Are You Ready For Jesus To Come?

[Right Divider]

Greetings again Right Divider and musterion, I appreciate your response. I do not accept your view, and it seems to be some form of dispensationalism. I believe that there is one gospel and one method of salvation,

Kind regards
Trevor

I understand your confusion, you don't know what dispensationalists believe nor what the Bible teaches.

Just so you're clear, this is a dispensational site.

MAD does NOT teach that there is salvation any other way than the blood of Christ and there are many gospels in the Bible.
You should learn about what you're knocking first, instead of beating your straw-man. We get plenty of that already.

 

[glorydaz]

Greetings musterion, Acts 13:39 has a different range of meaning than OSAS, and you are misapplying this. This is speaking about justification by faith. I notice that you did not respond to my quotations. There are many more that disprove OSAS, and perhaps my favourite is to consider the various stages in the development of Abraham's faith. He is set forth as the father of the faithful. My impression of OSAS is that it robs the individual of true motivation in dedication to the things of God, and opens the door to sin and addiction to sin. Please also consider 2 Peter 1:1-12 concerning this.

Kind regards
Trevor

Ah, motivation is it? To be motivated out of fear and loss is LAW not grace. The law never motivates unto righteousness. NEVER. It only motivates one to put on a cloak of righteousness...thus the "whited sepulchres filled with dead men's bones".

No, we are motivated ONLY by love, and that love of God is shed abroad on our hearts by the Holy Spirit when He comes to dwell in us.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Right Divider and Greetings glorydaz,

I understand your confusion, you don't know what dispensationalists believe nor what the Bible teaches.

I could agree with the first statement, in that there seems to be many dispensational branches and I have not worked out what each of them believe, and how they came to their conclusions. I have some understanding of what the Bible teaches and will discuss the Bible in this thread and elsewhere and seek to learn from you if you speak the truth.

Just so you're clear, this is a dispensational site.

This is the first time I have heard this claim. From experience there seems to be a wide range of opinions on this site.

MAD does NOT teach that there is salvation any other way than the blood of Christ and there are many gospels in the Bible.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is MAD? I only believe in one gospel.

You should learn about what you're knocking first, instead of beating your straw-man. We get plenty of that already.

I am trying to engage, but there has not been much discussion of Scripture in this thread, and no response to the few Scriptures that I have quoted. I have a reasonable assessment of OSAS, and I have already mentioned why I disagree. What is your opinion of the Scriptures that I mentioned?

Ah, motivation is it? To be motivated out of fear and loss is LAW not grace. The law never motivates unto righteousness. NEVER. It only motivates one to put on a cloak of righteousness...thus the "whited sepulchres filled with dead men's bones".

No, we are motivated ONLY by love, and that love of God is shed abroad on our hearts by the Holy Spirit when He comes to dwell in us.

I never mentioned motivation out of fear or loss. Yes we are motivated by God’s love, but if we imbibe negating teachings such as OSAS then this will be a hindrance in developing the spiritual man. There is a sensitive and beautiful balance with all of God’s ways and arrangements.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[glorydaz]

I never mentioned motivation out of fear or loss. Yes we are motivated by God’s love, but if we imbibe negating teachings such as OSAS then this will be a hindrance in developing the spiritual man. There is a sensitive and beautiful balance with all of God’s ways and arrangements.

Kind regards
Trevor

Nonsense.

This is what you said, "My impression of OSAS is that it robs the individual of true motivation in dedication to the things of God, and opens the door to sin and addiction to sin."

That's the old claim that man needs a threat hanging over his head (loss of salvation) in order to be dedicated to the things of God. Which is the exact opposite of what the Apostle Paul tells us. One can only become addicted to sin if he remains under the bondage of the law. Believers are freed from the law, therefore, sin has no dominion over us whatsoever. Romans 7:6

It is only when man has complete assurance of his salvation that he experiences the liberty of being sons of God. It is only then that enter into His rest...ceasing from our own efforts and trusting in HIM alone.

Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

 

[God's Truth]

Nonsense.

This is what you said, "My impression of OSAS is that it robs the individual of true motivation in dedication to the things of God, and opens the door to sin and addiction to sin."

That's the old claim that man needs a threat hanging over his head (loss of salvation) in order to be dedicated to the things of God. Which is the exact opposite of what the Apostle Paul tells us. One can only become addicted to sin if he remains under the bondage of the law. Believers are freed from the law, therefore, sin has no dominion over us whatsoever. Romans 7:6

It is only when man has complete assurance of his salvation that he experiences the liberty of being sons of God. It is only then that enter into His rest...ceasing from our own efforts and trusting in HIM alone.

Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

Jesus warns us for a reason.

People can fall away from Jesus see Galatians 5:4; 1 Corinthians 10:12; 2 Peter 3:17. We are warned not to drift away, Hebrews 2:1, not to draw back, Hebrews 10:38; to hold on and stand firm, Hebrews 3:14, 1 Corinthians 15:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15. We are told how not to fall, 2 Peter 1:10, how not to be hardened, Hebrews 3:8,13.

God can throw people out, Matthew 22:13, blot people out, Exodus 32:32-33, remove your lampstand, Revelation 2:5, sign you a place with unbelievers, Luke 12:46, and cut you off, Romans 11:19-21. We can become defiled, Hebrews 12:15. Our lamps can burn out, Matthew 25:8. We can cause ourselves to have to have Christ formed in us again, Galatians 4:19.

We are told how to remain in Jesus, John 6:56, and if we do Jesus will remain in us, John 15:4. Jesus tells us of the good if we remain in him, John 15:5, and of the bad when we do not, John 15:6. Jesus exhorts us to remain in him, John 15:9, 10, Acts 14:22, and 1 John 2:24.

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus warns us for a reason.

People can fall away from Jesus see Galatians 5:4; 1 Corinthians 10:12; 2 Peter 3:17. We are warned not to drift away, Hebrews 2:1, not to draw back, Hebrews 10:38; to hold on and stand firm, Hebrews 3:14, 1 Corinthians 15:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15. We are told how not to fall, 2 Peter 1:10, how not to be hardened, Hebrews 3:8,13.

God can throw people out, Matthew 22:13, blot people out, Exodus 32:32-33, remove your lampstand, Revelation 2:5, sign you a place with unbelievers, Luke 12:46, and cut you off, Romans 11:19-21. We can become defiled, Hebrews 12:15. Our lamps can burn out, Matthew 25:8. We can cause ourselves to have to have Christ formed in us again, Galatians 4:19.

We are told how to remain in Jesus, John 6:56, and if we do Jesus will remain in us, John 15:4. Jesus tells us of the good if we remain in him, John 15:5, and of the bad when we do not, John 15:6. Jesus exhorts us to remain in him, John 15:9, 10, Acts 14:22, and 1 John 2:24.

Ah the old scripture twister has come to call.

Throwing out verses like they were a dime a dozen, but understanding NOT ONE of them.

Falling from God's favour is not losing one's salvation. But, I can understand why YOU are worried. You are counting on your own righteousness to save you. No assurance of salvation = no salvation. Your faith is not in the Lord Jesus Christ but in YOURSELF.

 

[Right Divider]

Greetings again Right Divider and Greetings glorydaz, I could agree with the first statement, in that there seems to be many dispensational branches and I have not worked out what each of them believe, and how they came to their conclusions. I have some understanding of what the Bible teaches and will discuss the Bible in this thread and elsewhere and seek to learn from you if you speak the truth.

That sounds reasonable.

This is the first time I have heard this claim. From experience there seems to be a wide range of opinions on this site.

The basis for the site is not the same as the many (and often times completely crazy) opinions that you will find posted here.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is MAD?

Mid-Acts dispensationalism. We understand that God gave Paul a mystery that had been previously hidden, but is now revealed.

Eph 3:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:8) Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; (3:9) And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: ​

Something "hid in God" is not possible to know until God reveals it.

Compare and contrast that to what the LORD gave to Israel:

Luke 1:68-75 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:68) Blessed [be] the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, (1:69) And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; (1:70) As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: (1:71) That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; (1:72) To perform the mercy [promised] to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; (1:73) The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, (1:74) That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, (1:75) In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life. ​

That was preached since the world began, Paul's message was kept secret since the world began.

Rom 16:25-26 (AKJV/PCE)​

(16:25) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, (16:26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: ​

The revelation of the mystery was kept secret since the world began. Two contradictory things cannot be the same thing.

I only believe in one gospel.

Well, there are many gospels in the Bible. So you believe something that you heard elsewhere, because in the Bible there are many gospels (good news).
The gospel of the kingdom is not the same as the gospel of the grace of God.

I am trying to engage, but there has not been much discussion of Scripture in this thread, and no response to the few Scriptures that I have quoted. I have a reasonable assessment of OSAS, and I have already mentioned why I disagree. What is your opinion of the Scriptures that I mentioned?

