God will bring much of the future to pass by His ability. Other verses show another motif that free will moral choices of specific moral agents are not known as a certainty until they are made (He knows them correctly as a possibility).
This seems to tie in with your earlier question:Think about this for a minute...
If God draws All peoples to Himself (as He directly states in John 12:32) yet we also know that not all people are saved. There are only two possible conclusions we can come up with based on those two facts... either God is incapable of effectively drawing all people to Himself and coercing them into selecting Him or God really DOES draw all people but many/most reject God (i.e., men have their OWN will). The Bible would back up the Open Theist claim that many/most simply reject God's will. The Bible WOULD NOT back up the idea that God failed in His "drawing" which is a fundamental flaw in the Calvinistic theology. I suggest you seriously consider this flaw in your theology.
The verse that you referred to after that question was John 12:32. From the context of that verse, I see that Jesus was talking to the Jews. Jesus was telling them that he will men of all nations to him, not just mainly Jews as it had been in the past. So, to answer your question, the Father draws all men that are predestined.Christine... who does the Father draw???? Does He only draw some select lucky individuals? Or does He draw ALL men?
I would think you are wrong about time.Originally posted by poogle
As godrulz pointed out earlier it appears that my understanding of time is what is causing my (mis)understanding of God's foreknowledge and how it relates to free will.
So I ask you this. Is my understanding of time and how it relates to God the cause of my (mis)understanding?
To clarify what I thought about time. I thought that God exists outside of time and is not subject to it. God can see past, present and future.
Am I wrong about God and time?
My first Mac was a.... what was my first Mac??? I can't remeber now! Something with a "II" in it.Originally posted by poogle
Knight, what was your first Mac and what do you use now?
That doesn't mean God is illogical.Originally posted by Freak
His ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts.
Freak... you are rude.Simplify this. Does God know in advance, the free will decisions of humans, in light of what we already know in the Book of Revelation. Yes or no?
Good I am glad I could be of help.Originally posted by Christine
Knight, I thank you for answering my questions concerning Open Theisim. You have helped me to better understand what they believe. However, as I've said before, I am new to this more Calvinistic view and can not answer all of your questions. Many of them I have been having to ask my father about. Therefore, I, and my father, would perfer it you have any more questions and/or comments, that you contact him. If you desire to do so, you can PM me for his e-mail address.![]()
No.Originally posted by poogle
Knight,
Wasn't sure if you knew that I wanted an answer to my hypothetical situation or not so here it is again:
Lets say that I built a time machine before John Doe was born. With the help of the time machine and a cloaking device, I am able to travel into the future and document every choice that John Doe makes in his life. For this hypothetical situation lets assume that John Doe has free will when making his choices.
After John Doe dies, I go back to the time before John Doe was born. I now know every choice that John Doe will make in his life.
Does John Doe have free will?
Originally posted by Knight
No.
The instant you saw John Doe make his choices you sealed his future to those choices.
Your time machine became a constraining device upon John Doe's freewill.
If you disagree with that statement please explain to me the following....
After you viewed John's future and came back to the past/present is there any way possible for John Doe to alter that version of the future you saw yet at the same time keep that version of the future accurate?
Back to reality Your hypothetical only highlights the impossibility of time travel. Since time is not a "thing" there is no way possible for it to be traveled in. All of time doesn't exist somewhere external to our ever passing moment. The only thing that actually exists as far as time is concerned is one moment at a time. (however small)