Right Divider
Body part
You just will not accept what the Bible actually says. You clearly love your Churchianity more.
Are You Ready For Jesus To Come?
- Thread starter MarcATL
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musterion
Well-known member
They repented to Him as the Messiah of Israel, not as the crucified and risen Savior of Jew and Gentile alike. Different gospels are different.
Greetings musterion,
Matthew 1:20-21 (KJV): 20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Galatians 3:6-8 (KJV): 6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Kind regards
Trevor
I believe that there is only one gospel.
Matthew 1:20-21 (KJV): 20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Galatians 3:6-8 (KJV): 6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Kind regards
Trevor
musterion
Well-known member
There were two gospels on the street at that time (Gal 2:2-9). Today, there is only one. Stop arguing for the sake of arguing.
Greetings again musterion,
Kind regards
Trevor
I do not want to argue, and I consider that I have covered the subject reasonably well in my earlier posts and much of this has not been answered. I have a different perspective on Galatians 2:2-9 than what you state above. I am sure that you have encountered the range of opinions on these verses. I want to move on to some other interests so I will let you discover these for yourself.
Kind regards
Trevor
musterion
Well-known member
Are there two distinct gospels identified in Gal 2, or not?
Greetings again musterion,
Kind regards
Trevor
No. Did you agree with what Right Divider stated concerning Mid-Acts dispensationalism, and the various answers and comments he made in reply to me? Shortly after our discussion you seemed to endorse his view by stating the following:
In other words you ignored all of my answers to Right Divider. I feel that I have stated sufficient to dismiss the view that Right Divider presented and you seemed to endorse.
Kind regards
Trevor
False Prophet
New member
Jesus is coming on Easter Sunday; pack your bags here!
musterion
Well-known member
So you call Paul a liar.
Greetings again musterion,
Kind regards
Trevor
My understanding of Galatians 2:7-9 is that it is speaking of the sub-division of the responsibility of preaching. Peter was responsible for preaching to the Jews, and Paul to the Gentiles. Peter, Philip and Paul all taught the one gospel, the Gospel of the Kingdom and Name Acts 8:5-6,12. Please refer to my earlier posts regarding this, the one gospel where both Jews and Gentiles receive forgiveness of sins. Consider especially my posts on Acts 2 and Acts 3. See also John 12:32-33.
Kind regards
Trevor
musterion
Well-known member
Your understanding is wrong.
Two gospels, two audiences, two apostleships, two revelations, one Christ preached in two aspects -- sacrificed Messiah of Israel's Jews and risen Savior of all -- one Kingdom, one God and Father of all.
Right Divider
Body part
Your view is wrong. It's just that simple. You refuse to see the truth.
Peter was NOT preaching the cross as GOOD NEWS. It's clear to anyone but you and those that prefer the bogus traditions of Churchianity.
Right Divider
Body part
And YET.... before Paul was even called, The twelve were sent to ALL NATIONS!
Matt 28:19-20 (AKJV/PCE)
(28:19) ¶ Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (28:20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
Why the CHANGE?
Also note that Paul was NOT ONLY sent to the gentiles (even though he calls himself the apostle of the gentiles).
Acts 9:15 (KJV)
(9:15) But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Step away from your tradition for a while and study what the Bible actually says.
Greetings again musterion and Right Divider,
Kind regards
Trevor
If you examine Peter’s speeches of Acts 2 and 3 and Paul’s speech in Acts 13 you will find that they preached the same gospel. Also the summary of Philip’s preaching in Acts 8:5,12 and the summary of Paul’s preaching in Acts 28:30-31 is the same.
I am not sure if musterion agrees with you here, as I consider your claim that Peter’s preaching about the crucifixion was not GOOD NEWS is so far wide of the mark that it is ridiculous. Even if musterion does not agree with you here, JudgeRightly and Steko endorse your claim, proving to me that this concept is widely held amongst Mid-Acts Dispensationalism. Please refer again to my quotation of Acts 2 and Acts 3.
All this only serves to prove that the area of their responsibility was different, there was a division of their labour. Peter spent most of his time preaching to the Jews, being stationed at Jerusalem. Paul travelled the Roman world preaching to Jew and Gentile, but the end result was that more Gentiles came under his care. Consider the events at Antioch, and Paul’s declaration that his message was to go to the Gentiles, because many of the Jews at Antioch resisted his message. But Peter and Paul’s message was the same, the Gospel of the Kingdom and Name. peter nad the Apostles were to preach the Gospel, the GOOD NEWS, as a comparison of Matthew 28:19-20 and Mark 16:15-16 will show. Acts 2 and 3 is preaching this GOOD NEWS.
Kind regards
Trevor
Right Divider
Body part
I've read Acts very carefully and without the blinders of tradition that have ensnared you. Do you follow Peter in healing everyone per Acts 5?
WOW... you are just amazing. I just showed you that the twelve were sent to ALL NATIONS and YET you will not see that. And that Paul was send to the children of Israel as WELL as the gentiles.
If it's a "division of labor", then why did the TWELVE take the tiny number of Jews and the ONE Paul take the whole rest of the world? You need to rethink your story.
Paul received the revelation of the mystery that was HID IN GOD.... it was unknown until given to Paul.
Stay in Churchianity and preach half-truth if you like, I'll stick with the manifold wisdom of God that Paul preached.