The gospel of the grace of God makes the believer completely secure. I'm sorry that you missed that scripture. You do not rightly divide the Word of truth.

I never mentioned motivation out of fear or loss. Yes we are motivated by God’s love, but if we imbibe negating teachings such as OSAS then this will be a hindrance in developing the spiritual man. There is a sensitive and beautiful balance with all of God’s ways and arrangements.

Once again, you do not understand grace. Grace is the greatest motivation to holiness that there is.

Eph 4:32 (AKJV/PCE)​

(4:32) And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

​

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Right Divider

The revelation of the mystery was kept secret since the world began. Two contradictory things cannot be the same thing.

I appreciate your thorough response and explanation. I have not previously given much thought to the Mid-Acts dispensationalism concept nor have I considered what many claim is represented by the gospel of grace.

I have not previously considered that the preaching by Paul was significantly different to the preaching by Jesus and the 12 Apostles. I read that Jesus preached the gospel of the Kingdom of God, and Peter preached the gospel of the Kingdom and Name to the Jews in Acts 2, 3 and 4. Philip the Evangelist (a preacher of the gospel) preached the gospel of the Kingdom and Name to the Samaritans in Acts 8:5,12 and Paul preached the same in Acts 28:23-24,30-31 to both Jews and Gentiles. One element of the mystery is that the gospel was to be freely open to the Gentiles, and the record concerning Peter and Cornelius is significant. Paul was especially chosen to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles. Another aspect of what was previously hidden, or not fully appreciated, was that Christ had to suffer, die and be resurrected. Although this was revealed in such prophecies as Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 it was not anticipated by most, even the Apostles to whom Jesus had clearly stated what had to occur.

Well, there are many gospels in the Bible. So you believe something that you heard elsewhere, because in the Bible there are many gospels (good news).
The gospel of the kingdom is not the same as the gospel of the grace of God.
The gospel of the grace of God makes the believer completely secure. I'm sorry that you missed that scripture. You do not rightly divide the Word of truth.
Once again, you do not understand grace. Grace is the greatest motivation to holiness that there is.

Eph 4:32 (AKJV/PCE)​

(4:32) And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. ​

My understanding of the term grace is the unmerited kindness and love of God in the forgiveness of our sins, and I also consider grace to include God’s continual care for us, in granting our needs in all things and His providential care for us each day. I am not sure of what you would add to this.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[oatmeal]

If the trumpets were to sound and our Lord were to pierce the clouds right now as you read and/or type here on TOL, would you be ready to meet Him in the air in peace? Or would you be among the group that would cry out for the rocks to fall on you because you cannot bear to behold His light?

Regardless of your answer, how do you know it to be true?

Romans 5:1

I would rather believe God's word than the word of men

 

[God's Truth]

Ah the old scripture twister has come to call.

Throwing out verses like they were a dime a dozen, but understanding NOT ONE of them.

Falling from God's favour is not losing one's salvation. But, I can understand why YOU are worried. You are counting on your own righteousness to save you. No assurance of salvation = no salvation. Your faith is not in the Lord Jesus Christ but in YOURSELF.

I am not worried at all because I obey Jesus.

 

[Right Divider]

Greetings again Right Divider I appreciate your thorough response and explanation. I have not previously given much thought to the Mid-Acts dispensationalism concept nor have I considered what many claim is represented by the gospel of grace.

Don't stay uninformed.

I have not previously considered that the preaching by Paul was significantly different to the preaching by Jesus and the 12 Apostles. I read that Jesus preached the gospel of the Kingdom of God, and Peter preached the gospel of the Kingdom and Name to the Jews in Acts 2, 3 and 4. Philip the Evangelist (a preacher of the gospel) preached the gospel of the Kingdom and Name to the Samaritans in Acts 8:5,12 and Paul preached the same in Acts 28:23-24,30-31 to both Jews and Gentiles. One element of the mystery is that the gospel was to be freely open to the Gentiles, and the record concerning Peter and Cornelius is significant. Paul was especially chosen to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles. Another aspect of what was previously hidden, or not fully appreciated, was that Christ had to suffer, die and be resurrected. Although this was revealed in such prophecies as Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 it was not anticipated by most, even the Apostles to whom Jesus had clearly stated what had to occur.

I can see that you are deeply steeped in the doctrines of Churchianity. You need to take a step back and let the Word of God speak for itself instead of continuing to learn the common "story" that Churchianity has forced on the Bible.

• Where do you find this "gospel of the Kingdom and Name"?
• If Paul was chosen to preach the gospel to the Gentiles, why did God send Peter to Cornelius by special revelation?
• Note that Paul was already called by God before Peter was sent.

My understanding of the term grace is the unmerited kindness and love of God in the forgiveness of our sins, and I also consider grace to include God’s continual care for us, in granting our needs in all things and His providential care for us each day. I am not sure of what you would add to this.

My point was the Paul away shows the believer to be secure and forgiven. The widely knocked OSAS, is a reality in Paul's epistles. You don't earn grace, so there is no way to lose it once you have accepted it. It is a free gift.

If Jesus were preaching the dispensation of the grace of God while He was on His earthly ministry to the circumcision, don't you think that there would be many references in scripture to His use of the word grace?

You cannot find even ONE time that the LORD Jesus Christ used the word grace during that time. That is glaringly obvious that His message was not the gospel of the grace of God.

--RD

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Right Divider

Don't stay uninformed.
I can see that you are deeply steeped in the doctrines of Churchianity. You need to take a step back and let the Word of God speak for itself instead of continuing to learn the common "story" that Churchianity has forced on the Bible.

I do not want to be ignorant if I have missed what the Bible teaches, but here you seem to dismiss what I consider the Bible simply and clearly teaches and you call this “Churchianity”.

Where do you find this "gospel of the Kingdom and Name"?

This is my summary of what Luke summarises in the following passage, where he speaks of what the Samaritans believed as a result of Philip preaching the gospel:
Acts 8:5-6,12 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
The gospel comprised two major elements, the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, and I summarised this as the gospel of the Kingdom and Name, the very same terms are found in Acts 28:30-31 when Paul preached the gospel to the Jews and Gentiles in Rome. If I need to understand MAD, what is the position of the Samaritans, and what Gospel did they receive? The Gospel of the Kingdom, or the Gospel of Grace? The Samaritans were in some respect considered as neither Jew nor Gentile as they were a mixed race, derived from Gentiles and Jews after the Assyrian captivity. So how do you apply MAD with them?

If Paul was chosen to preach the gospel to the Gentiles, why did God send Peter to Cornelius by special revelation?
Note that Paul was already called by God before Peter was sent.

I believe that this was the second of the two keys given to Peter, to unlock the Gospel to the Jews and then the Gentiles. Peter was chosen to help overcome the natural reticence of the Jews to accept the equal status of the Gentiles in receiving the Gospel and the Gift of the Holy Spirit. Peter and Paul preached the same Gospel as any comparison of their various speeches will reveal.

My point was the Paul away shows the believer to be secure and forgiven. The widely knocked OSAS, is a reality in Paul's epistles. You don't earn grace, so there is no way to lose it once you have accepted it. It is a free gift.
If Jesus were preaching the dispensation of the grace of God while He was on His earthly ministry to the circumcision, don't you think that there would be many references in scripture to His use of the word grace?
You cannot find even ONE time that the LORD Jesus Christ used the word grace during that time. That is glaringly obvious that His message was not the gospel of the grace of God.

My understanding of “grace” is first and foremost forgiveness of sins, and Abraham was forgiven in Genesis 15:6.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Right Divider]

Greetings again Right Divider I do not want to be ignorant if I have missed what the Bible teaches, but here you seem to dismiss what I consider the Bible simply and clearly teaches and you call this “Churchianity”. This is my summary of what Luke summarises in the following passage, where he speaks of what the Samaritans believed as a result of Philip preaching the gospel:
Acts 8:5-6,12 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

It is "Churchianity". It is the fairy tale that most of the so-called Christian churches teach today (at least the fairly orthodox ones).

• Simply "preaching Christ" is NOT preaching the gospel of the grace of God; Paul preached the cross... Philip did not.
• Philip was preaching the same thing that Peter and the eleven where preaching.
• Peter and the eleven were the twelve apostles for the twelve tribes of Israel and that means something.
• Philip was preaching this BEFORE Paul was called and given his ministry.
• Philip was NOT preaching to gentiles (Samaritans are not gentiles).
• Nowhere do you see "the gospel of the name of Jesus Christ" in the Bible, you got that somewhere else.
• Have you not noticed that the CROSS is completely missing from Act 8?
• How could something as central to the gospel of the grace of God as the cross be completely missing from presenting the gospel?