False Prophet
New member
How can one believe this doctrine when it did not happen? The San Andreas Fault was supposed to burst open on Oct 15, so California could slide into the sea. Then Jesus appears to rapture the christians into heaven, while all the sinners plunged into the sea. This did not happen, so you change the date! William Miller started this rapture heresy back in 1828, which resulted in the great disappointment of 1843. It has been going on until this day; excuse me! It is still going on today. Of all religious groups, Mothers Against Drunk driving oppose this doctrine, and they told mc that he is nuts! Well you guys are a bunch of nuts too! for believing that Jesus is coming back on Easter Sunday. So pack your bags here!
Greetings again Right Divider.
Galatians 2:7-8 (KJV): 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles)
We have little information about the preaching efforts of all the Apostles, apart from the record in The Acts and the various Letters. The Acts reveal that Paul went on three major Missionary Journeys, mostly to the Gentiles. And then he was in Rome preaching for two years, despite the fact that he was a prisoner, but the gospel was not bound.
I am still confused as to what you claim concerning this subject, especially the concept of two different gospels. Perhaps to clarify could you answer some of the following?:
1. Did Jesus preach a different gospel to Paul?
2. Were people saved by the gospel Jesus preached?
3. Is the teaching in Matthew 5-7 still relevant to the believer today, and necessary as a way of life?
4. What about the 3000 who believed at Pentecost? Will they be saved? Or did they need to also be converted by Paul and only then receive OSAS?
5. Is Mid-Acts Dispensationalism closely linked to OSAS, or is there a range of opinions, some supporting OSAS, and others rejecting OSAS?
Kind regards
Trevor
I appreciate your claim, but we seem to read Acts differently. I am not sure what is the relevance or what you are asking in reference to Peter healing everyone.
I would be interested as to how you understand the following, especially verse 8:
Galatians 2:7-8 (KJV): 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles)
We have little information about the preaching efforts of all the Apostles, apart from the record in The Acts and the various Letters. The Acts reveal that Paul went on three major Missionary Journeys, mostly to the Gentiles. And then he was in Rome preaching for two years, despite the fact that he was a prisoner, but the gospel was not bound.
I am a little bit amused by your continual use of “Churchianity”. I do not support the term “Church”, as it is used to describe a particular church such as the Baptist Church, the Catholic Church or the Church of England. The Biblical term relates more to an assembly of the believers who have responded to the call of the gospel. Perhaps you do not belong to a Church.
I am still confused as to what you claim concerning this subject, especially the concept of two different gospels. Perhaps to clarify could you answer some of the following?:
1. Did Jesus preach a different gospel to Paul?
2. Were people saved by the gospel Jesus preached?
3. Is the teaching in Matthew 5-7 still relevant to the believer today, and necessary as a way of life?
4. What about the 3000 who believed at Pentecost? Will they be saved? Or did they need to also be converted by Paul and only then receive OSAS?
5. Is Mid-Acts Dispensationalism closely linked to OSAS, or is there a range of opinions, some supporting OSAS, and others rejecting OSAS?
Kind regards
Trevor
Right Divider
Body part
Because there are many things that the twelve did with regards to the people of Israel that are not relevant to the body of Christ. Peter was still preaching the gospel of the kingdom and NOT the gospel of the grace of God. Peter could not be preaching the gospel of the grace of God because it was NOT yet revealed. You can't preached something that you don't know.
There are TWO different gospels being preached (and there are more than two gospels in the Bible). THAT is the reason for the division and NOT some "division of labor" as you falsely claim. Once again, a "division of labor" makes no sense when we see that the TWELVE apostles for the TWELVE tribes get to preach to the minority and the SINGLE apostle Paul takes the vast majority. Were they bad at math?
Paul was an apostle and not a "missionary".
I use the term Churchianity to describe the mass confusion that you share with much of the so-called "church" that twists the Bible into a pretzel to get to (among other things) the "one gospel" fairy tale.
I belong the church which is His body. The one that only Paul describes.
Without a doubt. How can you explain that fact that Jesus is never shown to use the word "grace" even ONCE during His time on earth? That is quote telling, but I'm sure that you pull out anything answer from your Churchinaity.
It depends on the meaning of saved. Not every use of the term is the same throughout the Bible.
Eternal life is a gift that is independent of the various gospels in the Bible. It always comes by faith in God and believing what He says.
In the book of Matthew, the LORD Jesus Christ is preaching to His people, Israel. I'm really surprised that you don't know this.
Perhaps you did not see what Jesus taught later:
Matt 10:5-8 (AKJV/PCE)
(10:5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (10:6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (10:7) And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. (10:8) Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Do you follow these instructions today? Do you heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead.... ? I didn't think so.
What about them?
They were the part of the remnant of Israel. You should do a little study on that topic.
Note carefully the future tense here:
Acts 2:47 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:47) Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Why is it "should be saved"? Why not just saved?
Paul uses past tense:
Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2Tim 1:8-11 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:8) Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; (1:9) Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, (1:10) But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: (1:11) Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
The "appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ" does NOT refer to His earthly ministry to Israel but His appearing to Paul with special revelation. Paul speaks at length about this throughout his epistles.
You seem to be terribly hung up on OSAS.
In the dispensation of the grace of God salvation is freely given and cannot be lost. If you don't have that assurance, then you're probably not saved by grace through faith.