The gospel comprised two major elements, the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, and I summarised this as the gospel of the Kingdom and Name, the very same terms are found in Acts 28:30-31 when Paul preached the gospel to the Jews and Gentiles in Rome. If I need to understand MAD, what is the position of the Samaritans, and what Gospel did they receive? The Gospel of the Kingdom, or the Gospel of Grace? The Samaritans were in some respect considered as neither Jew nor Gentile as they were a mixed race, derived from Gentiles and Jews after the Assyrian captivity. So how do you apply MAD with them?

This "two major elements gospel" that you describe here must have been found in some man-made writing, because it's not from the Bible.

The gospel of the kingdom has TWELVE apostles sitting on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of Israel.

Luke 22:29-30 (AKJV/PCE)​

(22:29) And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; (22:30) That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. ​

This will happen just like the LORD Jesus Christ said that it will. Most of Churchianity has turned this kingdom into mythology and you seem to agree.

The Samaritans were still part of Israel, regardless of the diluted heritage.

I believe that this was the second of the two keys given to Peter, to unlock the Gospel to the Jews and then the Gentiles. Peter was chosen to help overcome the natural reticence of the Jews to accept the equal status of the Gentiles in receiving the Gospel and the Gift of the Holy Spirit. Peter and Paul preached the same Gospel as any comparison of their various speeches will reveal.

Where does it say that Peter was given two keys? The old "natural reticence" problem is just more Churchianity hard at work confusing the actual teaching of the Bible.

I've read "their various speeches" and I've read their entire epistles, so I know that they are not preaching exactly the same thing.

My understanding of “grace” is first and foremost forgiveness of sins, and Abraham was forgiven in Genesis 15:6.

You just continue to read things INTO the Bible instead of just believing what is written. Genesis 15:6 makes no mention of forgiveness of sins or the cross. That verse is about the righteousness of faith.

Once again I ask, why does the Bible not contain even one mention of the LORD Jesus Christ using the term "grace" during His entire earthly ministry to Israel?

--RD

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Right Divider,

It is "Churchianity". It is the fairy tale that most of the so-called Christian churches teach today (at least the fairly orthodox ones).

• Simply "preaching Christ" is NOT preaching the gospel of the grace of God; Paul preached the cross... Philip did not.
• Philip was preaching the same thing that Peter and the eleven where preaching.
• Peter and the eleven were the twelve apostles for the twelve tribes of Israel and that means something.
• Philip was preaching this BEFORE Paul was called and given his ministry.
• Philip was NOT preaching to gentiles (Samaritans are not gentiles).
• Nowhere do you see "the gospel of the name of Jesus Christ" in the Bible, you got that somewhere else.
• Have you not noticed that the CROSS is completely missing from Act 8?
• How could something as central to the gospel of the grace of God as the cross be completely missing from presenting the gospel?

I do not know how you come to the conclusion that Peter in Acts 2 and 3 did not preach the cross of Christ. Also “things concerning the Name of Jesus” includes the crucifixion as it teaches his death by means of crucifixion, his burial and resurrection. The fact that the Samaritans were baptised after Philip’s preaching shows that they not only believed this, but their baptism was an identification by faith in Christ’s death and resurrection.

Philip in Acts 8 preached to the Eunuch from Isaiah 53. He certainly taught the Cross as Isaiah 53 is one of the most thorough prophecies concerning Jesus’ suffering and death.
Acts 8:27-39 (KJV): 27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, 28 † Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. 29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. 32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: 33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. 34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayst. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. 39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

This "two major elements gospel" that you describe here must have been found in some man-made writing, because it's not from the Bible.

Acts 8:5-6,12 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Luke gives a summary of what Philip preached, which firstly Luke describes as preaching Christ unto them. What this entailed was preaching two major elements, “Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ”. In each category are certain “things”. Each of us could compile a list of items making up the “things” in each of these two major elements or categories. You have not responded to the same terms used of Paul’s preaching in Acts 28.

The gospel of the kingdom has TWELVE apostles sitting on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of Israel.

Luke 22:29-30 (AKJV/PCE)​

(22:29) And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; (22:30) That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. ​

This will happen just like the LORD Jesus Christ said that it will. Most of Churchianity has turned this kingdom into mythology and you seem to agree.

Please do not lump me in with most of Churchianity. I believe in the return of Jesus, the conversion of a major portion of the Jews in the land of Israel, the re-establishment of the throne of David in Jerusalem with Jesus ruling for 1000 years as King-Priest, and the Apostles sitting upon 12 thrones.

The Samaritans were still part of Israel, regardless of the diluted heritage.

You only have to stretch this concept, (and it is obvious that most of the Samaritans were from elsewhere and not Jews), when you need to have a sharp distinction such as MAD.

You just continue to read things INTO the Bible instead of just believing what is written. Genesis 15:6 makes no mention of forgiveness of sins or the cross. That verse is about the righteousness of faith.

But this is used by Paul in Romans 4 to verify what he has stated in Romans 3 that forgiveness of sins comes by faith in the crucifixion of Christ. To be accounted righteous teaches that our sins are forgiven.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Right Divider]

Greetings again Right Divider, I do not know how you come to the conclusion that Peter in Acts 2 and 3 did not preach the cross of Christ.

Please show us all where Peter preached the cross as GOOD NEWS anywhere in Acts 1-5.

I can see that your indoctrination into Churchianity is complete and totally has its hold upon you. I will leave it up to someone else to waste their time with you.

--RD

 

[oatmeal]

Then you're not justified from all things per Acts 13:39. "Process salvation" is really probation.

How do you define process salvation?

When a person is born again, it is an instantaneous process

Comparing spiritual rebirth to natural birth is useful

A newborn is complete, but there is a growth process involved both physically and mentally for the child to utilize all its potential

Likewise with the new birth. Getting saved is the first step, using that salvation according to the instructions brings on further blessings

 

[Right Divider]

How do you define process salvation?

When a person is born again, it is an instantaneous process

Comparing spiritual rebirth to natural birth is useful

A newborn is complete, but there is a growth process involved both physically and mentally for the child to utilize all its potential

Likewise with the new birth. Getting saved is the first step, using that salvation according to the instructions brings on further blessings

So you believe that a person gets "more saved" with spiritual growth?

Eternal life is going from death to life and that happens all at once.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Right Divider,

Please show us all where Peter preached the cross as GOOD NEWS anywhere in Acts 1-5.

Acts 2:22-39 (KJV): 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
I could similarly quote the full text of Peter’s speech in Acts 3 and highlight the relevant verses that speak of the crucifixion of Christ, his presence now in heaven and his anticipated return to bring times of refreshment and restoration.

I can see that your indoctrination into Churchianity is complete and totally has its hold upon you. I will leave it up to someone else to waste their time with you.

I agree that we have covered the subject adequately and there is not much more to say. I appreciate your time and effort.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Right Divider]

Greetings again Right Divider, Acts 2:22-39 (KJV): 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
I could similarly quote the full text of Peter’s speech in Acts 3 and highlight the relevant verses that speak of the crucifixion of Christ, his presence now in heaven and his anticipated return to bring times of refreshment and restoration.
I agree that we have covered the subject adequately and there is not much more to say. I appreciate your time and effort.

Kind regards
Trevor

Trevor, "mentioning" the crucifixion is NOT the same thing as preaching it as GOOD NEWS.

Peter "mentioned" the cross as a murder indictment against his people.

Acts 2:23-24 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:23) Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: (2:24) Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
​

That is NOT "good news". That is NOT the preaching of the cross per Paul.

The people did NOT say "what good news!"

Acts 2:37 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:37) ¶ Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
​

They were ashamed, as they should have been. They were not rejoicing in having the sins forgiven BY the cross.

I truly hope that you open your eyes someday.

--RD

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Right Divider,

Trevor, "mentioning" the crucifixion is NOT the same thing as preaching it as GOOD NEWS.
Peter "mentioned" the cross as a murder indictment against his people.

Acts 2:23-24 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:23) Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: (2:24) Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
​

That is NOT "good news". That is NOT the preaching of the cross per Paul.
The people did NOT say "what good news!"

Acts 2:37 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:37) ¶ Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
​

They were ashamed, as they should have been. They were not rejoicing in having the sins forgiven BY the cross.
I truly hope that you open your eyes someday.

But 3000 repented and were baptised and this indicates that their sins were forgiven. Jesus on the cross pleaded with God His Father to forgive them, because they knew not the full implications of what they were doing, and now this prayer is answered for these 3000. This is good news, and they received the blessing of forgiveness.

I decided after reading Acts 3 to post this and underline a few relevant aspects, especially as I did not quote Peter’s final appeal to them to repent and be baptised in Acts 2, surely the GOOD NEWS concerning salvation in and through the CROSS of Christ.
Acts 3:12-26 (KJV): 12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? 13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. 14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; 15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. 16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all. 17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. 18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Surely verse 26 indicates that they were recipients of the good news concerning the cross as they were blessed and forgiven.

Kind regards
Trevor